Warshade Newbie

Hi guys,

Im working on my first Warshade and I'm currently at lvl 28 and I wanted to know if I will generally see an increase in dmg output (whether single target or aoe). I'd like to mainly run in human form (if possible) with the switching to nova as a blaster if needed. I'm just getting the hang of unchain essence but usually my teams have all baddies pretty much killed before I can use it to its benefit. It just seems like right now, other than the couple of attacks I have (shadow bolt, grav snare and grav well), I'm just standing there while the team kills the mobs and I'm just left to syphon out the leftovers. Does it get better? Will I eventually be able to do some mass killing? Any thoughts? Suggestions? Specific guides and/or builds I should look at?

Thanks!!

Honestly, restricting yourself to human form, "your" damage will not improve, your pets will add to your damage output alot but the only damaging power you really have to look forward to after 28 is quasar and its on a very long timer.

Your human form damage scaler is roughly half what it is in squid form and even below what it is in dwarf. This is the main reason I advocate for Tri-Form builds and attempt to steer people away from human only or mainly human builds.

Careful slotting will mean you get all your good human powers including the pets, and are able to slot them fairly well (4-6 slots each), so your only really loosing the redundant human blasts and things I personaly believe to be of little use like the snare and Orbiting Debt, which are overshadowed by your squid form attacks anyways.

If youre making a concept type build such as human only thats cool, so long as your aware (and willing to admit) your going to have a less able build because of it.

You can set up a bind to help with targetting a defeated foe for unchained essence. In all though, I agree with Obsidian. You'll be hurting yourself not going tri-form. Nova is for damage, and dwarf isn't bad in damage anymore, as well as breaking mezes and pretty solid defense I find I use both a lot. I only drop into human for buffs, large attacks and to summon pets. The human form damage isn't that great. Human nova could work for you, but you'll probably be spending most of the time in nova, not human.

Read some of the threads about warshade binds. There are some in there to help you target defeated foes so you can use unchained essence more easily.

These guys here are absolutely wrong in that "human form damage isn't that great." It is, and is very respectable. I wouldn't go as far as to say that "human form is the best", but saying that "it isn't that great" is a very naive and uninformed statement, and would cause me to wonder exactly how much experience one has at actually building and playing an all-human form. Not much, I gather, from that statement.

In addition, he has already stated that he would prefer to play in human form. I would like to see some "numbers" from Obsidian on the most effective human-form build, since that is what is what he is asking for. Not beratement on his playstyle of choice.

That isn't what I like to encourage. Sure, you can mention "It might be a little better for you if you pick dwarf", but you are offering that as the "only" solution to playing in all-human form. The best build for an "all-human" build is to NOT have a "all-human" build? What the F***, guys?

Wrong, wrong, wrong, and more wrong.

"The One"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..

He asked about a large damage improvement and doing mass killing. I'll admit I'm not an expert in human form builds, but that's going to be easier with a dual or triform build. It's not that you can't make an effective warshade going all human.

Please post your recommended human warshade build how to do some 'mass killing'. Or if it's mostly purples, two builds. One reasonably priced.

I think in this case the advice about Nova being able to bring greater damage was well within the limits of the question.

Human form builds can be ok (And AlienOne is a good person to speak to if that is your thing), but if damage is your goal over playstyle then I would always go for mostly Nova.

The great thing about Warshades that tips the hand towards tri-form builds is that the attack powers from human form are replicated in Nova, but Nova causes more damage with them, the control powers in human form last long enough to switch to Nova and blast, the self buffing powers (Sunless Mire/Eclipse) last long enough to carry into the forms, and the pets are on a timer so last through form switches too.

In general everything you can do in human form you can also do with a tri-form build, plus you have the benefit of extra damage in Nova. You just have to enjoy the playstyle where you do a bit of shapeshifting, but I fully think it is worth it.

As Obsidian said the only thing you are going to get now to improve damage (Aside from the nuke; Quasar) is Dark Extraction, but that technically isn't your damage since it is pet damage. You will however get more survivable once you hit 38 and get Eclipse, allowing you to be braver in your pursuit of damage.

If you still decide you want to be human mostly I am happy to have a look at a build for you, but as discussed in another thread a few minutes back, there is a drawback to starting a fight in human then going to Nova because you end up with downtime between fights are you ready your human form again.

