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First, let me say that with Shield Defense, bringing a few extra minions to the AV fight can really speed things up. So you've got that going for you right there. As long as you can ignore the extra damage, having a bunch of minions in range will help you in an AV fight.|
Originally Posted by PhaseStalker
I am stuck with the same problem everyone has building a capped BS/SD that I want to solo AVs without taking half an hour......not enough power pools.
I have cj/sj, fitness, medicine, fighting pools, with no room for hasten. And I dont want to softcap without cj as it gimps the slotting of the powers (I have look at this until I am blind!). |
Now, it sounds like you already know this, but Hasten really is a prerequisite for the top-tier Broadsword attack chains. That's not to say it's required for AV soloing. You can solo AVs with a much lower recharge requirement, but as you've stated, it might take a long time.
I managed to softcap without CJ/SJ on my BS/SD; I didn't gimp myself to do it, and I can put more than 200DPS on a single target, rising to 235+ with AAO saturated. And I'll tell you plainly that sustained damage output in that realm simply isn't possible without a Hastened attack chain. Not with Broadsword.
I hear you when you say that you've looked at it until you're blind. I spent a long time refining my BS/SD build, and it went through several iterations and respecs before I was really happy with it (and no, I don't post it).
But if you're really dead-set on CJ/SJ and no Hasten, then you have a few options to improve damage. However, none of them represent a really huge improvement.
You suggested improving damage output some by softcapping with Maneuvers/Assault instead of Boxing/Tough/Weave. That could possibly work, but you'd suffer more S/L damage when you get hit, which might negate the benefit of better DPS in a lot of AV fights. Especially with half a dozen extra minions swinging at you.
A better option is to stack up lots of +dam from IO set bonuses. Those bonuses often come tangentially to softcapping, and they can help a lot--although not nearly as much as having a faster-charging attack chain.
You also need to make sure that you have -res procs in your attack chain. Achilles Heel in Hack and Fury of the Gladiator in Headsplitter are typical. Using the two different procs enables them to stack rather than merely refresh, which bumps up damage somewhat.
Without seeing your build and your specific attack slotting, I can't advise you better than that. 170ish DPS with just one target in AAO should be within the scope of a non-Hastened, softcapped BS/SD build, and that's enough to beat a lot of AVs. Then, of course, if you bring some extra minions to the party to fuel AAO, you can bump up your damage from there.
But if you're looking to make fairly short work of the AVs, you're going to need Hasten.
Respectfully, and not restricting... you realize that shield defence is fully INTENDED to hit it's shine by being teamed? I'm not in the least suggesting it's functionality is limited to teams, but that the ...weaknesses youre runnin up against are intended to be reinforced via teamplay.
I'm grateful to see youre also working with grant cover... WAY too many shielders fail/refuse to take that power using the argument 'it don't help me'... a toggle on with great defense to encourage your teammates to run near you...?? No brainer! - ...I was one of the no brainers with my 1st shield... but fixed that idiocy when working final slottings.
BS/SD, SD/Axe, Elec/SD and Axe/SD...
mixed feelings on active defence being a click vs toggle... as click can stack, but.. I WANT my taunt on auto, Not active defence....
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You can drop fighting and still be very viable.|
Originally Posted by PhaseStalker
Hello scrapper forum!! 5 yr vet here who doesn't post (much) but reads here with every build I make.
I am stuck with the same problem everyone has building a capped BS/SD that I want to solo AVs without taking half an hour......not enough power pools. I have cj/sj, fitness, medicine, fighting pools, with no room for hasten. And I dont want to softcap without cj as it gimps the slotting of the powers (I have look at this until I am blind!) Would swapping the fighting pool with assult and manuvers hurt me too much in resistance? I was thinking the added dam boost would help make up for not having hasten plus I would gain a power slot for conserve power. I am 39 on this toon currently and would take all of BS except slash, confront and whirling..and all of SD except OWtS Thoughts? Thanks guys. |
Pick up Hasten, Whirling (6 slot with Oblit) or Conserve if you feel you still need it, and pick up OWtS. With soft capped defenses you won't need the extra resists in combination with Aid Self.
With soft capped defenses you can discard Parry. You can pick up and 6 slot Slash with Sheild Breaker as a set mule/defense debuff tool or you can pick up Confront as a set mule and 6 slot it with Mocking Beratement or Perfect Zinger or you can pick up Super Speed. 3 Slot Super Speed with the Zephyr set for the defense bonuses and slot an Unbounded Leap +Stealth or Celerity +Stealth in the base slot in Sprint for PvE stealthing.
In tougher situations you'll still have OWtS to fall back on and it provides more Smash/Lethal resistance than Tough, costs much much less end to use, and provides resistance to exotic damage types that Tough doesn't. If you need OWtS more often than it's up (which is 1/3 of the time) you need to re-examine your playstyle/build.
Dropping the fighting pool also has the advantage of saving you another .33 end per second after ED capped end reduction and some combination of the the above mentioned power picks and sets with those you are all ready using provide more defense to each position, at no end cost, than ED capped Weave.
3 slotted Hasten plus Active Defense 3 slotted with Membranes allows you to double stack Active Defense a majority of the time (you can perma double stack it with other +rech bonuses) this has 2 benefits. The Membranes increase the defense debuff resistance provided by Active Defense. Double stacking it doubles this increased defense debuff resistance and also doubles the mez protection provided by double stacking Active Defense. This is a great help in fighting yellow mitos on a Hami raid and in mitigating the stun from fighting Romulus's Nictus friends in the ITF as a couple of prominent for instances.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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I agree with Chaos_String:|
Originally Posted by PhaseStalker
Hello scrapper forum!! 5 yr vet here who doesn't post (much) but reads here with every build I make.
I am stuck with the same problem everyone has building a capped BS/SD that I want to solo AVs without taking half an hour......not enough power pools. I have cj/sj, fitness, medicine, fighting pools, with no room for hasten. And I dont want to softcap without cj as it gimps the slotting of the powers (I have look at this until I am blind!) Would swapping the fighting pool with assult and manuvers hurt me too much in resistance? I was thinking the added dam boost would help make up for not having hasten plus I would gain a power slot for conserve power. I am 39 on this toon currently and would take all of BS except slash, confront and whirling..and all of SD except OWtS Thoughts? Thanks guys. |
Drop the Fighting Pool. Cap your Defense without Weave, with capped Def you don't need that much Res. This way you can take Hasten and OwtS.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
heya,
from experience (my first AV soloing attempts were with a BS/SD) Medicine is WAY more important than Hasten.
The lucky hits will ALWAYS get through, and the more minions you use to feed AAO, the more lucky hits.
Meanwhile, Hasten is a little overrated, given how much you can get from set bonuses, and frankly, a small gap at the end of your attack chain isn't always a bad thing, it can help you save Endurance,
personally, i would choose the fighting pool, but there are perfectly good options for builds that don't use it.
And as for the leadership pool, well sure, it's nice, but if it's extra damage you want, nothing works better than surrounding yourself with AAO bait, fully loaded it's the equivalent of perma-build-up.
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I'd go with Manuevers but not Assault-- Take Hasten instead. Conserve power, yes. Also, Tough only gives resistance to smashing/ lethal. Let's face it- resistances for a Shield scrapper are anemic at base, yet I see lots of builds not slotting the resist and getting Tough instead. OK, I understand, I really do. But the hero-side content gives a renewable temp power that is better than Tough ----> Wedding Band which gives resistance to all and does not have a pre-req power. Just toggle it on for extreme situations.|
Originally Posted by PhaseStalker
Hello scrapper forum!! 5 yr vet here who doesn't post (much) but reads here with every build I make.
I am stuck with the same problem everyone has building a capped BS/SD that I want to solo AVs without taking half an hour......not enough power pools. I have cj/sj, fitness, medicine, fighting pools, with no room for hasten. And I dont want to softcap without cj as it gimps the slotting of the powers (I have look at this until I am blind!) Would swapping the fighting pool with assult and manuvers hurt me too much in resistance? I was thinking the added dam boost would help make up for not having hasten plus I would gain a power slot for conserve power. I am 39 on this toon currently and would take all of BS except slash, confront and whirling..and all of SD except OWtS Thoughts? Thanks guys. |
And for soloing AVs, Grant Cover is unnecessary. I am not a fan of GC. I slot Active Defense with Hami's and Hasten maxed for recharge and have yet to face a solo situation where defense debuff is an issue. Sure, GC is ok for team play for certain occasions. But I am not gonna have my blaster/defender/troller/dom/Corr/MM crowd around a Shield toon which probably has GC under-slotted unless I already have a good amount of defense on my own. SO, IMO, GC is more skippable than OwtS.
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Heh. I've never cared what the devs INTENDED. I just care what is POSSIBLE. And hard core AV soloing turns out to be a Shield Defense strength.|
Originally Posted by Thrunk
Respectfully, and not restricting... you realize that shield defence is fully INTENDED to hit it's shine by being teamed? I'm not in the least suggesting it's functionality is limited to teams, but that the ...weaknesses youre runnin up against are intended to be reinforced via teamplay.
I'm grateful to see youre also working with grant cover... WAY too many shielders fail/refuse to take that power using the argument 'it don't help me'... a toggle on with great defense to encourage your teammates to run near you...?? No brainer! - ...I was one of the no brainers with my 1st shield... but fixed that idiocy when working final slottings. |
As far as Grant Cover, I don't team much, but I can tell you that the last thing I want on my Blasters is for a Shield Scrapper to be chasing me around the map trying to give me Grant Cover, or to insist that I should jump into melee range and just stand there to get the benefit. My Blaster's main defense is MOVEMENT, and I'll take that over the Grant Cover buff any day. I suspect the same is true of other squishies.
That said, I took it on my scrapper, and use it situationally. It's good for buffing the tank, for instance, since you'll both be in melee. And it's nice when facing defense debuffers.
On the original questions, the BS/SD build I have planned is a low DPS one focused purely on survivability, double-stacking Parry to handle pets and to-hit buffs in AE and with no attack chain options for higher DPS. He'll do between 150 and 184 DPS depending on number of targets in range of Against All Odds. I consider that good enough for AVs. Swapping Parry out for Slash is a trivial change that buys you another 6 DPS or so. Stick an Achilles' Heel in Slash for more benefit. Might crack 200 with fully saturated AAO. Not sure how much better you can do without Hasten.
I wouldn't drop the Fighting pool. Even if you can soft cap without Weave, Tough is just too nice to skip in my book. Assault isn't a particularly big DPS boost, probably less than 5%.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
I skipped the Fighting pool on my BS/SD scrapper and never looked back.
Parry - slotted up - is nearly a secondary powerset in and of itself. You wanna talk softcapped defense? It's in your primary, not your secondary.
I also agree with Procs to boost damage if you have room for it, but Hasten is pretty much mandatory if you're hoping to reach AV/DPS levels with BS.
There's more than 1 way to skin a cat, but I'm betting more on Hasten to increase outgoing DPS than relyong on Fighting Pool for defense.
Keep in mind that AVs only regenerate 94 DPS. My no-Hasten double-stacked Parry defensive build will still net 90 DPS against AVs, finishing them off in a little over 5 minutes. Hasten is required for max DPS, but isn't required to take out AVs in less than half an hour.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Hey guys,
I also am working on a softcap BS/SD build. Please let me know how the following looks. My main issue honestly is cash, I started with 70 million and and had to switch ideas, to make it all work. I still have around 40 left after buying sets of Mako, Touch of Death and the To hit buff. Multi strike seems to be a cheap alternative. Will I have recharge issues?
Thanks all in advanced.
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Yeah, you'll have a bit of recharge issue with this build; Headsplitter is charging too slow to chain Headsplitter, Hack, Disembowel, Slice. You'll need to get Headsplitter down to 7.3ish sec cooldown to make that chain work well. Even then, it's not a top DPS chain, but it's servicible.
If I were you, I'd also be concerned with recovery and regeneration in this build. Both are pretty low, and your MaxHP isn't much to write home about, either.
Thanks to all of you for taking the time to respond. This is why this forum ranks above all others. GC I took for the debuff resistance....that and combined with manuvers and possibly whirling will keep my VET pet up and that def/end bonus!! I am kidding....
