I don't know what ELSE to do about spawn problems.
By
3dent,
Posted on: 2009-04-22 08:14 in Mission Architect
Have you tried changing the map? The only spawning problems I've encountered have been with bad spawn points on certain maps.
"The Hamidon is a what what of what?" - Brian the mission guy.
I had a similar problem when I was testing an arc using the Widow Tower map. No sign of the hostage. The map completely ignores the front setting for the hostage. What seemed to happen was that it had actually spawned the hostage and the mobs around it right at the back of the map on a raised platform that was all but invisible from below. I only found out about it when the mobs spotted me and jumped down to attack. Eventually I had to make the hostage/ally a non-essential part of the mission because I really wanted to use that map.
Also had a similar thing with glowies, they spawn all over the place. I've had them spawn inside scenery with just a corner showing.
I think they're going to have to revise their plan about not allowing us to place things in specific places because the current system is too bug prone.
I really don't know if there is, as i had same problem with one of the destructable objects on one of my missions. Both that and not fitting into size limit made me gave up that arc completely. 
I hope someone gives a clue or devs fix it soon.
This seems to happen on outdoor maps more often than indoor ones.
Twice. They're from the same set thjough, (office to sewers) and regular offices of the right size, layout and spawn capacity are simply not there. (although CoH office, Small #12 looks almost right, it has just enough spawn points to show there's no errorrs, and that's not good. Plus, for some odd reason it was reverted back to office sewers after a few edits. I didn't it, MA itself did.)
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This seems to happen on outdoor maps more often than indoor ones.
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Actually that happened to me when i turned my map to indoor one. Original one was an outdoor Croatoa map (the one you save Red Cap hostages) but i thought that map is too damn big. Then changed it to a Rikti Cave map but that didn't feel right with the concept also there were that invisible glowie bug so i changed back to Katie Hannon TF map (Outdoor Croatoa) where invisible object bug followed. Frustrated and gave up....
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I had a similar problem when I was testing an arc using the Widow Tower map. No sign of the hostage. The map completely ignores the front setting for the hostage. What seemed to happen was that it had actually spawned the hostage and the mobs around it right at the back of the map on a raised platform that was all but invisible from below.
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Check the map description. I'm at work and can't check, but I suspect the map you are using has no "front" spawn points of the kind that can take hostages, so it is using the only available valid spawn point. - the location you are describing is where Ghost Widow is when you have to rescue her.
I really should do something about this signature.
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A very simple mish (click a glowie, rescue 3 hostages, defeat a boss) in my arc somehow fails to spawn one of the hostages from time to time, and/or makes one of the hostages invisible.
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It's pssible that this is related to the defendable object bug we found last week. Hostages use the same kind of spawn point as defendable objects. It may be "invisible" because it is superimposed on an identical hostage.
I really should do something about this signature.
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I had a similar problem when I was testing an arc using the Widow Tower map. No sign of the hostage. The map completely ignores the front setting for the hostage. What seemed to happen was that it had actually spawned the hostage and the mobs around it right at the back of the map on a raised platform that was all but invisible from below.
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Check the map description. I'm at work and can't check, but I suspect the map you are using has no "front" spawn points of the kind that can take hostages, so it is using the only available valid spawn point. - the location you are describing is where Ghost Widow is when you have to rescue her.
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Strange thing is the hostage spawned in a different place the first time I tested it. I'm wondering if I accidentally changed the map, just remembered there were two Widow Tower maps. I'll have to check which one I'm using and give the other one a try.
I think there are two entries for the same map.
Anyone got the game in front of them and can check the spawn point info for the Widow Tower map?
I really should do something about this signature.
I think the unique maps are frequently bugged and will often not work reliably with given mission goals as these maps have been made for a single, specific use. There wasn't, until the arrival of the MA, any point in making them robust or to test them outside of the one particular mission they were paired with.
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I think there are two entries for the same map.
Anyone got the game in front of them and can check the spawn point info for the Widow Tower map?
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I've just checked, I need to use the Widow Tower map which does appear to allow a front spawn (it works anyway!). Although I can select the right map and save it to a local file, the moment the arc is published, it changes back to the Mercy Island Widow Tower map. Frustrating to say the least.
I think it would be worth filing an in game /bug report on that.
Errors in map ID could be causing some of the other bugs described here.
I really should do something about this signature.
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A very simple mish (click a glowie, rescue 3 hostages, defeat a boss) in my arc somehow fails to spawn one of the hostages from time to time, and/or makes one of the hostages invisible.
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It's pssible that this is related to the defendable object bug we found last week. Hostages use the same kind of spawn point as defendable objects. It may be "invisible" because it is superimposed on an identical hostage.
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No - I tested this for the OP last night.
I could find 2 hostages and the mobs surrounding each one were using their boomboxes. There was another group of mobs using a boombox emote, but no apparent hostage there, just enemy mobs.
Upon defeating these boombox-using enemies I saw a speechbubble go racing off - no visible mob, just the speechbubble. This looks like a true invisible mob. And, IIRC, there were no ambushes in that mission.
Now I did mention to the OP that I believe the cases when the hostage has been reported as not spawning at all may actually be invisible spawns: even when the guards are defeated you need to go near the hostage to 'trigger' their rescue. If the mob spawns as invisible and the guards are pulled and defeated away from the invisible spawn then it's possible that you won't rescue the hostage as you are too far away.