In conclusion: I would stick with human only (+dwarf for mez) - less damage but maybe more your thing style wise, or go tri-form - all out on the damage front without necessarily giving up too much from the human form.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

Great debate guys!! I appreciate everyone's thoughts and comments! I can see the point of tri-form and actually planned on going tri-form before changing my mind and deciding that human only was the way I thought I wanted to take it.

That said, if I throw nova in to the mix, would you typically to try to soft cap ranged defense? And if I do go with nova then I'd say I would take dwarf too only b/c I'd be dropping toggles anyways and wouldnt make much sense to focus on many human form def/resist toggles since I'd be constantly shape shifting (at least I wouldnt think so but Im still learning), well maybe except for shadow cloak b/c it looks so cool!!

Although I would love a human only build, I'd prefer more of a damage machine than anything. I will just need to learn how to shape shift efficiently. Also, how would you set up the human form if going tri-form build? I mean you need some type of defense and/or resistance if you are running in to a mob as human before switching. I'd just hate to run in and faceplant while trying to fire off eclipse and sunless mire before switching to dwarf.

I'll have to search for those bindsd regarding

Maybe I'm the only one that saw this or maybe I misread it, but he only has 3 attacks in human atm? If that's correct, that's probably the biggest reason for feeling like he's not doing much. At the very least, pick up dark detonation, but I'd also get ebon eye, shadow blast, and possibly essence drain but I'm not sure how needed the heal is since I don't particularly like human form. The dmg is not going to increase very much more unless attacks that have already opened up are taken.

But honestly, I'm not sure what his intentions are for being a ws. Is it for dmg, control, versatility, etc? He says he would like to stay in human most of the time, but also to use nova for blasting when needed. Imo, that really doesn't make any sense. If you take nova, more likely than not you will be using it most of the time for the dmg. If you don't use it most of the time, then it really shouldn't have a power pick/slots wasted on it and just build up human attacks more.

I didn't level as human only and have only played a few missions w/ it in the 40s, so this may not be a very good build, but I would try something similar to this up to 32. May need some end red. in attacks, but I'm really not sure how needed that is if you have stamina and stygian circle (or if stamina is really needed).

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 31 Science Warshade
Primary Power Set: Umbral Blast
Secondary Power Set: Umbral Aura
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Ebon Eye -- Acc(A), Dmg(3), Dmg(3), Dmg(5)
Level 1: Absorption -- ResDam(A)
Level 2: Gravimetric Snare -- Acc(A), Dmg(5), Dmg(7), Dmg(7)
Level 4: Orbiting Death -- Acc(A), Dmg(9), Dmg(9), EndRdx(11), EndRdx(11), EndRdx(13)
Level 6: Shadow Blast -- Acc(A), Dmg(13), Dmg(15), Dmg(15)
Level 8: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx(A)
Level 12: Sunless Mire -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(17), RechRdx(17), Dmg(19)
Level 14: Dark Detonation -- Acc(A), Dmg(19), Dmg(21), Dmg(21), RechRdx(31), EndRdx(31)
Level 16: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 18: Gravity Well -- Acc(A), Dmg(23), Dmg(23), Dmg(25), RechRdx(31)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod(A)
Level 22: Stygian Circle -- EndRdx(A)
Level 24: Essence Drain -- Acc(A), Heal(25), Dmg(27)
Level 26: Unchain Essence -- Dmg(A), Dmg(27), RechRdx(29), RechRdx(29)
Level 28: Inky Aspect -- Acc(A)
Level 30: Gravitic Emanation -- Acc(A)
Level 32: Dark Extraction -- RechRdx(A)

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperT That said, if I throw nova in to the mix, would you typically to try to soft cap ranged defense? And if I do go with nova then I'd say I would take dwarf too only b/c I'd be dropping toggles anyways and wouldnt make much sense to focus on many human form def/resist toggles since I'd be constantly shape shifting (at least I wouldnt think so but Im still learning), well maybe except for shadow cloak b/c it looks so cool!! Although I would love a human only build, I'd prefer more of a damage machine than anything. I will just need to learn how to shape shift efficiently. Also, how would you set up the human form if going tri-form build? I mean you need some type of defense and/or resistance if you are running in to a mob as human before switching. I'd just hate to run in and faceplant while trying to fire off eclipse and sunless mire before switching to dwarf. I'll have to search for those bindsd regarding

Myself, I really like having about 30% ranged defense (35% on my build) w/ nova as my main form, but until 47 I didn't have any def and really didn't have much trouble. As far as toggles go, I might would recommend the s/l resist shield since that's the most common dmg types, but after you get eclipse you can easily cap all your resists and with only 3 recharge reductions in it, it's only down for about a min.

