SD/WM or Inv/WM


Finduilas

 

Posted

hello, im lookin at trying out a tanker and i think iver narrowed my choices down to the following, sd/wm or inv/wm. i plan on grouping as much as possible. are these decent choices? whats the strengths and weaknesses of each? thanks in advance. i looked around and didnt really see other posts.


 

Posted

Inv goes from resist -> defense, while SD mainly is defense and can increase his resist (one with shield). Once inv is in melee range, his defense is lovely high. Inv is primairy based on high SL resist and ok'ish resist/def against elementals, using his aura to increase this massive. SD is pure locationbased, in certain situations giving the upperhand.

My major annoyancy? The stupid mez-clicky of SD. So freaking annoying to get your attack chain being interupted by the clicky (i have to set it auto, else i'm sure i gonna forget).

SD is a bit more offensive/team based. They get lovely stats from other teammates, and give some nice defense back. Their aura increase their dmg, while their shield charge is lovely damage. It lacks healing though, but since u defense based, aid self or relying on your team is possible. Inv can be slightly squishy if you fight a elemental AV and you have no other mob around to boost your defense, but dull pain and its unstoppable tier9 really help alot. (or just pop a few purple).

Personaly, i would pick Inv. I love the solid set, their aura is very strong on taunt and the tohit is great bonus. Both are slightly heavy on endurance, so slotting for end-reds in both cases is prefered. Since inv already has a nice base resist and good setup for defence, going for the IO wonders is great on this set. Even if you defense gets trashed, you still got a huge SL resist to back it up.


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(50)MaceX/(50)Encore

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Posted

I'm inclined to agree with going invul. Shield is awesome, don't get me wrong. But if you're planning on staying in teams all the time, invul will be much more reliable for a "main tank" role.


 

Posted

thanks for the replies, after looking around a bit, which of the primaries is the cheapest to get to the soft cap? not just out of these 2 but out of all them. this is my first hero so i won't really have much money to work with at first.


 

Posted

The big difference between the two when it comes to soft-capping defense is that Invul has typed defense and Shields has positional defense.

Pool powers like CJ and Weave work equally well with both, but when you're slotting for set IO bonuses typed bonuses are generally available with 3-4 slots in a set, whereas with positional bonuses you need 5 or 6 slots of the same set.

This means that with typed bonuses it's easier to avoid the one or two enhancements in a set that are very rare and expensive. If necessary, you can fill in the slotting with a cheap set or common IOs.

I haven't slotted a Shield tank to the def soft-cap, but I'm in the midst of re-slotting a SR scrapper, and let me tell you, those last couple of slots of Touch of Death and Obliteration are downright painful.

So although I haven't made a direct comparison of the two, my guess is that it would be easier to do a Invul soft-cap "on the cheap" than it would for Shields for that reason.

Evidence to the contrary from experienced Shield tankers is of course welcome!


My Characters

Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012

 

Posted

Generally, all of the most sought after defense bonus sets, and even many of the minor ones, cannot currently be bought in the auction house within a reasonable time from the influence dropped from defeating enemies in normal play. Unless you farm or play the manipulation game, you're currently SOL.

They will have to be bought with merits, and that is going to take some time, although it will take less time than buying them with influence. The only way you will put yourself in the running is by getting a lucky purple drop you can't use and auctioning it, or getting even luckier with random rolls from merits or tickets: and that obviously is not something you can rely on. Remember, there's pet damage and sniper stuff in the task force pool too.

The best way to look at Wentworth's / Black Market right now is like the Cathedral of Pain trial: something that's theoretically part of the game but really isn't implemented right now.



<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

 

Posted

I HATE THIS FREAKING FORUM. Wrote an entire post, stats, numbers, timed out.. its gone

Oh well, in short:

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Reactive armor afaik aint that expensive, kinetic combat is cheap also and is a great filler for your 'u have to pick that power' slotting. Along with Weave and CJ, 44% defense on SL and a lovely 30ish on the elements. This i think should be higher, since Mid's doesnt do great on Invincibility.

