Farming and the Market
By
Blue Rabbit,
Posted on: 2009-05-05 10:42 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
it wasn't consecutive days it was over 3 days in a week.
@Effy
Effy On Hot Sauce Fire/Cold Corr
Effy On Hot Chilli Fire/Dark Corr
Effy On Heat FM/SD Before FoTM
Effy Unleashed DP/EN Blaster 1st 50 @ Union
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it wasn't consecutive days it was over 3 days in a week.
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But how many hours in total? I think it's the hours they'll be looking at, not the days.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
No idea i did an LGTF an a few normal missions in that time as well, i didn't just stay in MA.
To be honest toons aren't going to get banned left right an center unless people really do take the biscuit. I didn't pure farm, half the missions weren't farm maps until i hit 40 an i couldn't get a team anywhere vill side unless i jumped in a team fighting Rikti.
I hope the Devs only punish people abusing people who have been warned, technically all us forum readers have been warned now, any action previous to this shouldn't be punished unless the toons we're leveling 1-50 in like 6 hours which is just stupid, i like playing my toon an enjoy getting new powers, rushing to 50 is boring.
i'll await the introduction of the planned actions, an act accordingly, i really hope they don't delete my toon.
Not going to say ill quit the game because i might not, but i won't be happy as technically i didn't purposefully exploits any rules/regs, as non were set.
@Effy
Effy On Hot Sauce Fire/Cold Corr
Effy On Hot Chilli Fire/Dark Corr
Effy On Heat FM/SD Before FoTM
Effy Unleashed DP/EN Blaster 1st 50 @ Union
They're talking about removing access from an avatar, not deleting it - which sounds like they may lock the avatar for a period of time - like the number of weeks it would take to get to 50 the normal way.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Maybe but people look too deeply in to proposed actions, that have been stated to not be finalized :P
Oh an BTW i agree with your thoughts in the other thread, you have your head screwed on ,unlike some of these noddies always moaning. 
@Effy
Effy On Hot Sauce Fire/Cold Corr
Effy On Hot Chilli Fire/Dark Corr
Effy On Heat FM/SD Before FoTM
Effy Unleashed DP/EN Blaster 1st 50 @ Union
here's a question you can go from 1 to 50 doing rikti farm maps in less than a day how long dose it take doing "normal" MA story arcs that feature custom enemies?
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here's a question you can go from 1 to 50 doing rikti farm maps in less than a day how long dose it take doing "normal" MA story arcs that feature custom enemies?
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10 years with the omgliekimmaput10EB'sfo'real [censored].
Fury
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They're talking about removing access from an avatar, not deleting it - which sounds like they may lock the avatar for a period of time - like the number of weeks it would take to get to 50 the normal way.
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Or locking it out from all access including deletion: which could mean you effectively lose both the toon and the slot.
Just to be cheerful 
Is it time for the dance of joy yet?
That's certainly what they're think of with the MA slots - instead of deleting farm missions, they'd ban and lock them in the slot - so it'd be 3 strikes and you're out 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Yeah, that's really intelligent because you'd still get a huge list of missions clogging up the MA, fully selectable (as they are now) but just unplayable (as they are now). That really helps bringing the "appropriate" MA content to the fore, it does.
NOT!
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
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Yeah, that's really intelligent because you'd still get a huge list of missions clogging up the MA, fully selectable (as they are now) but just unplayable (as they are now). That really helps bringing the "appropriate" MA content to the fore, it does.
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It doesn't mean this at all.
Originally, when arcs were being marked as invalid (due to patches invalidating arcs and due to the bug where accessing missions from a server with a different language wrongly marked an arc as invalid) they did not appear on the search/browse listings. The same happened (and should still happen) if an arc is auto-pulled due to crossing the complaints threshold.
I'd imagine the same sort of system will be used with banned & locked arcs existing on the servers and taking up a space but being hidden from the public. So search will improve and appropriate content will be easier to find.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
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Am i the only one failing to see this market death that every one else is experiencing?
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No, you're not. Quite the opposite. I was away for about 2-3 weeks after the release of i14; I came back to find, across half a dozen toons, that every single one of the "bid stupidly low and leave it" requests I had out there had filled.
Rare salvage is way down. Recipes seem to be more readily available. Who cares if common salvage is up? The savings on one rare will pay for a whole lot of common salvage even at the current prices.
Besides - OK, I'm not a big fan of the MA, but I can bring myself to play the occasional mission. Solo a boss+guards+glowies, takes half an hour, you'll easily come away with 400 tickets. That will buy you a bucket of common salvage the size of your head, giving you whatever you needed and a vast chunk of influence to buy the next things you need, or five uncommons you're missing.
Also, as one other poster points out - it'll only last as long as the majority of MA players haven't noticed that common salvage rolls are a good way to turn tickets into influence. It's self-adjusting; I think the availability of stuff from the MA is just right, and it's only a matter of waiting until players adjust.
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Relax 
as soon as CO goes live , 14th july btw , all the farmers and tools will rush of to the new shiney and farm away there , leaving the people who want to play CoX in peace 
, the market will then self adjust and all will be peachy once more ..and MA will be a haven for the creative souls and fun arcs will abound Honest .
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^This. Then all the CO players will realise that CoX is farm-free and come flocking to it and the natural order shall be restored
Tbh though, CO doesn't look as good as CoX IMO.
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or am I playing too much Loco Roco 2?
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You can never play too much Loco Roco 2
CO is too hyped up, Don't get me wrong i'm gunna try it out, but i don't like the graphic style an a few other bits.
We will see on the 14th of July, but CoX still offers so much.
@Effy
Effy On Hot Sauce Fire/Cold Corr
Effy On Hot Chilli Fire/Dark Corr
Effy On Heat FM/SD Before FoTM
Effy Unleashed DP/EN Blaster 1st 50 @ Union
[taken from my post in the other economy thread]
Whether the developers like to admit it or not, SOME farming can benefit the economy.
With farmers, more infamy and recipes are being driven into the black market (which with a player-driven economy is important)
Although the devs may say farming destroys the risk:reward ratio because it makes the game too easy, some farming needs to be done, because the extremely low drop rate (far less than 1% of enemies you fight it's safe to assume) would mean if everyone was a casual player, or NO farming was done, ALOT less purples would be arround.
A lack of purples, we could reasonably assume would deter people from making new characters because they won't be able to squeeze the absolute potential from their characters.
Alot of pvpers would be deterred from re-slotting their moves, and so less money is going into the market.
Without the recipes and infamy going into the market, any drops people get, unless they didn't need them, would ultimately be kept for themselves.
if in the worst scenario possible, the market runs dry, this would be a huge blow to the game and would take away a big social point in the game; the need to trade or interact with other players to be successful
I encourage the devs to take action when people are abusing a system, to horrendous levels, but the simple fact of the matter is, if the MA system was not ready to be released to the public in it's current state, the devs can only blame themselves for either not fixing the bugs during testing/quality control before release, or they can try to punish players for using an easy-way-out that's there to them.
AND, it is reasonable to assume if there is an easy way to do things, some, if not a significant majority of players will take that route. Like i keep saying to the devs: what can be farmed, WILL be farmed, at LEAST by SOME people.
The devs, by introducing this tyrannical punishment system for MA, are inadvertantly hindering the majority of players, for the sake of targetting farmers.
People should consider those 'farmers' are a SIGNIFICANT part of the ing-game economy, just as oil helps to keep the car running smoothly, farmers are an equalizeer for any potential 'drought' in the economy of the game.
Most of you reading this, if you have ever bought a purple, have likely bought at elast 1 purple that was the result fo someone farming it
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With farmers, more infamy and recipes are being driven into the black market (which with a player-driven economy is important)
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That's an oversimplification. Farmers generate stuff, but they also generate demand. Kinds of farming that predominantly generate stuff (i12 ITF spamming, say) probably reduces stuff prices - but to assume that the current kind of farming (which also is boosting people to L50 in no time at all) produces more stuff than demand is quite unjustified.
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A lack of purples, we could reasonably assume would deter people from making new characters because they won't be able to squeeze the absolute potential from their characters.
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Can we reasonably assume that? It has never once crossed my mind to care whether I'll be able to munchkin out a character I'm effectively finished with.
Seems to me that the purples are there to satisfy people who like the kind of press-lever-for-food-pellet grinding that typifies WoW. I see why NC want those customers, but I doubt they are the majority in a game which never used to have any of that nonsense at all; and the very nature of that gameplay is that the rewards can be spun out very thinly. The last thing you want, if you're trying to harness that kind of obsessiveness, is an easy way to get purples.
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if in the worst scenario possible, the market runs dry
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... which it never did pre-MA, so why should it post-MA-farming?
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Like i keep saying to the devs: what can be farmed, WILL be farmed, at LEAST by SOME people.
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What an amazing insight. I'm sure that will come as news to them and they will value your input.
To eliminate farmers would eliminate demand too right, so when everyone is swimming in purples unable to find people to sell them too, because everyone is all purpled out, that will be a great alternate reality right?
What crosses YOUR mind, is not really relevant. The differences between our claims is mine was based on a viewpoint that it is common knowledge harcore pvpers hold this view, and many players who like to farm hold this view. Your claim was based on your personal viewpoint alone.
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It doesn't mean this at all.
Originally, when arcs were being marked as invalid (due to patches invalidating arcs and due to the bug where accessing missions from a server with a different language wrongly marked an arc as invalid) they did not appear on the search/browse listings. The same happened (and should still happen) if an arc is auto-pulled due to crossing the complaints threshold.
I'd imagine the same sort of system will be used with banned & locked arcs existing on the servers and taking up a space but being hidden from the public. So search will improve and appropriate content will be easier to find.
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If it doesn't, it needs to be fixed because a lot of the farm missions are still on the mission list, fully selectable but not playable. Pressing play and accepting produces no effect. If they're going to remove them, then remove them properly: get them off the MA list and leave it for the "appropriate" MA missions only.
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
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What crosses YOUR mind, is not really relevant. The differences between our claims is mine was based on a viewpoint that it is common knowledge harcore pvpers hold this view, and many players who like to farm hold this view. Your claim was based on your personal viewpoint alone.
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Well that's me convinced you weren't arguing your own, self interested viewpoint instead; Of course, centuries of economic investigation of Inflationary Pressure, and now nearly 12 years of MMO economic experience which seem to have resulted in every new MMO using Soulbound/Non Transferable loot and mechanisms for removing currency permanently from the economy don't count much against what "hardcore pvpers" apparently think I know...
But let me see if I've got your economic model down correctly; On the locked thread you said;
"Infamy farmers may buy purples from people who have successfully farmed recipes, for example."
So your argument is that farmers can buy from farmers. So let's say we have someone who plays in ways which don't generate either influence or recipes at the same rate as which farmers do; let's say someone who plays content for it's own sake, levels up the normal way etc. Where do they fit into your brilliantly inclusive economic model, I wonder?
They of course can STILL drop purples, still trade and buy of course. What are you trying to infer i'm saying?
I did not at any point claim a game based on a player-driven economy is entirely dependant on farming. Never at one point did i claim that.
Players fit in by virtue of the fact they contribute by putting recipes and infamy into the economy, and trade with each other the same way the farmers do.
What i am saying is, farmers are still a contribution.
To ban/punish/lock farmers out or single them out from the majority of players is a malicious, even tyrannical action by NCsoft.
THE LAST thing this game needs is MORE people quitting.
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Players fit in by virtue of the fact they contribute by putting recipes and infamy into the economy, and trade with each other the same way the farmers do.
What i am saying is, farmers are still a contribution.
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Ahah, now we are getting somewhere. So we've two different economic approaches operating within one over-arching marketplace. Which one I wonder do you say would be the most numerous in terms of individuals within both those groupings, the Casual or the Farmer?
And the next question then is; Which element of the market generates more Purples or Infamy (or Influence, if you aren't so focused on being a villain)...? Thus following on from that, which element then will do more to set the prices upon the market? Because basic human nature question; will people ask for what the average person can afford for their goods... or the highest the market can bear?
I feel that farmers, grinding for a longer period of time, logically would have a higher chance of recieving purples as drops. On this basis, one could argue they put more purples into the market.
However, as for the entire amount of purples collected by farmers, and casual players, i don't have any data to conclude if either side produces more than the other.
Also, in regards to what generates more economic exchange in the market, i would argue the most valuable things are what people are aiming to buy; this can be argued on the assumption people want to buy purples because purples are usually the enhancements that will significantly improve their characters.
Although i am not fully informed on this, i am going to say purples are definately the most valuable commodity on the market, but due to the sheer number of other items on the market, without any data, i can't say what item generates more interest.
I would say IO's, and everyday items definately have a significant input.
Isn't it ironic how most 50's that are lively used are farmers or partake in the activity, i.e farming is considered almost a end-game content function. And you can't disregard it, I've played many a farm with hundreds of 50's who just want to do something.
Fury
Thanks for contributing fury.
No one should underestimate farming as a social function. The amount of times i've met some of my global friends farming is amazing.
This is another reason to support farming, and one that had escaped my mind, Thanks for helping to strengthen the argument FOR farming.
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If that Brute was from 1-50 over 3 days, it might be better to keep quiet about it right now
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Hehe
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