This gives me a few new ideas to work with now.....Not taking the fighting pool does open up more choices. I do want hasten in if I can balance the survivablility. I too am a fan of Tough though.
But as someone already stated....it wont be a factor much on a capped build with medicine except extreme situations. Then OWTS will come into play. Decisions decisions. While money isent a factor for me, I wish the gladiators +3 Def didnt skyrocket like it has...
If only Mind Link was available....softcappign make easy, sigh
Back to the drawing board. I will get this right and posting my downed AV exploits soon...
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I'm not shooting for the stars here, and never intend on soloing AV's. Just looking for a cheap softcap Team build. I am concerned about the end vs toggle situation.
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Originally Posted by Chaos_String
Yeah, you'll have a bit of recharge issue with this build; Headsplitter is charging too slow to chain Headsplitter, Hack, Disembowel, Slice. You'll need to get Headsplitter down to 7.3ish sec cooldown to make that chain work well. Even then, it's not a top DPS chain, but it's servicible.
If I were you, I'd also be concerned with recovery and regeneration in this build. Both are pretty low, and your MaxHP isn't much to write home about, either. |
QR
Of course what no one has mentioned in this thread is that Tank Shields >>>>>>>> Scrapper Shields.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
Hmmm.....OWTS is not affected by recharge right?
I am more torn than ever.
I am not a big fan of SS, for concept reseasons and just plain getting around but I may be forced into that pool to keep hasten and the fighting pool.
This may have been beaten to death but what about GC? Skippable? I dont team much and frankly dont rememember many instances blue side where it would make much of a difference debuff wise???
I haven't had this much headache since building a VEAT
I think the reason people shy away from taking Grant Cover is because the average team doesn't recognize the benefit. I think the intended usage, to draw people closer to you to get the PF buff, while they get buffed by GC, is flawed. My experiences is that people basically either don't understand the power, don't need it due to defenders/corrs/controllers/whatever supplying adequate damage mitigation, or don't even think to look at the melee guy as being the source of a good defense buff.
For that reason, I am trying to build my Fire/SD scrap to be totally self-sufficiant, with all of that extra stuff being a good icing on the cake. (and yeah I'm taking grant cover, but only to hold a LotG 
)
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My first Shield/Axe was pacted with my brother's broadsword shield. Though often teamed together (and with others) our mindset - we aint gonna take grantcover cause it doesnt do anything for ourselves (directly). It wasn't until after hitting level 50 we both realized all the shortchanging we'd been doing. |
Originally Posted by Neogumbercules
I think the reason people shy away from taking Grant Cover is because the average team doesn't recognize the benefit. I think the intended usage, to draw people closer to you to get the PF buff, while they get buffed by GC, is flawed. My experiences is that people basically either don't understand the power, don't need it due to defenders/corrs/controllers/whatever supplying adequate damage mitigation, or don't even think to look at the melee guy as being the source of a good defense buff.
For that reason, I am trying to build my Fire/SD scrap to be totally self-sufficiant, with all of that extra stuff being a good icing on the cake. (and yeah I'm taking grant cover, but only to hold a LotG ) |
Arguments aside on 'having to ask/ remind other's for our "due" buffs', how often have you been looking at those slacking, missed, inbetween times for 'your' speedboost, shields, bubbles, clearminds, forge, adrenalin boost, thaw, etc... times when you admire -or at the least respect- the frequency of the other player's ability to keep the buffs going, times when youre shouting at the monitor for the blasted 'buffer' to freaking hit the team with the buffs at least ONCE every 5 min..., times when you patiently or not-so-patiently remind your fellow to please sb...
Then look at the not so frequently used Grant Cover. Depending on slotting... it can be near a luck to 2 constant pbaoe buff. It's a toggle... you Don't Have to keep buffing your fellows... if they can handle the proximity/ your aggro hold/managing skills, mob sizes, etc... they get the buff. If not... well, it's not like you don't have it toggled up. Multi-shield teams... (not discounting leadership, etc), the overlapping Grant Covers can be jawdropping. Did a jawdropping VEAT ITF yesterday, amongst the funnest in a while and the overlapping assault, leadership, and maneuvers was impressive...