There is a power available to you if you are afraid of the dmg you are going to take in human form when trying to get eclipse off that works really well. Nebulous form can let you jump into anything and take 0 dmg. If you pay attention to the animations, you can take the alpha, drop out of nebulous, fire off eclipse, and take pretty minimal dmg. Or even jumping in w/ dwarf first helps, but I prefer to take no dmg before eclipse than reduced dmg.

Here's a pretty quick triform build if you are interested.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 33 Science Warshade
Primary Power Set: Umbral Blast
Secondary Power Set: Umbral Aura
Power Pool: Speed

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Shadow Bolt -- Acc(A)
Level 1: Absorption -- ResDam(A)
Level 2: Ebon Eye -- Acc(A)
Level 4: Orbiting Death -- Acc(A)
Level 6: Dark Nova -- EndMod(A)
Level 8: Shadow Blast -- Acc(A)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx(A)
Level 12: Sunless Mire -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(21), RechRdx(21)
Level 14: Shadow Cloak -- DefBuff(A)
Level 16: Super Speed -- Run(A)
Level 18: Gravity Well -- Acc(A)
Level 20: Black Dwarf -- ResDam(A)
Level 22: Stygian Circle -- EndRdx(A)
Level 24: Nebulous Form -- EndRdx(A)
Level 26: Unchain Essence -- Dmg(A), Dmg(33), Dmg(33)
Level 28: Gravitic Emanation -- Acc(A)
Level 30: Dark Detonation -- Acc(A)
Level 32: Dark Extraction -- RechRdx(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Dark Sustenance
Level 1: Shadow Step -- EndRdx(A)
Level 10: Shadow Recall -- EndRdx(A)
------------
Level 6: Dark Nova Bolt -- Acc(A), Dmg(3), Dmg(5)
Level 6: Dark Nova Blast -- Acc(A), Dmg(7), Dmg(7), Dmg(9)
Level 6: Dark Nova Emanation -- Acc(A), Dmg(11), Dmg(11), Dmg(13), RechRdx(13), EndRdx(15)
Level 6: Dark Nova Detonation -- Acc(A), Dmg(3), Dmg(15), Dmg(17), RechRdx(17), EndRdx(19)
Level 20: Black Dwarf Strike -- Acc(A), Dmg(23), Dmg(25)
Level 20: Black Dwarf Smite -- Acc(A), Dmg(25), Dmg(27), EndRdx(27)
Level 20: Black Dwarf Mire -- Acc(A), Dmg(29), Dmg(29), EndRdx(31), RechRdx(31), RechRdx(31)
Level 20: Black Dwarf Drain -- Acc(A), EndRdx(5), Dmg(19), Heal(23)
Level 20: Black Dwarf Step -- EndRdx(A)
Level 20: Black Dwarf Antagonize -- Acc(A)

I know a few people who aim for softcapped ranged defence but on a Warshade +recharge is your friend (As is hasten).

At 28 you haven't yet seen the glory that is Eclipse, but that one power alone, unslotted and cast in the middle of 10 mobs will hardcap your resistance (At 85%) to ALL damage, including psi. The need for ranged defence on top of that is very low.

Eclipse can be made perma with a fairly middle of the road budget (It's not cheap, but it won't take forever to get) and from that point you are really unlucky to die or have done something wrong (I still die, but every time I hit the floor I know I could have avoided it easily).

If you were to take the forms (And regardless if you take Nova I would always take Dwarf because that is your only mez protection) then I would drop as many toggles as you can. I have made room for Shadow Cloak and a few travel powers, but those are really out of combat toggles, so they are ok.

Additionally Shadow Cloak is the key power to not faceplanting before you get your Eclipse off, either run in (Or teleport in) to a mob and hit Eclipse, you will be softcapped before most things hit you, I typically get one hit full in the face and the rest bouce off.