Minor note, combatnumbers go crazy on invincibility, mine nonstop jumping up and down between 25 and 38%, so i not exactly sure what your defense would be

Note, i never checked prices of reactive armor, i may be off on the price big time.. for that, sorry


50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinergyX_EU View Post
Reactive armor afaik aint that expensive, kinetic combat is cheap also and is a great filler for your 'u have to pick that power' slotting. Along with Weave and CJ, 44% defense on SL and a lovely 30ish on the elements. This i think should be higher, since Mid's doesnt do great on Invincibility.
At least in the NA servers, Kinetic Combat is sky high for a set that tops out at level 35 - except for the knockdown proc, which is fortunately avoided. I've seen the top end recipes go for as high as 18 - 20 million. AFAIAC that makes them merits-only.

I wouldn't have them but for the fact that I have defenders and controllers that are levelling up with task forces too, and who get SOs and generic IOs and use the merits to buy things for my melees.



<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by meaux View Post
hello, im lookin at trying out a tanker and i think iver narrowed my choices down to the following, sd/wm or inv/wm. i plan on grouping as much as possible. are these decent choices? whats the strengths and weaknesses of each? thanks in advance. i looked around and didnt really see other posts.
Invul/WM, for survivability (without IO's). Shield for more damage (survivability+ with IO's).

When it comes to me, I'm always going to say Invul.....unless Granite comes into play, then I'm torn like Rip.


"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"

"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."

 

Posted

I thought that all hero-side AHs were on the same server, so if it's scarce for NA, it's scarce for EU.

And Sinergy must be confusing Kinetic Combat with another set, because two of the four KC you need to get the bonus are indeed very hard to find and expensive, especially at the upper levels. (Just for the record, I consider anything more than 5 million or so to be expensive, and anything more than 10 million, very expensive. Obviously, I'm not one of the people paying hundreds of millions for purples and PvP sets.)

That said, you can soft-cap Invul with sets that are relatively inexpensive and available. Reactive Armor, Smashing Haymaker, Mocking Beratement and Eradication are all pretty reasonable. (You'd have to stay away from a couple of enhancements in the Erad set, but you only need three of the six.) Even Blessing of the Zephyr isn't too bad if you avoid the -KB IO. Probably the most expensive 'must have' is the Steadfast +Def, and IMO, it's worth saving for.

A lot of the cost of my Invul IO builds are what I'd consider "nice to have but not essential", like the Kismet +ToHit, the Perf Shifter +End, and slotting GotA or LotG in the defense powers. If you use cheap sets or common IOs for powers where you're not getting a defense bonus, my guess is that a soft-cap Invul build would cost around 50 million. That may seem like a lot, but a level 50 can earn that pretty fast between regular influence gain and selling unneeded drops.


My Characters

Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012

 

Posted

Im currently running a SD/WM, and i got to my soft cap at about level 35. Look at the bonuses for Multi Strike... now put 6 of those in your 4 PBAoEs. That is over 7% to Melee and AoE. and its a cheap set, as nothing in it is Silver-Gold/B-C-D pool rolls. 4 slot your Def toggles with Serendipity, going for the 4 that give Def over something like End/rech, or just End. should be put in Weave, Melee toggle, Ranged Toggle. add in combat jumping, and phalanx fighting.. if you six slot Mako's Bite in two of your single target attacks, you should be near the cap for ranged. Or you could slot Blessing of a Zephyr in your travel power... or perhaps grab Maneuvers and 4 slot it with Serendipity. Adds to the survival of your team with even more defense on top of your Grant Cover. Now.. Bronze Roll in the AE if you use it, At the level 15-29 level ranges, until you get a Steadfast Res/Def+3%. Feel free to sell the impervium armors or the like you get for Inf on Wentworths, you could use it im sure. or the Knockback protection IOs even.

E: Im frikken tired and i know its rambling =p


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heraclea View Post
At least in the NA servers, Kinetic Combat is sky high for a set that tops out at level 35 - except for the knockdown proc, which is fortunately avoided. I've seen the top end recipes go for as high as 18 - 20 million. AFAIAC that makes them merits-only.
You're indeed right, i was checking the wrong prices (NA and EU have shared AH).