Even if you solo 100% of the time (I wouldn't suggest there aren't some that really do solo 100%... but I'd be surprised to come across them) That's 3-4 more slots of ...Luck of the Gambler? If you happen to be by yourself, don't toggle it on (yeah, 'duh').
I'm likely not going to be able to sell anyone to flipping to Grant Cover, it's a choice thing, but as a choice thing, at least consider looking at the team benefit aspects - especially for being a low maintaince toggled contribution that can hold sets that DO benefit YOU also. From a perspective, a teamed shield without grant cover, isnt that dissimilar to the chuckles directed at a kin without speedboost (I respect the decision while disagreeing with it) - and speedboost one actually has to pay attention to, imagine a kin's glee if it could just be a toggle that grants 2 min of sb, just by being near for a moment!
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Grant Cover gives the user Def and Slow Debuff resistance. It costs considerably less than the other toggles in the set. Why wouldn't you want that even solo?
|
Originally Posted by Thrunk
My first Shield/Axe was pacted with my brother's broadsword shield. Though often teamed together (and with others) our mindset - we aint gonna take grantcover cause it doesnt do anything for ourselves (directly). It wasn't until after hitting level 50 we both realized all the shortchanging we'd been doing.
Arguments aside on 'having to ask/ remind other's for our "due" buffs', how often have you been looking at those slacking, missed, inbetween times for 'your' speedboost, shields, bubbles, clearminds, forge, adrenalin boost, thaw, etc... times when you admire -or at the least respect- the frequency of the other player's ability to keep the buffs going, times when youre shouting at the monitor for the blasted 'buffer' to freaking hit the team with the buffs at least ONCE every 5 min..., times when you patiently or not-so-patiently remind your fellow to please sb... Then look at the not so frequently used Grant Cover. Depending on slotting... it can be near a luck to 2 constant pbaoe buff. It's a toggle... you Don't Have to keep buffing your fellows... if they can handle the proximity/ your aggro hold/managing skills, mob sizes, etc... they get the buff. If not... well, it's not like you don't have it toggled up. Multi-shield teams... (not discounting leadership, etc), the overlapping Grant Covers can be jawdropping. Did a jawdropping VEAT ITF yesterday, amongst the funnest in a while and the overlapping assault, leadership, and maneuvers was impressive... Even if you solo 100% of the time (I wouldn't suggest there aren't some that really do solo 100%... but I'd be surprised to come across them) That's 3-4 more slots of ...Luck of the Gambler? If you happen to be by yourself, don't toggle it on (yeah, 'duh'). I'm likely not going to be able to sell anyone to flipping to Grant Cover, it's a choice thing, but as a choice thing, at least consider looking at the team benefit aspects - especially for being a low maintaince toggled contribution that can hold sets that DO benefit YOU also. From a perspective, a teamed shield without grant cover, isnt that dissimilar to the chuckles directed at a kin without speedboost (I respect the decision while disagreeing with it) - and speedboost one actually has to pay attention to, imagine a kin's glee if it could just be a toggle that grants 2 min of sb, just by being near for a moment! |
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
I would think that Grant Cover is a high priority power for your later levels, not because of the team benefits but for the debuff resists. That would be important even while solo. Earlier on, the benefits are minimal to yourself. As you increase in level, and also supposedly get closer to the soft-cap, Grant Cover will help you preserve your defense against defense debuffs, and there are several by the time you get to the mid- and late game. Sure, it's not as high as SR's defense debuff resistance, but it will prevent your defense from a cascading failure.
Hello scrapper forum!! 5 yr vet here who doesn't post (much) but reads here with every build I make.
I am stuck with the same problem everyone has building a capped BS/SD that I want to solo AVs without taking half an hour......not enough power pools.
I have cj/sj, fitness, medicine, fighting pools, with no room for hasten. And I dont want to softcap without cj as it gimps the slotting of the powers (I have look at this until I am blind!)
Would swapping the fighting pool with assult and manuvers hurt me too much in resistance?
I was thinking the added dam boost would help make up for not having hasten plus I would gain a power slot for conserve power.
I am 39 on this toon currently and would take all of BS except slash, confront and whirling..and all of SD except OWtS
Thoughts?
Thanks guys.