All tanker primaries have holes and penalties.
Defence based armors usually have good survivability until you get a cascading defence failure.
Perma granite, my style 
My primairy goal was to get rid of as much of the penalties as possible. Thus 3slot swift to get granite 'walkable', teleport when rooted gets added.
Enough LotG's and set (doctored wounds?) recharge bonus to hit about 50-60% to counter the -recharge. Followed up by some extra defence/resist on the non-SL side, combined with increase HP regen and focus on cap HP (with EE).
In perma granite you have way more powerslots available to get 'filler' powers for IO's or solobility.
By now, very little can take me down. Psi, still being nasty, but pop a few purple and greens and you can overcome that, and i tanked about everything in the game by now.
I am SS however, there was no dark back then 
Even though, out of granite having perma hasten/EE/rage, is nice to have.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
Ye def going for Perma Granite, Dark would make it just that little bit more silly difficult to kill... Soul drain is a nice +Dmg+Tohitt, however akk my tanks have been SS so i dare say that I'd miss Rage.
However i was quite worried about, Rage Crash, End Crash drop outta Grantie and become flying mince infront of a 7 man team of blaster and defenders that could have taken more damage xD
So /Dark is becoming very appealing.
Pretty much will become an exercise in penalty reduction i guess.
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
Always keepa blue spare
Against drainers, be sure to keep rooted on, as that gives drain resistance and works very well.
(my initial build was footstomp -> aid self, remarkable usefull).
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
Your icetank with a different player could be found tanking the "cant be tanked" with some slightly different slotting.
I imagine you to be one of those people with a lot of characters and too little time to fine tweak stuff in pve as much as you would pvp. If you could take on the pvp mindset and put it into pve I reckon the icetank would be good enough. The games made up of stuff that some tanks find easier than others but its not a case of there being content that can't be done its a case of some tanks will have more to think about and learn from than others.
The lucky streaks happen so you can decide on taking half an alpha, pulling, controlling, allowing some control from someone else initially, allowing some tankmaging by a really good defender. If you can aim to learn from experiences or look at enemies to overcome in PvE like you would in pvp with a non fotm, you prolly not need to change.
But any excuse for a new tanky is good.
Build anything and then we can see what you prioritize.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
You have been unlucky, Donna. Simple as that. Ice is a very survivable primary for a tank but, as with all defence sets, you are always at the mercy of a random unlucky streak of hits and, on ITF where a large percentage of attacks that hit you will debuff you defence, an unlucky streak is going to really hurt.
But I certainly wouldn't give up with ice because of a bad experience early doors. It's a superb set. My advice would be to keep a window open to monitor your defence levels, and when you see a cascade defence failure starting hit a purple or two to top it up back to a survivable level. I have just finished a /energy aura Brute and that tactic worked very well for me. It wasn't always needed, just against foes with defence debuffs, but it saved me plenty of face plantage.
I'd stick with it. Granite's are highly survivable but boy was it a mind-numbing experiene to reduce yourself to basically a rock almost incapable of movement and giving yourself a -recharge penalty. I found ice a far more enjoyable and action packed tank than my granite, and generally highly survivable too.
[ QUOTE ]
I had spent 700Million on a few essentials.
[/ QUOTE ]
!!!
My Ice tank does better with just SOs (in my build on test).
Always monitoring you defense value is very good advice. It's also a good idea to know the capabilities of the mobs you are fighting, so you can anticipate problems and use insps before hand. Guys with broadswords have -def. Not hard to know that, and to know that -def can't hurt you until it hits you, so make sure you use purples to keep yourself at the def cap.
I really should do something about this signature.
[ QUOTE ]
I'd stick with it. Granite's are highly survivable but boy was it a mind-numbing experiene to reduce yourself to basically a rock almost incapable of movement and giving yourself a -recharge penalty. I found ice a far more enjoyable and action packed tank than my granite, and generally highly survivable too.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dispite that (it may very on play style), ice just cant reach the "IAMTEHUBER NUFINHURTSME" feeling.
I just cant understand why people keep saying 'unmovable', while that is only the case while rooted. Specialy with a kin you move just as fast as any other, nulifying that whole issue. In granite alone you have about normal running speed wich is often good enough.
There is no set, no power, no outfit more suitable to reach the "IAMTEHUBER NUFINHURTSME" feeling then the big pile of rocks. Its huge, its scary.. its close to immortal. And those 3 penalties will never take away that feeling.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
DM benefits highly of recharge, something stone penalises.
I would say a softcap typed invul/dm could be stupid survivable
Granite has no ability to jump, I wouldn't play granite as a tank as most of my combat movement I do through CJ on my melee characters. I have one exception in my DM/SR scrapper which is concept based rather than powerset anyway. The rest of Granite's downsides I could cope with, but this is the MMO where you can use leaping well in combat, to decide to throw that away...............