In the world of positional softcap, 18-20mil is a plain joke. Everyone and his dog are adviced to go softcap, on any AT, but nobody every mention the prices. The more people that want it (demand only goes up), the higher prices it will be. As AE inf farming continues, a 'mortal' should not consider softcap.

I already made a topic once about the def issue, devs dont seem to care.


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Posted

Hm, have to check my build at home, but my SD/WM Tanker has 50% defense to all positions with Weave/CJ and I did not slot any Obliteration at all. It was a very cheap build. I have one Mako Set slotted and some frankenslotting from Pulverizing Fistcuffs and Pounding Slugfest, the rest is Multi Strikes. I have the Unique IO though.


Originally Posted by Megajoule
We're being invaded. Again. This time, instead of aliens, zombies, or eyeballs with teeth, it's the marching band.

 

Posted

I've just started a SD/WM Tanker myself, and am currently planning for this cheapskate build:

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1,401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: War Mace
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Arctic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- S'dpty-Def(A), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(3), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(3), ResDam-I(5), ResDam-I(5)
Level 1: Bash -- F'dSmite-Acc/Dmg(A), F'dSmite-Dmg/EndRdx(15), F'dSmite-Dmg/Rchg(15), F'dSmite-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(17), F'dSmite-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21)
Level 2: Pulverize -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(17), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19)
Level 4: True Grit -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(7), Heal-I(7), ResDam-I(13), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(13)
Level 6: Jawbreaker -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(23), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), F'dSmite-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 8: Battle Agility -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(9), RedFtn-Def(11), RedFtn-EndRdx(11), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(37), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 10: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 14: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 16: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(46)
Level 18: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(21), P'Shift-End%(27), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(29)
Level 22: Clobber -- F'dSmite-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(29), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(33)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(33), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(34), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(34), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 28: Whirling Mace -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(33), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(36), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(36), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 30: Phalanx Fighting -- Ksmt-ToHit+(A)
Level 32: Grant Cover -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 35: Shatter -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(39), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(39), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(40), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 38: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(39), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(40), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(42), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(42), GSFC-Build%(45)
Level 41: Crowd Control -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(42), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(43), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(43), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 44: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(48), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(48), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48), RedFtn-Def(50), RedFtn-EndRdx(50)
Level 47: Block of Ice -- Acc-I(A)
Level 49: Shiver -- Acc-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet



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There are only a half-dozen or so recipes going for 4-7 million, a few more in the 1 mil range and I don't intend to pay more than 500k for the vast majority of this stuff. And this was looking at the last 5 on WWs just now. Any pricey salvage I'll just pay for with AE tickets and with a bit of luck I'll land something juicy and expensive to sell with a few Merit rolls from doing a TF or three while levelling.


 

Posted

Not bad, Ferrus. Although I wouldn't consider a full set of Touch of Death and 5 Scirocco's Dervish as part of a 'bargain build', it looks like you don't need them to reach the soft-cap. I haven't priced a full set of Gaussian's lately, but some of them might be a bit pricey.

I must admit though, that I have a hard time committing 6 slots to a def or res power to get a bonus, since you should be able to get by with 4 slots.


My Characters

Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012

 

Posted

Here's what I would consider to be a fairly cheap soft-capped Invul/WM build with pretty standard power selections. It's soft-capped for everything but F/C defense. I picked Serendipity for the defense powers because they're cheap, and have modest--but useful--set bonuses.

