Warshade Newbie

I was not doubting the verasity of your post at all, just found your switching builds interesting.

Oh, ok... Didn't know that I actually HAD a tri-form build when we had all those discussions before, did 'ya? No, I don't hate tri-form builds... I find them very useful, actually... I also switch to my tri-form build every time I want to do a "guaranteed" hour and a half to 2 hour Posi run... It's *almost* not possible to do a Posi run in that amount of time at that lvl in human form. Nova is a HUGE factor in speed on a Posi. I find that the higher the lvl the TF is (35 or 40+), the more viable a human form becomes for particular situations--for example, I just did an Eden Trial yesterday in my all-human form, and my job was (you're going to hate this) to "tank," since we didn't have the tank on the team. I successfully held the attention of all enemies we faced (including 2 GMs and the Crystal Titan) using Provoke, and I guarantee you I was doing more damage to them while taunting than Dwarf is capable of, due to its limited attacks.

I really am not as dense as you think I am... I just don't believe in slamming others' playstyles, even if you don't find that particular plastyle fun *yourself*.

"The One"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..

As i have stated before I do not get into debates much less argue fun. It's pointless.

I do not hate the tanking human form as I believe I suggested it's use to ACTUALLY tank mobs and not just run around letting a lower threat rating and at best moderate damage agro everything as without either a taunt aura or taunt you cannot actually hold agro to yourself and off others unless your actually the most damaging person on the team.

My interest in your post was that it seems there are situations where even you are willing to admit the forms are useful in some situations that a pure human build is as you say "practicly useless".

I have never been in a situation with my Tri-Form where I have felt I should change builds to a human only one because my present build will not be up to the task.

I had no doubt you had at least one Tri-Form Build because your well versed enough in the numbers to know that situations exist where human only will be an excersise in frustration.

And this is why I continue to advise people to go with the forms.


I do have no problems with dual builds, but I find the promotion of human form only while keeping a Tri-Form build in storage for when the rubber meets the road to be a bit..misleading.

And yet, you've admitted to situations where a tri-former (nova in particular) might be a bit "overkill."

Personally, I prefer a challenge. This is pretty much the sole reasoning behind loving to play in human form. Because it provides an actual challenge. If I'm on tri-form against a *normal* mob, and not in any difficult task force scenario as I described... It's pretty much "ho-hum." There seems (to me at least) no real danger of death, because "every angle is covered," as it were. Need to do extreme damage? Nova. Need to stun them or hit a Quasar? Human. Need to break a mez or tank? Dwarf. It's just waaaaaay too simple for me.

I come to this MMORPG (first one that's ever really completely held my attention for this long, although I've tried many) from a First-Person-Shooter background. I've got about 280 games in my arsenal (yes, I actually own all of them legitimately...Kept the boxes and everything! haha), and I've always preferred the most fast-paced "ballz to the wall," challenge-oriented playstyle. The game that held my attention for the longest before I got into City of Heroes was Unreal Tournament 2004. Even in THAT game, I began to feel (after a year of playing) that the *normal* gameplay was getting a little boring, even though it's known to be one of the fastest-paced FPS shooters out there. So, what did I do? I found out how to challenge myself to keep me interested in the game. I wound up frequenting the "Capture the Flag Instagib" servers. Instagib, if your'e unfamiliar with the term, refers to "one shot, one kill." This sort of gameplay requires EXTREMELY fast hand-eye coordination and reflexes just to make kills. Now, add to it that everyone isn't just playing "Deathmatch." They're trying to capture a flag and bring it back to their base at the same time.

Now, that's just an example. Back to City of Heroes. Same deal. I've played this game for nearly 4 years, and have made just about every AT you can think of. Although I do enjoy casual TF runs with coalition mates, I'm still the same person I was 5 years ago. I've maintained the same fast-paced mentality, the same "challenge me!" mentality, and the same "A-D-D-like" symptoms. I particularly enjoyed playing tri-forms way back in the day when they were more challenging...

...Now, inherent powers work in the forms too... Nova and dwarf got even MORE damage buffs... and Dwarf breaks mezzes.

Too easy.

So, what's next? You guessed it. Surviving in an all-human form, *almost* all the time.

And, you know what? It's fun. It's holding my attention for the current time being. At least until Going Rogue comes out, and then I can switch sides with him and try him out on all the villain missions...

And, by the way, no matter how many times you say I'm "promoting" human form, it doesn't mean I'm actually sitting there telling people "you should play human." I've never actually said that. You're welcome to peruse every single post I've ever put on these forums. I've never told anyone that. I've maintained that it's a challenge, and that it's extremely fun to play, AND that it's VERY expensive.

So, to say that I am "misleading" people by just relaying the *facts* about how I choose to play, and how I've *personally* been successful, is very much an insult, because that's basically saying "you have no right to post your opinion on the boards, because it's not the way I would play."

Well, I'm sorry to have to let you in on this, but you're not the "be-all, end-all" source for information on Khelds, no matter how much math you can spout off for hours on end. Many of us have had varying *SUCCESSFUL* experiences on playing Khelds MANY different ways, and we're all welcome to share what we know and what we've personally experienced on these boards.

Yourself included.

"The One"

*EDIT*
By the way, since this is the thread I've been postin' my build pics in, I might as well post the pic to my 2nd build...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..

I was going to post quotes of mine where I have said things like "you have a point but.." or "I'll have to give up ground on this one, although.." and things of this nature, but after rereading the word you used (Lies). I decided I would be wasting my time again and stopped as you didn't address anything I said. You just flat out said I was wrong (and lying)and figured that was good enough.

This however is exactly what I was talking about with your complete and total belief your always right and do not need to explain why. I cannot change that and thats fine, but the more I read of your posts the more I come to believe you really do believe your head and shoulders abouve the rest.

But again, thats just my take on things.

Re-read the post for clarity, and you may notice the portion of your quote I bolded.

This is what I said you were lying about.

I maintain my position.

"The One"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..

Fair enough, I didn't notice the bolded till after I posted, but in any case I do not remember (and no I do not have perfect memory) any of your posts where you admited error on your part other than the one involving 5x set bonuses (which I seriously couldn't believe you didn't know, because as much as I do not like you, you are very good at this sort of thing).

As such I also stand by my assertion, and infact speculate admitting error in a debate with me might actually kill you.

My initial urge was a snarky comment, but this is actually probably the best thing to be done as he can continue to make his points and I can continue to raise mine when I believe something is amiss or left out without the bickering between the both of us.

I wouldn't actually say suffer (somebody get "The One" oxygen he might faint here.)
as 90% of the game you will do fine in human only land, what the great debate is about (for me), is that remaining 10% of the game where the forms provide options you need in that small portion of the game and "IF" the benifit you get for using the forms in the other 90% is worthwhile.

To me it is, I like being able to finish spawns faster with higher damage and more AOE attacks and being able to tank without fear of status effects from large groups of mobs.

Others believe the shapechanging takes too much time away from the attack chains and that makes up for the difference in damage scaler and is worth having to pop breakfrees now and then.

In the end you will have to decide for yourself because both sides are deeply entrenched in their veiws and cannot even agree on a criteria to establish baseline points to compaire.

In all honesty if you really want a forum to make informed decisions based on numbers and facts, at this point I would reccomend making any other AT and looking into their forums, or barring that find similar powers in other AT sets that do basicly the same thing (Incandecent and KO Blow from SS for example) and use that information from other forums to form opinions on the various powers, as I do not believe you will find the concrete answers your looking for here.

I will also point out (if only for the possibility of finaly causing that stroke I have been hoping for) that Alienone or "The One" is compiling his prefered methods and styles and build advice on human only play and he actually has a pretty good take on that style of play.

Good luck.

The reason the guides haven't been updated is that Kheldians haven't changed very much. They had their damage scalars changed, and their inherent now carries over into the forms, and dwarf form doubles as a break free. Oh, and range increases in the human form ranged attacks. That's it, as far as I can remember. Tactics are still the same. Obsidian is correct though, in saying these boards are not overly number friendly. Kheldians aren't really top of the food scale in terms of performance, and that's usually all numbers people are interested in. Consider this: to achieve peak performance on a Kheldian, you CANNOT fully slot all of your powers...some scrapper builds take powers they never use just as mules for IO sets. Add to that the fact that a simple SO'd Kheldian can achieve the same peak performance level as a purple IO'd out one (but not as frequently, and the IO build needs some fairly IDEAL circumstances to maintain that level), and things get even more ridiculous. That said, Kheldians are incredibly versatile, and offer several play style paths right out of the box, even more when you factor in power pools.

Just a quick breeze through the posts, and I wanted to throw a thought or two in.

1. Take advantage of dual builds. Start as a triformer, since Nova *does* make life at lower levels less painful (and a lot of fun - head to Perez and self-PL for a while.)

2. Don't look at Essence Drain as "another heal." Look at it as an attack that happens to heal you. (And take advantage of Theft of Essence if youc an - the Accurate Heal set - just to get a mix of Acc and healing if needed.) Balance to your own needs.

3. Don't worry about "needed" IO sets - because, really, none of them are. If you want to tackle a specific area that you really want to see if you can boost up, *then* go after them. (Alternately, they can give a whole new challenge to play - with even more tradeoffs to consider in slotting.)

4. Carry a blue.

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