For me, the invisible hostage spawned near (not quite in, but near) a dead end in an office building. If I hadn't jumped near enough to accidentally trigger the rescue as I delivered the killing blow to the last guard mob, then I probably wouldn't have rescued the hostage as I could see it was a dead end with no glowies/mobs so I wouldn't have gone near enough to the hostage.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
This sounds a bit like something I encountered on a mission that used the Atlas Park (Ruined) map. Only in this case i had the hostage but not the guards.
The hostage appeared to be in the indoor section, at the end of the corrador, but the guards where missing, so i couldn't rescue him. When I tried summoning pets at the hostage location, they disapreared, apparantly transported somewhere outside the map boundary. Hypothosis: map hole. Although I wasn't able to jump though it myself.
I really should do something about this signature.
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I think it would be worth filing an in game /bug report on that.
Errors in map ID could be causing some of the other bugs described here.
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Have done so. In the meantime I've left the hostage/ally as none essential. If it gets rescued it can help the player, otherwise it doesn't really matter. I've used a few unique maps and not had this particular problem on any other.
Well, you seem to have found the cause of that problem, if not a satiscactory solution.
We really need to track down 3dent's problem. Is it the map, or is it the choice of hostage, or is it file corruption on upload?
I really should do something about this signature.
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for some odd reason it was reverted back to office sewers after a few edits. I didn't it, MA itself did
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That sounds very similar to a problem I have with the MA changing my maps to suit itself. There are two Widow Tower maps, it insists on using the one which doesn't allow spawn points to be specified. If it's changing your maps as well, that could explain the spawn problems.
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No - I tested this for the OP last night.
I could find 2 hostages and the mobs surrounding each one were using their boomboxes. There was another group of mobs using a boombox emote, but no apparent hostage there, just enemy mobs.
Upon defeating these boombox-using enemies I saw a speechbubble go racing off - no visible mob, just the speechbubble. This looks like a true invisible mob. And, IIRC, there were no ambushes in that mission.
Now I did mention to the OP that I believe the cases when the hostage has been reported as not spawning at all may actually be invisible spawns: even when the guards are defeated you need to go near the hostage to 'trigger' their rescue. If the mob spawns as invisible and the guards are pulled and defeated away from the invisible spawn then it's possible that you won't rescue the hostage as you are too far away.
For me, the invisible hostage spawned near (not quite in, but near) a dead end in an office building. If I hadn't jumped near enough to accidentally trigger the rescue as I delivered the killing blow to the last guard mob, then I probably wouldn't have rescued the hostage as I could see it was a dead end with no glowies/mobs so I wouldn't have gone near enough to the hostage.
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Thanks again for your help!
A few clarifications.
1) there was an ambush when you click a glowie. If there weren't any, that's another misspawn. (sorry, forgot to mention it in the OP)
2) I've seen that bug you described now, and it's a bit different from the failed spawns I've seen more often, - in those, hostages counter resets to 2 right upon entering the mish, but you don't get "hostage rescued" chat (all 3 cops have it) all other objectives are there, and if you complete them you're left with an empty objective list, but the mission doesn't complete.
I'm almost tempted to make hostages non-required now, but since further missions assume you've met them this may cause other problems...
Do you get the same problem if you use a different mob as the hostage?
I really should do something about this signature.
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Do you get the same problem if you use a different mob as the hostage?
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Learning for sure requires more time than I have at the moment, given that both bugs don't always happen. But that too may be an useful test...
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1) there was an ambush when you click a glowie. If there weren't any, that's another misspawn. (sorry, forgot to mention it in the OP)
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Actually there was an ambush - it was so early in th emission I clicked the glowy that I forgot about it!
It was certainly spawned well away from where the problem, invisible hostage was.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
I think I've figured (part of) it out, as I told in the chat last night. As PRAF68 suspected, it's definitely hostage mobs themselves.
A. When a hostage actually fails to spawn, his guards do. They use the emote, they speak their lines, but they don't guard anyone, not even an invisible source of chat bubbles.
B. I tried to change PPD to a custom group, - no failures in dozen tries.
i haven't got time, and didn't want to butcher a published arc too much, so I don't know yet whether it's because of random mobs, random PPD mobs, all PPD mobs, one specific PPD mob, or something else.
My guess would be that the use of a "Random" PPD mob is coming up with a mob ID with an invalid costume. Posibly something that was removed, but is still on the "random PPD" list.
I really should do something about this signature.
MA devs boasted that you can't create "Kobayashi maru"-type mission. But, as usual, they were absolutely wrong, nopt only you can do it, you can do it BY ACCIDENT, and you can't fix it!
A very simple mish (click a glowie, rescue 3 hostages, defeat a boss) in my arc somehow fails to spawn one of the hostages from time to time, and/or makes one of the hostages invisible.
I made the map bigger, removed all conditional triggers, quintiple-checked it... Still the very first feedback I've got was about that DAMN spawn failure.
Yesterday, I removed anything fancy that was in the rescue objectives themselves, thinking that maybe it's /em boombox I used or the fact that I didn't set enemy group for 2 of 3 captives caused it, - On the 3rd run I've got "invisible hostage" bug (earlirer I've got a report of one from Judgrement_Dave) That hostage is set to just a random PPD cop. (couldn't select a specific one, would mess up mish'level range. BTW, why the heck, non-escort, non-combt captive, not Ally, not Hostage, but basic captive has to affect THAT?)
After hours of that I ended up just sticking an ugly warning about the bug into the arc's descriptor, which probably will kill any chance of it ever being played. Are there any other ways?