I even threw in a couple of inexpensive procs with leftover slots.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: War Mace
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(3), RctvArm-ResDam:40(5)
Level 1: Bash -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg:35(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx:35(15), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg:35(15), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(17), F'dSmite-Acc/Dmg:40(21)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- Heal-I:50(A), Heal-I:50(5), RechRdx-I:50(9), RechRdx-I:50(17), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:50(19)
Level 4: Jawbreaker -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg:35(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx:35(7), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg:35(7), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(13), F'dSmite-Acc/Dmg:40(13)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I:50(A)
Level 8: Unyielding -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(9), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(11), RctvArm-ResDam:40(11)
Level 10: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt:50(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rng:50(19), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg:50(23), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(29), Mocking-Acc/Rchg:50(37)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 16: Health -- Heal-I:40(A), Heal-I:50(46), Heal-I:50(46)
Level 18: Invincibility -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx:40(A), S'dpty-Def/Rchg:40(23), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:40(25), S'dpty-Def:40(25)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(21), EndMod-I:50(27)
Level 22: Clobber -- S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(A), S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg:35(27), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx:35(29), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg:35(31), F'dSmite-Acc/Dmg:40(31)
Level 24: Resist Physical Damage -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(33), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(34), RctvArm-ResDam:40(45)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx:40(A), S'dpty-Def/Rchg:40(33), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:40(34), S'dpty-Def:40(34)
Level 28: Whirling Mace -- Erad-Dmg:30(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(33), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(36), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx:50(36), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(36), Zinger-Dam%:50(37)
Level 30: Build Up -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(31)
Level 32: Boxing -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg:35(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx:35(43), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg:35(48), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(50)
Level 35: Shatter -- Erad-Dmg:30(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(37), Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(39), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(39), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx:50(40)
Level 38: Crowd Control -- Erad-Dmg:30(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(40), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(40), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx:50(42), ExStrk-Dam%:20(43)
Level 41: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(42), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(42), RctvArm-ResDam:40(43)
Level 44: Weave -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx:40(A), S'dpty-Def/Rchg:40(45), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:40(45), S'dpty-Def:40(46)
Level 47: Resist Energies -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(A), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg:50(48), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(48), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(50)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

  • 18% Defense(Smashing)
  • 18% Defense(Lethal)
  • 9.25% Defense(Fire)
  • 9.25% Defense(Cold)
  • 17.4% Defense(Energy)
  • 17.4% Defense(Negative)
  • 3% Defense(Psionic)
  • 10.5% Defense(Melee)
  • 10.2% Defense(Ranged)
  • 6.13% Defense(AoE)
  • 7.2% Max End
  • 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 126.5 HP (6.75%) HitPoints
  • MezResist(Held) 2.75%
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 13.2%
  • MezResist(Sleep) 4.95%
  • 12% (0.94 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 5% RunSpeed




My Characters

Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finduilas View Post
I must admit though, that I have a hard time committing 6 slots to a def or res power to get a bonus, since you should be able to get by with 4 slots.
I never plan on devoting more slots to a power than I would using a SO/generic build in order to claim set bonuses.

Most attacks worth taking get five or six slots. But I seldom if ever devote more than four or five slots to a defensive toggle, three max for a passive - at least unless they have multiple aspects to slot up.



<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

 

Posted

Oh dear, I used an slightly older and pricier version. I have another cheaper version somewhere... Yep. Edited my earlier post. No ToDs, no Sciroccos. Priciest things on it is the Performance Shifter proc, the Kismet +tohit and the Steafast +3% def. The Kismet is entirely optional, but I hate missing and it looks like I might be able to get one for 2-3 mil.

The only thing I'm not sure about is End. Swinging all those AoEs isn't easy on the blue.

Oh, and the two powers from the Ice Epic is more concept than anything, you could just as easily replace them for SJ and OWtS

EDIT: I like that INV/WM build. I hadn't considered dropping Pulverize, but it looks like you can get a decent ST chain without it. That would free up some slots and a power pick on my SD tank... *goes back to tinker on Mids*

Quote:
I never plan on devoting more slots to a power than I would using a SO/generic build in order to claim set bonuses.

Most attacks worth taking get five or six slots. But I seldom if ever devote more than four or five slots to a defensive toggle, three max for a passive - at least unless they have multiple aspects to slot up.
What I usually do is pick powers, put 5 slots into all attacks, 3/4 into defensives and then use the left over slots to reach whatever bonuses I need. Usually this involves 6-slotting things I'd rather not, but hey, what can you do.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heraclea View Post
The only way you will put yourself in the running is by getting a lucky purple drop you can't use and auctioning it, or getting even luckier with random rolls from merits or tickets: and that obviously is not something you can rely on.
Happened to me! I don't even remember which purples now but I got 150,000,000 for one and 75,000,000 for another. Who says there is no end game content? You give up the hero biz and become a multimillionaire like Ozymandias in "Watchmen"!

Has everybody added the new Crash MacTavish action figure with Super Ego action to their collection?


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"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull

"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat