Quote:
Considering the amount of argumentative posts he's put up about the way I prefer to play, or the fact that he seems to ridicule pretty much anyone who chooses to play that way....|
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
I don't think Obsidian disputes that AlienOne has got a good expensive build or that he may be close to getting the very best out of human form, or that he is a skilled player.
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I'd actually say that he is.
"The One"
Quote:
No, I simply do not care how skilled or unskilled a player is, if you take the best of one style against the best of another style one will outperform the other because one thing always outperforms another, cars, athletes,bowling styles,.|
Originally Posted by AlienTwo
Considering the amount of argumentative posts he's put up about the way I prefer to play, or the fact that he seems to ridicule pretty much anyone who chooses to play that way....
I'd actually say that he is. "The One" |
I really do not care what works best for somebody based on a learned style, I'm looking at what performs best under perfect flawless or totaly unskilled play styles, because otherwise were not analyzing the AT or sets were analyzing individuals. And that will not help anyone.
And FYI the picture only shows a solid human build with alot of set bonuses, I could post mine as well if this is going to be a point of reference for the future.
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
Quote:
This is where we disagree. Skill plays a HUGE factor into it. I've played my human form 'shade for years. My friends don't like playing shades, and therefore are not skilled in playing them. If I were to try and to a run of a mission mapped for 8 in my human form, and they were to do the same mission as a tri-former, I would outperform them. Why? Skill. Experience.|
Originally Posted by Obsidian_Force2
No, I simply do not care how skilled or unskilled a player is, if you take the best of one style against the best of another style one will outperform the other because one thing always outperforms another, cars, athletes,bowling styles,.
I really do not care what works best for somebody based on a learned style, I'm looking at what performs best under perfect flawless or totaly unskilled play styles, because otherwise were not analyzing the AT or sets were analyzing individuals. And that will not help anyone. And FYI the picture only shows a solid human build with alot of set bonuses, I could post mine as well if this is going to be a point of reference for the future. |
Using your own example of "athletes," this is especially the case. You could spout off as many numbers you want about the "capabilities" of an athlete based on his body strength, height, reflexes, etc... But, a SKILLED, EXPERIENCED player will beat him, hands-down.
There are examples the world over of athletes who have defied the "records," and through skill, experience, and determination beat the "odds."
I'm sure, "numbers-wise", there were more physically capable athletes out there who could have won the Tour de France, but Lance Armstrong proved that you can beat the competition through skill, experience, and sheer determination.
So, while a tri-form will outperform a human form in an "ideal" situation (yes, I'm admitting to it yet again), skill and experience may make up a lot of that ground, depending on the particular situation.
I know a ton of people who would rather team with me, due to the fact that I know what the heck I'm doing on my 'shade, than any PL'd "YAY, I just got a 50 Kheld!" AE player out there, tri-form or not. If I'm leading a team (which I do quite often), I don't look at what powers a person has picked, I look at their vet status and the rest of their badges (specifically to see how much of the game they've actually experienced outside of AE). Set bonuses also show how much "love & care" a person has put into that particular toon. I don't base inviting someone to the team on whether they have set bonuses or not, but that can be a factor for my determination on if they have spent any significant amount of time playing the game outside of AE.
Skill matters, whether you want to admit to it or not.
"The One"
Sigh... yes, if you take joe couch potatoe against some trained athlete sure, but were not talking that were talking the best on both sides. Of course a skilled player plays better than one who never uses that set or AT.
But assuming equal skill then what? I'll tell you, again.. One will outperform another.
You can train somebody to be an awesome human only player by having them mastering that set of skills.
You can train somebody to be just as awesome of a Tri-Former by having them master THAT set of skills, what I'm talking about is if equally skilled players in their respective builds compaire notes, what one will be outperforming the other.
And dispite what you keep saying that can be measured, hell the skill levels do not even have to be exacting to get an accurate measurement on what sort outperforms the other, it helps but if one is doubling the damage of the other and are even close to the same skill level it's no dang mystery why.
"Ideal" situations indeed. One will outperform the other in most circumstances and while skill can disrupt this if the skill levels are weighted on one side or the other as a rule, in MOST circumstances of equal skill one will outdo the other most of the time.
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
Quote:
Agreed, although I doubt all the guys competing against Lance Armstrong were couch potatoes, or it wouldn't have been that big of a feat, especially after having cancer, which, I would think would severely adjust the numbers AGAINST him, odds-wise.|
Originally Posted by Obsidian_Force2
Sigh... yes, if you take joe couch potatoe against some trained athlete sure, but were not talking that were talking the best on both sides. Of course a skilled player plays better than one who never uses that set or AT.
But assuming equal skill then what? I'll tell you, again.. One will outperform another. You can train somebody to be an awesome human only player by having them mastering that set of skills. You can train somebody to be just as awesome of a Tri-Former by having them master THAT set of skills, what I'm talking about is if equally skilled players in their respective builds compaire notes, what one will be outperforming the other. And dispite what you keep saying that can be measured, hell the skill levels do not even have to be exacting to get an accurate measurement on what sort outperforms the other, it helps but if one is doubling the damage of the other and are even close to the same skill level it's no dang mystery why. "Ideal" situations indeed. One will outperform the other in most circumstances and while skill can disrupt this if the skill levels are weighted on one side or the other as a rule, in MOST circumstances of equal skill one will outdo the other most of the time. |
Now, if I can just get you to admit to the ratio of poorly-played WSs out there to well-played ones... We might be on to something here.
"The One"
Out of everything I said you come to the conclusion I don't believe there is a discrepancy in play skills in the Kheldian community?
Either you truely do not have a clue what I'm pointing out (and I find this hard to believe) or your deliberatly sidestepping actual points I'm making for the purpose of not having to admit I have a point.
But in either case I have never disputed there are not varying levels of skill who use both build types.
I believe your avoiding the main point of contention that I have and that is (Again) that if you take 2 people of roughly similar skills each playing a respective type of build, one human only and the other Tri-Form one will perform better, consistantly and regularly. I will not say what would win out but I do know where I would place my money on that bet.
I do not care that once in a while one build or one athelete will give a super-human performance and wether or not it was captured onto video as proof the numbers are not absolute, I never said they were, the numbers will however show how things will play out "most" of the time. Not everytime but ALOT more often than not, and trying to say they are not a reasonably safe method of determining performance is pure idiocy as nearly EVERYTHING, EVERYWHERE is determined to be effective or not based on quantifiable statistics and almost always nothing else. The fact you do not like this means nothing, it IS the standard most logical human beings use to measure and assess everything in existance.
I have had enough anecdote for the next couple years between the Lance Armstrong schlock and the my friends think posts. Please try thowing something out there that might sway anyone who actually makes decisions based on something other than "it feels like this to me/It works best for me/my totaly unsubstantiated and unprovable opinion is" type of things.
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
Dammit, just last night I was saying in game that I was steering clear of this debate.
::shrugs:: oh, well.
Quote:
Now I routinely play triform builds, so I get where you're coming from, Obsidian. And before I start let me just say that I have nothing but respect for both you and Alien. But I have to ask this question: Who cares if a triform build is better on paper than a human only build? You'll freely acknowlege that skilled players will - on average - consistently outperform poor players regardless of the build, and I understand that the math comes out heavily in favor of triform builds outdamaging human only builds on players of equal skill, but - since I rarely see two players of equal skill in game (thursday nights on Infinity excepted, of course) - I'm not sure why that point is relevant in practice.|
Originally Posted by Obsidian_Force2
But in either case I have never disputed there are not varying levels of skill who use both build types.
I believe your avoiding the main point of contention that I have and that is (Again) that if you take 2 people of roughly similar skills each playing a respective type of build, one human only and the other Tri-Form one will perform better, consistantly and regularly. I will not say what would win out but I do know where I would place my money on that bet. |
Or maybe you maintain that most kheld drivers in-game have similar levels of skill?
Quote:
| I do not care that once in a while one build or one athelete will give a super-human performance and wether or not it was captured onto video as proof the numbers are not absolute, I never said they were, the numbers will however show how things will play out "most" of the time. Not everytime but ALOT more often than not, and trying to say they are not a reasonably safe method of determining performance is pure idiocy as nearly EVERYTHING, EVERYWHERE is determined to be effective or not based on quantifiable statistics and almost always nothing else. The fact you do not like this means nothing, it IS the standard most logical human beings use to measure and assess everything in existance. |
Now please don't misunderstand me, here. I'm not calling you out, and I have no agenda one way or the other. But somewhere in the whole multi-thread debate you two have been waging I'm afraid I've lost the rationale for the point you're trying to make. That might not speak volumes about my reading comprehension, but there it is.
I get the point, I just don't understand the why.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Excellent points there, Smiling_Joe... Especially when referring to "no two players" having the same skill. That's been my experience in-game for the past 4 years as well.
I don't think the whole multi-thread debate would have gotten as bad, if Obsidian hadn't felt the "need" to be argumentative with 100% of EVERY SINGLE POST I put up in this section of the forums recently... I feld that, since I don't just "bend over" when someone starts antagonizing me for basically no real good reason, I needed to stand up for myself and my playstyle choice. No one should feel belittled for how they choose to play their game. I know plenty of people who play just to have fun (myself included), and don't regularly PvP, farm 54 boss mobs, or solo AVs... So, I will not stand for being singled out. If someone wants help with building a human-only form build on these forums, I will frikkin' help them do that if I damn well please, even if it upsets the min-maxers.
I just don't get why Obsidian feels he has to attack the "numbers" end of things, as I have never actually said that human form "outperforms" tri-formers. My only claim is that I have fun on mine, and that others can too (if they're willing to invest enough influence....haha).
Maxing your numbers does not automatically equal fun for every gamer in the world. It may for Obsidian, and it may for quite a few other players out there. It certainly doesn't for me, and it certainly doesn't for several other people out there who prefer not to take the game so seriously.
I may be in the minority for saying I like a human-only build, but I will certainly not be "beat down" because of the fact I prefer it.
You can take that one to the bank, and you don't even have to wait a couple of days to cash the check. 
"The One"
Quote:
I remember him saying that!
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Dammit, just last night I was saying in game that I was steering clear of this debate.
That's what I'd like to know as well. I mean, sure, if you're solo-ing, it may matter, or if you're crazy enough to run with an All Kheldian team, your build matters, but for most Kheldians out there who are teaming with others... what should concern us as a community, is to get those Kheldians out of that "Ohh Quant/Void/Cyst! Kill it quick guys, I'll hang back here till it's safe"Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
...I get the point, I just don't understand the why.
OK, that was an exaggeration, I'm sure... but hey, we've all seen those guys before.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Quote:
If I had to condense the whole Tri-Form Khelds vs. Human Form Kheld dilema into one sentence it would be this:|
Originally Posted by AlienTwo
Excellent points there, Smiling_Joe... Especially when referring to "no two players" having the same skill. That's been my experience in-game for the past 4 years as well.
I don't think the whole multi-thread debate would have gotten as bad, if Obsidian hadn't felt the "need" to be argumentative with 100% of EVERY SINGLE POST I put up in this section of the forums recently... I feld that, since I don't just "bend over" when someone starts antagonizing me for basically no real good reason, I needed to stand up for myself and my playstyle choice. No one should feel belittled for how they choose to play their game. I know plenty of people who play just to have fun (myself included), and don't regularly PvP, farm 54 boss mobs, or solo AVs... So, I will not stand for being singled out. If someone wants help with building a human-only form build on these forums, I will frikkin' help them do that if I damn well please, even if it upsets the min-maxers. I just don't get why Obsidian feels he has to attack the "numbers" end of things, as I have never actually said that human form "outperforms" tri-formers. My only claim is that I have fun on mine, and that others can too (if they're willing to invest enough influence....haha). Maxing your numbers does not automatically equal fun for every gamer in the world. It may for Obsidian, and it may for quite a few other players out there. It certainly doesn't for me, and it certainly doesn't for several other people out there who prefer not to take the game so seriously. I may be in the minority for saying I like a human-only build, but I will certainly not be "beat down" because of the fact I prefer it. You can take that one to the bank, and you don't even have to wait a couple of days to cash the check. "The One" |
Tri-Form Kheldians are harder to learn than Human Form Kheldians, but easier to master.
New Kheld drivers who begin with tri-form builds not only have to cope with learning new powers and being slot-starved right out of the gate, they have the added burden of learning what the forms do and all the tray-swapping, key-binding, macros and damage modifiers that go with them. They have to figure out which human form powers do best under which circumstances, when optimal times to shift form are, which forms to switch to under which situations, and which of the eighteen powers (by level 20) they have that are screaming for slots to put the two that they just got. It can be quite intimidating.
And I think that's why many new kheldians turn to human only builds - only to get discouraged by the lack of damage, mez protection and overall survivability in the early levels and end up either abandoning their kheld altogether or powerlevelling.
But here's the thing: if you can get to a decent level - however you do it - you can swap to a human only build and operate in relative security while you learn what the powers do without the added stress of swapping forms. I think everyone reading these forums would admit to at least some degree of disorientation when they were first getting their tentacles under them every time they switched forms and trays, and especially so when they dropped back to human form.
I died over and over when I first was levelling my warshade (and again after taking a several month-long real world break from CoH) by dropping form in the middle of battle and forgetting where the Stygian Circle button was! Devoting my second build to a human only build as an experiment was a surprising release from what had become shapeshifting anxiety, and I found myself actually doing better in human form than I had on my triform.
Now that demonstrates nothing but a lack of skill on my part - I'll freely admit that. But that's not the point. The point is that at time I had a choice: do I continue along this road or do I use what I've learned and go back to tri-form and get my issues with that worked out next. Yeah. I chose option C: Jump over on my Peacebringer and kick some tail for a while.
BUT had I chosen to stick with human form I would have only improved, learning new tricks and strategies that would never have occured to me on a tri-form Warshade. I would have done...... almost as well as I could have done had I chosen to go back to my tri-form build.
You see, eventually the persistent mez and heavy resists in the late game (Tempyst is only 38) would have eroded my new-found competence with human form and given me problems I'd not have seen on a tri-form build.
People can and do overcome that, but it takes alot more work than it does on a tri-form. Thus I say it's harder to master a human form build than it is a tri-form build.
Tri-form may have a steeper learning curve, but once you've got it, you've got it (provided you don't take breaks and forget, like me). And I think what Obsidian has been saying is that if someone wants to feel as though they're doing well with their kheldian, then tri-form is the easiest way to get there.
As far as the debate goes, I actually agree with both of you on different points. Yes, tri-form is - once you get help with the binds and shifting - the easiest to level and excel with, and it's notable that you're not denying that. Conversely, Human-form is also a very valid playing style that can be every bit as fun and rewarding.
What we could do with here, if you'll allow me to be frank, is Obsidian mashing your buttons a little less and you letting your buttons be mashed a little less. But, vitriol notwithstanding, I think it's overall been a useful and informative debate.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Very informative and accurate post. I could agree with that.
Thanks for your input.
"The One"
*EDIT*
Yay! I'm back on my primary account... It had lapsed in payment for a day or two, so I wan havin' to post via my 2nd account (thus, AlienTwo..haha)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
I like this one, the squiddiness is strong in him.
And he nailed my philosophy nearly exactly.
The most comon complaints I have found on Kheldians is lack of damage and suffering from mezz, and I seldom see these comments coming from Tri-Form builds.
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
Just did a respec on him yesterday to change one "team help" power (to act more on the "pre-emptive" side)... Can you guess what it is?
"The One"
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
Quote:
Gratz on provoking the enemy
Originally Posted by AlienOne
Just did a respec on him yesterday to change one "team help" power (to act more on the "pre-emptive" side)... Can you guess what it is?
"The One"
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Hehe, good one.... Just tried it out tonight on a Sara Moore TF... Worked like a charm on Nemesis guys, but I had to start holding off on using it on the Rularu, because I kept getting hit with "only affecting self"... I guess they didn't care for the "provoking" too much... :P
"The One"
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
Put Chance for Psi Damage on the Provoke, I think it can take it, and turn a taunt-power into an unreliable but very funny AoE damage power. I always get a good chuckle whenever I defeat a Boss by simply antagonizing it.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Quote:
Good luck with that. I had a build for Arcana a while back with Presence for the fears and the taunts and it was quite nice as well as very thematically apt. I'm speced into Medicine currently for raid wipe recovery but Presence is the pool I'd have on second build if I wasn't too lazy to fund one.
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Originally Posted by AlienOne
Just did a respec on him yesterday to change one "team help" power (to act more on the "pre-emptive" side)... Can you guess what it is?
"The One" |
"He may be arrogant, but he happens to be correct" - Ellis
"The server is full of crazies" - New_Dark_Age
Rainbow Arcana / Diamond D: Legion of Freedom - Virtue
lof.guildportal.com
Good summary Smiling_Joe, you have a good understanding of things!