Any time you don't have Eclipse up and running then you can either use human form; and even a tri-form can use Gravatic Emination > Gravity Well > Unchain Essence to control a whole mob. Or you could just stay in Nova and avoid as much aggro as you can, dropping to Dwarf if you do get too much.

As to how I would set up human form the way I do mine is I completely ignore any power that is a duplicate of what the forms have (IE: No blasts) and you do have to be careful on your choices because you can only spare enough slots to make 5 or 6 human powers truly effective (More if you lightly slot Dwarf). The key powers to slot in human form are:

Sunless Mire - Slot for recharge rather than damage because as a tri-former you use it to increase the damage of Nova form, the damage from the power itself can be impressive, but is dwarfed by Nova's damage.

Stygian Circle - This means you never have any downtime again for either health or endurance

Eclipse - Slot for recharge and then resistance/accuracy. Getting this perma or close to perma is such a joy.

Gravatic Emination - One of the best control powers in the game, a fast activating cone stun.

Gravity Well - A melee attack that also holds, but if you slot it like a melee attack it causes sick damage, and can be used to 1 shot a minion prior to Unchain Essence.

Unchain Essence - A power I recently realised I misunderstood, I thought it was a low damage long recharge AoE, but it is actually a mag3 AoE sun power and therefore is great!

Dark Extraction - I have read these pets are second only to fire imps for damage (And I don't know if that was counting just one of them or not), and you can get 2 or 3 out at once with enough recharge (I have exactly perma-hasten on my build and if I was quick on the button am .1 second away from having 3 perma)

Not all those powers need 5 or 6 slotting, but if you get them slotted (I don't think I have left anything out) then you get the full utility from human form, plus the mass damage from Nova.

PS: You can add Quasar to the list of human power, it is a great nuke when you consider Sunless Mire and Black Dwarf mire get you very close to the damage cap. But some people hate nukes so I left it off. Still Black Dwarf Mire > Sunless Mire > Quasar > Pop a blue > Stygian Circle and you are back to full health/endurance so as far as nukes go it is a good one and you can recover instantly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

Now those latter responses were MUCH more helpful...

Diran, I'm in the middle of putting together a "So, you want to play an all-Human form Warshade?" guide (with videos and everything), and I'll be posting that as soon as "humanly" (har, har) possible...

"The One"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..

You guys have been great and I appreciate everyone's feedback! I apologize if some of my thoughts have either been vague or contradictory. I guess I really need to take my WS further up in lvl to really see what I like and/or need in order to determine the right build for me. I guess what I didnt realize is that eclipse benefits all forms, right? So hitting it in human form then switching to nova still leaves you the high resistance lvls? That definitely clears a few things up for me then. So I really should focus on recharge instead of adding defense when looking at incorporating set bonuses, huh?

Yeah I agree that if I stay human only that I need to take more attacks but I guess I thought between dark extraction (which I dont have yet) and that dead body exploder attack that would be my "bread and butter." I gotta search for that dead body finder bind everyone mentioned.

Came back and a lot of good responses. Recharge is the way to go, unfortunately it is rather expensive. Getting some ranged defense is rather cheap (to 20-30%) which should help your nova form quite a bit and you can save up for the recharge sets if you aren't currently rich. I don't really have much to add to advice you received above.

I have been playing around in Mids, but haven't come up with a human warshade build I like yet. :-/

QR -

A viable alternative that used to be employed quite often, was the "staged build" (my term, my search-fu is not strong) where you use one build from lvl A to B, and another from B to C, C to D, etc as desired. The easiest example of this is using and slotting nova form from levels 6 to 23, at which time you respec and move all of those slots into dwarf and turtle your way from 23 to 39, at which time you respec and take advantage of your tier 9-ish power. Obviously, you don't want to invest in IO sets until you are in the final stage, but regular IOs, or frankenslotting, will do you quite nicely as you go. The idea behind it is: you will always be starved for slots, so why not focus your slotting in places it will be most effective at a given level. The reason for using dwarf form from 23 to 39 is two-fold: first, since i13, your damage output is much more respectable; and second, particularly in the 20s, you CAN make a better tank than some tankers (as they are missing quite of few powers still at that level).

You know Alien... maybe that's the picture you should show Obsidian so that he can realize how much INF you've put into your build and how the set bonuses actually supplement your Human-only 'Shade.