Issue 14 Feedback: Mission Architect

Please post your feedback on the Mission Architect here.

You can read the Issue 14 Patch Notes here.

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An awesome new system for the game

SInce I14 went live, I've mostly been collecting the new badges, but I did quite a lot of mission stuff when it was in closed and open beta, and I think it's an extremely easy thing to use - I especially like the way you can see a list of errors, and then click them to take you to the parts that need fixing.

The only things I think could do with a bit of work is the search function, which seems to be a bit vague, and the ability to place items and bosses anywhere, rather than just the front/middle/back we have right now.

Also, map editing would be great, but I know it's really tough to do

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@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

First impression, from fooling around with it yesterday and today, is that the Mission Architect itself is very good. You have a lot of creative freedom in making missions and story archs and it's fairly intuitive and easy to figure out how it all works.

The interface is another story. It looks nice and gives good feedback, but the text-entry widgets are clumsy and awkward. Forgiveable for the character description screen, perhaps, but not for something as text-centric as mission creation. And again you've managed to prevent access to the chat window. MMOs are supposed to be social, and considering how long you can spend in the MA screen, it's absolutely unforgiveable to not let it coexist with the chat screen -- or at the very least give a quick way to toggle back and forth between chat and MA. (The same goes for the costume creator, by the way.)

The surrounding infrastructure: search, comments, grades etc. is absolutely dire. Practically useless, and obviously so. There's no excuse for such a poor showing. Did they even do a reqiurement analysis of it?

I'm not enthused with the "everything happens inside the AE building" idiom you've decided on. Paragon and the Rogue Isles are two of the most important "characters" in the game, and to completely separate the MA missions from them was a mistake. Location of mission doors and even the travel between missions is important. The game system already caters for missions that are not "really happening" but are still set in the cityscape through the Oroborous system, so I don't see any practical problems. (Okay, there is the issue of the custom-made contacts, but nothing that a few outdoors AE holographic platforms dotted around the city zones couldn't have solved.) Hopefully, we'll get to see free-roaming MA missions in the future.

I'm a little disappointed that we can't make new custom enemies based on existing, non-human models (such as jumpbots, Council drones and auto-turrets) but I can see the practical problems with trying to get that to work well.

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You can see chat if you shrink the MA window down.

Not when you're in costume creation, but you've got that problem in Icon at the moment anyway.

Feedback?

I'm holding off creating my missions right now until they get some of the bugs (which we've been pointing out since closed beta - what was the point in having it, if you didn't listen to the major gripes?).

Being able to play my SoA without losing the gun has kept my attention up until now.

I've ran through a few arcs that others have created and they range from the sublime to the horrible. The rating system needs work - 5 stars isn't enough. 5 stars for plot, enemies, setting etc. needs to be worked into the rating system.

Not being able to receive feedback is a major downer - I've seen people not being able to improve on their arcs, because no one leaves feedback. Sod how inconvenient it is - don't allow that feedback window to be closed until they've sent some (and if it's just "sjdkjskdj", then that person should be blocked from using the MA until they've learned how to communicate - harsh, I know. The author and the game support staff can deal with the comments on the mission using the petition system if it needs to go that far.)

And can we work out some way to get US feedback appearing over here? I think that's probably a large source of the "missing" feedback too.

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"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon

Myopic Aardvark on Twitter

[ QUOTE ]
You can see chat if you shrink the MA window down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh. Didn't realise it was shrinkable. I'll withdraw that complaint then.

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loving it shame i have no creative skill of my own, at least i have thousands of arcs to play, would love if npc or veat costume pieces were added to the ticket vendor.

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So far, the MA itself is pretty good. The only real problem with the MA designer is that we don't have patrol/talk missions (yes, they're annoying, but I would use them sparringly).

The MA search engine? Not fit. When you're trying to search specific names like um AG (yes that's a real character name) you just get 20+ pages of arcs with a and g in them. Not really good is it.

There's also a bit too many bugs to justify the realase. For example, you can't use brackets (this may apply to all special characters)/colours in nav objectives. If you do, it won't show up on the nav. Which is terribly annoying if you're trying to say (Optional) with the Optional in red text.

Overall, the MA is good, but just has a few blips in the system that doesn't make it reach it's full potential.

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I actually hated the idea of the MA, and it did not interest me at all, but I must admit, I have returned after a few week break and am enjoying it.

One thing though, I dont see why a team cant all join in a mission without having to be in RWZ if they are different. Surely, being in an MA building should be enough.

Oh, and that there are so many missions that getting your mission even played is a nightmare unless you have loads of friends ingame, what if all ur sg has left?

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Zhaan, Chakyra, Fiorina 161, Aeryn, Polly Nation, Dee Pression, Shazanne, Night Jester and too many more to mention.

Network Hell 47640
Valley of the Harpies 74519
Green and Pleasant Land 75966

MA is great.
But it needs more work.
The cape bug, with randomly vanishing capes, still there. Lack of indication of WHICH is the Front, Middle and Back of a mission is practically Heresy. The problems with the text segments, the lagginess and gltichiness of them, which has also spread to Character Description boxes.

And the fact of being stuck within the MA building. Thats bad right there. The comment and feedback system is currently broken, it seems, the 'browser' and search functions are, on a running theme with things, broken (like the forum search).
No VEAT and HEAT powers or costumes. No option to customise existing NPC enemies with new powers or at least make them different levels. For example, wanted my end Boss in an arc to be an AV, with the MM pets used as seperate and strong entities. So an actual Boss level Assault bot, LT Protectors, etc.

The biggest gripe is the A.I. still being appalling. It really is. You can set a Boss to stand and fight, and he will run. Melee characters will run away. Ranged characters will stand and fight to the bitter end.

I still love it. But upgrades are good, and in some cases needed badly.

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What I liked:
1) MA building itself. Exquisite design!
2) Functionality that is available. Not that I don't want more, but what is already there is amazing.
3) Ticket system.

What I didn't
1) Text widget. please, please, please, oh please fix that darn text widget. And please, make it understand "left-handed" shortcuts (Ctrl-insert, Shift-Delete, Shift-insert) Delete key, pretty please add undo/redo functionnality, Also widget should clearly indicate whether <br>, other tags and $ubstitutions are supported for this field. In other words, make it at least as good as Notepad.

2) UI in general. Scroll wheels that don't scroll, listboxes poping up when you did not click on them, when it does scroll it does so slowwly, etc. Didn't check if UI is skinnable if it is, other major complaint, - that text is white-on-black instead of the other way around is moot.

2) Search system. It's horrtible.

3) Ticket/badging system. IIRC, there was an interview where it was stated that new player should not see "10 badges in 5 minutes" type missions on the front page, or preferably anywhere. Yet it's almost exactly what we have now. I'm not anti-farming as such, but this cluttter of farming mishes plus horrid search make MA much less than it could be.

Ok, those are the major praises/complaints.

P.S. I'd like to have dependable way to get more slots as much as the next person, but I understand why it isn't here.

(getting multiple accounts is not really the same it complicates management and costs a tad too much if you don't use 2nd account for something else besides MA)

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let's be the guy with wishes..

i think MA is half made, horrible, just a basic generator with some text lines.
make your own mission my butt, i can't even create my own map, let alone how the mission is supposed to work.
let's list what should've bin in to make it an actual mission creator, and not a mission generator.

1.)a mission map creator, similar to that of the bas creator.
for outside missions, a wall line drawer so you can point out what area you want to use for your mission.

2.) plan enemy path's, one where you can say here is an enemy and he is saying X thing and walks with X emote.
i want to create 2 enemy's walking the hallway, talking with each other like you would on the street explaining something.

3.)plan the spawns, i want to say where and what is spawning.
also, if i want an item to be guarded, the game should generate the correct amount.(currently, even saying 1 still spawns 2 enemy's, i did not ask for that)

4.) give us the option to make a puzzle, one where you can say you need to pull switch 1 and 2 before you can even get to the item you need to take/destroy.
or have it that this switch does not only open a door, it will also disable a turret.(which kills you in 1-2 shots, just to make it difficult)

5.)be able to limit the mission on party size, so the mission can be made without the worry of an 8 man team spoiling the whole point of the mission.

now let the flames come

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[ QUOTE ]
now let the flames come

[/ QUOTE ]

You do know that saying that doesn't automatically invalidate everyone who disagrees with your opinion, right?

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"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon

Myopic Aardvark on Twitter

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
now let the flames come

[/ QUOTE ]

You do know that saying that doesn't automatically invalidate everyone who disagrees with your opinion, right?

[/ QUOTE ]
that's not it, i'm just used to have ppl flame me the second i write a truth.
i just have a nature of saying what others think, but some flame back to hide there shame.

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You do realize that this is practically Farmers Manifesto? I wholly agree with the map editor, mind you, and that talk scripts should be much more flexible, but the rest would pretty much break it. Not just because of farming but because people expect certain behaviors from the game, mobs, etc. Yes, that's the limit, but that's also why I think MA-like games would be better than, say, fanfics. You have builtin quality control in the game mechanics like what exactly glowie does.

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
now let the flames come

[/ QUOTE ]

You do know that saying that doesn't automatically invalidate everyone who disagrees with your opinion, right?

[/ QUOTE ]
that's not it, i'm just used to have ppl flame me the second i write a truth.
i just have a nature of saying what others think, but some flame back to hide there shame.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you write a truth? Wait...you're saying your opinon (it very obviously is) is true? Hate to say it, but opinons can't be 'true'.

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
now let the flames come

[/ QUOTE ]

You do know that saying that doesn't automatically invalidate everyone who disagrees with your opinion, right?

[/ QUOTE ]
that's not it, i'm just used to have ppl flame me the second i write a truth.
i just have a nature of saying what others think, but some flame back to hide there shame.

[/ QUOTE ]

And if that's a veiled moan about a reply to yours on the Magic booster thread, I notice you didn't respond on there after we all had a go back at your post. It was nothing to do with "truth", more to do with your attitude regarding others misfortune.

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Zhaan, Chakyra, Fiorina 161, Aeryn, Polly Nation, Dee Pression, Shazanne, Night Jester and too many more to mention.