One last comment to AlienOne: Any reason you haven't got all the accolade powers yet? I get them as soon as possible so it is bugging me 
Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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Quote:
You've hereby awarded the Obsessive Accolade. (This grants the water you wash your hands with +2 efficiency against grease!
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
...One last comment to AlienOne: Any reason you haven't got all the accolade powers yet? I get them as soon as possible so it is bugging me
)
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Quote:
LoLz. Well, though I do realize that having all the Accolades greatly benefits you, I really just haven't sat down to put the time into that. Every time I log into the game, I wind up doing yet another TF, or doing "MAX IT OUT!" test missions with my coalitions mates to test our builds against the greatest difficulties possible... By the time we find out the time of day, it's already too late to put time into doing something else before we log...|
Originally Posted by LordXenite
You've hereby awarded the Obsessive Accolade. (This grants the water you wash your hands with +2 efficiency against grease!
) |
On top of that, I've been putting a lot more time recently into putting together videos for CoX to hopefully get more of the public interested in the game... I'm also thinking of making a "comic series" based on a few of my characters, but I'm not sure as to whether or not I'll really have time to do that right now.
I only have one "true" badger, and that's "AlienOne", but I've been slackin' with him as of late, because I just have way too much fun on my WS... haha!
I'll get 'em eventually though... I'll just have to designate a time and a day to do it, and stick to it....lol
"The One"
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
By the way, here's that video I was talkin' about in the earlier post. As you can see, Eclipse is recharged well before my previous Eclipse hit drops.
And, no, the video is not "doctored" in any way. I can't even begin to understand how someone would be able to doctor a video with the full UI and chat bar and everything up... How would you even make it appear as if you didn't die if you did?
I fully realize someone can edit the text file in a /demo file, but when you record a /demo file, it records it without the UI, and you can pretty much do anything you want with those files. You could one-shot Statesman with a /demo file. But, with a Fraps video recording of everything? You'd basically have to have your own special effects team to accomplish "doctoring" a video like that to look even halfway believable....
LINK
Also, yes, we made free use of inspirations, as any *smart* player would in a "max out" situation... I was with a Spines scrapper--which, of course, "showcases the power of a scrapper" I know, Obsidian. This most definitely isn't showing any sort of surviveability for a Warshade.
If anything, it's showing how much Warshades can suck in a "mass mob" situation, and how you can certainly have the least amount of fun in this game.
/sarcasm
"The One"
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
Quote:
Lol that would be cool!|
Originally Posted by LordXenite
You've hereby awarded the Obsessive Accolade. (This grants the water you wash your hands with +2 efficiency against grease! ) |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by AlienOne
LoLz. Well, though I do realize that having all the Accolades greatly benefits you, I really just haven't sat down to put the time into that. Every time I log into the game, I wind up doing yet another TF, or doing "MAX IT OUT!" test missions with my coalitions mates to test our builds against the greatest difficulties possible... By the time we find out the time of day, it's already too late to put time into doing something else before we log...
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They are the only badges I really go for though, that and the MoSTF which is always good to show off with
Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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Quote:
Fo SHO! I find it especially rewarding that I can show the MoSTF on both a PB and a WS--It's the badge I'm most proud of! |
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
They are the only badges I really go for though, that and the MoSTF which is always good to show off with
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"The One"
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
|
76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
Quote:
I actually find the MoSTF the place my Tri-Former can show off the most. I have the AoE damage for the normal mobs, the single target damage for the AV's, the general survivability to not die, Dwarf form so I can help the tank in front of the tree without risking death, and to tank a second AV for a while should we make a bad pull on the last mission, and also used to have stimulant to aid the tank against Ghost Widow! And the TP because we always TP the puller away from the AV's to try and avoid the one shot kill.|
Originally Posted by AlienOne
Fo SHO! I find it especially rewarding that I can show the MoSTF on both a PB and a WS--It's the badge I'm most proud of!
"The One" |
I guess human form only would be good for all that too, possibly bar the tree, where you can't always get the full Eclipse. And since Cysts really shouldn't be a threat to anyone who thinks they are capable of an Mo run I think Warshades are one of the safest classes to bring along.
Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
|
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!