Network Hell 47640
Valley of the Harpies 74519
Green and Pleasant Land 75966

I actually like the ideas.
If they could be done, could lead to much better story and stuff for MA missions.

Second, STOP breaking the damn thing just to stop farmers. If the Devs care THAT damn much, they should police the thing themselves! /rant

Third, Sorudo, stop fishing for compliments/sympathy/trolling comments. Your opinion does not equal truth. It equals your opinion.
/End

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Okay, having spent a weekend playing around with the MA, here's my slight more informed feedback:

The Architect itself: Absolutely love it to bits. Yes it has its rough spots and yes there are quite a few bugs and yes there is a lot of functionality we want to see added, but in the end none of that really matters because when you get down to it the architect works and it works well. The tool just feels right: it feels like you're working on your story and not fighting with the tool.

The AE building: Looks rather drab and boring on the outside (although the upper story entrances were a nice and practical touch), but the inside is well laid out and works splendidly. I still don't the "never leave the building" idiom that the AE missions are forced into, but at least the AE building makes the idiom work with a minimum of fuss. The audio designer who came up with the sample for the AE core needs to be taken out behind the barn and shot, though. (Oh, and on that subject: when a loading screen pops up while a looping sample is playing? Fade the cursed thing out!) At least you can escape the sample if you use the outer rings of terminals.

Mission browser, searching, grading and feedback: Absolutely inexcusable. The current system is naive, simplistic and entirely unsuited for its task. It is essentially useless and does all the fundamentals wrong. Considering you postponed the AE and spent an additional whole issue's worth of work before launching, the utter primitiveness of the supporting infrastructure is embarassing: if you're not ashamed by it, you should be.

AE Tickets Another reward system? What's the point? There wouldn't be any practical difference if AE missions just gave ordinary merits.

AE Reward levels Are you absolutely out of your collective minds! [u]Full[u] rewards for AE missions? When AE missions are easier, quicker (as there is no travel of any kind), more convenient and more controllable than regular missions? If you'd started with half rewards you could always have boosted them later on without the forums erupting in doomageddon (again). More importantly, you could have encouraged the players to use the AE system for stories.

AE Badges: Holy badge overload, Batman! And I thought the Invention system had too many similar badges. You've also lowered the bar for the first tier badges far too low. A badge for defeating 10 enemies in test mode? For rescuing 1 kidnap victim? For earning 100 tickets? That's just pointless.

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NO badges are EVER pointless

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@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

That may be true Golden_Girl, but these ones are.

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Contact Information!

Twitter: @TonyParkeze

Facebook: www.facebook.com/anthonyjp91

Email: anthonyjp91@gmail.com

AE Tickets are one of the bits I actually like.
No longer do I have to put up with the ludicrous prices the Vendors charge. Instead, I can be in those magic green numbers All. The. Time.
Up yours, Stores and Arbiters.

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Actually there's some very good ideas there, just not practical at the moment.

[ QUOTE ]
1.)a mission map creator, similar to that of the bas creator.
for outside missions, a wall line drawer so you can point out what area you want to use for your mission.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would love to build my own map. I spent ages playing with base editors and getting sg bases juuust right. Downside is, it doesn't work properly. People crash when entering bases, the bases rearrange themselves, things are valid one second and not the next. Although one thing that would be nice is to be able to plug together the tileset pieces that are used to create normal missions, but again you are wandering back into the realms of the base editor crashes.

[ QUOTE ]
2.) plan enemy path's, one where you can say here is an enemy and he is saying X thing and walks with X emote.
i want to create 2 enemy's walking the hallway, talking with each other like you would on the street explaining something.

3.)plan the spawns, i want to say where and what is spawning.
also, if i want an item to be guarded, the game should generate the correct amount.(currently, even saying 1 still spawns 2 enemy's, i did not ask for that)

[/ QUOTE ]

These pretty much go together, I think having so much control over the spawn placings would be sailing towards massive farms. The coding that would be needed to prevent people turning placeable spawns into farms would be amazing. Would be damn nice to be able to design in such specific detail though.

As I see it the problem with the mission editor is that the idiots and farmers will spoil it for the rest. Personally I would like the same degree of control in the MA as I get when building an unreal map. Bot pathing can be great fun to do especially if you want some weirdness happening. Unfortunately that would open up a whole vista of farms and exploits that are not worth the effort of plugging. So what we have now is MA 1.0 I am guessing, but it is probably a reasonable bet, that when all the bugs in the MA settle down there will be more features and addons coming that will improve the MA experience.

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Well the search feature is as bad as I suspected it would be, the amount of farming is the level I predicted. The overreaction to farming I didn't necessarily suspect, but every victory over farming seems to be annoying more and more of the genuine architects. I can see it going the way of the Shadow Shards if the current focus on limiting power levelling by limiting creative choice continues.

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"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"

The things they're taking out aren't being taken out for good - just until they fix them so they can't be exploited.

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@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

[ QUOTE ]
The things they're taking out aren't being taken out for good - just until they fix them so they can't be exploited.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Nothing is as permanent as a temporary tax," though.

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