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
bunnyhop herding rocks
I'll be using TP as my main and only power. Happy with this as I am looking for an immovable force theme type Tank.
Got a good build, but seems to be nothing I can do about Psi Damage :/
Again, Main Question from thread was,
Is there a tougher to kill build? Would i be better with WP or Invul?
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
Pretty much every build has a hole, if you take the -recharge, -slow and -jump/fly for granted you overcome the big hole on perma granite.
I think a full IO inv set would do also pretty good, SL cap, trashload of defence (if mobs in melee) and quite a decent resist on non-SL. But i believe they also have no psi resist/defence.
Both have the HP boost, very good in cases you do get low on health, wich WP kinda lacks. Even fire can be quite decent, but -recharge will affect healing flame imho too much.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
Isn't Invul as bad or worse against Psi?
WP has fewer holes but is a bit worse at taking alphas and holding aggro. And anything that does -regen will make you weep (based on personal experiences on my scrapper with a Test custom Cold critter with Benumb).
Overall Granite tanks are the toughest to kill afaik. That doesn't mean they are god mode against everything in the game though, but they are the toughest things to kill.
[ QUOTE ]
Got a good build, but seems to be nothing I can do about Psi Damage :/
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats what minerals is for.
Mind of Gaia lvl 50 Defiant's first Mind/Storm 'troller.
Deadly Doc 50 Dark/Dark Corr
and lots more on Pinnacle,Union and Defiant
Minerals cannot be used in Granite.
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
No but you can use it when tanking psi enemies.
Would Invul with Impervium Armour IO's 6 slotted in 5 res powers not give a good overall res to all inc psi?
Dunno if i'd have the slots for that tho :/
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
[ QUOTE ]
Would Invul with Impervium Armour IO's 6 slotted in 5 res powers not give a good overall res to all inc psi?
Dunno if i'd have the slots for that tho :/
[/ QUOTE ]
I only have 2 res powers, depending on your powerchoice you can increase this by 2.
I have granite/stoneskin as res, optional are Tough and that embrace armor (fire resist one).
But what are the odds you face a huge ammount of psi damage without any (healing) backup? Cheaper just to pop a purple then.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
If you want to tank Psi in Stone Armour then you drop out of Granite and hit minerals. You don't have to stay in Granite the whole time. I think that Minerals gives just under 40% def to Psi when slotted with 3 defs, get a Steadfast + def in there too and you have 43% def to psi. If you are facing other damage types on the same mission as Psi then hit another couple of toggles too.
Was looking into other avenues for the Ultimate godmode tank, how does this look?
compared to granite tank?
Not super high res, but I have 2x heals, 1 every 12s and 1 every 4s.
And 2 x +Endurance, 2 every 55s and
2 x Damage and to hit boosts.
Pretty proud of the build so what you think ?
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1388;672;1344;HEX;|
|78DAA5945B4F135110C74FBB5B4BE996524B2FDCE452A0B4D 0A5780BB7C4180BDEA|
|8364A7C529B150F502185B43591373F80894F3EFA418C4FDE E2AB8FEAE730C618A5|
|CECCFF40823EBA69FFBFED9CFF9999339B6DF949C951EAE90 5E5732EED78CD6675C|
|DAB6FEB46A0EC6DD6D6555029D58B48B5A43774BDA9DD959A 6EEC572F3E6E7829B3|
|52D63B5ABB25AFB18DDBD8D5FA966EE87ACB3DBC712ABBBB3 BB4B355D7CD66A7FCB|
|8BDA7F5C388896F6EB56AF54DB856B5B7473F62CB7BB575B7 B2DFD0D5B2D76C51CD|
|343593A3EF9B10898FBEAA6D2B976E66D5A9BC60B820182B0 A0A69C2A0FACE7665E|
|C137EB1678149C1700EC80BDE92DD87EC01DF7549E45F05CA 82EE1BC04DC14045F0|
|837659A688352789EC796041706211580268B001145181365 DEA3D2508CAA9DA76F|
|085983A9E037D8AD135050C0B4629410809FC21AC741EC307 CA1736430A633A0E66|
|E56048190C690C43CA50BE08ECBEC822C1B6D4806190D6A2A 6D9E835BAC9AA9F943|
|D668E1B8B5B9CE8640F90102493404AD04119E2A6DB380ED0 730C7E3224904F2564|
|1E164552D862A5D07F1AFDA7D1FF08FAFF489DF49AD4BD0B6 8B8EF2FFE224FBF3CD|
|3B6D58F698E18605863C03BF20D9A9A83A89945CD2C6AE651 3349BD0D99810C2524|
|F49BB68EA2843D8AC797C1E3CBA0521E250A38EF01D9C7CDF CC697D0E5C423599AD|
|800B604D99AE0338D71D2F8274B9237B70CAC009705F92B82 2F649F32F6A969094D|
|1700179811148A82AF64778DDD3D2DA19933C059E09C60F6B CE01BFD611461F7173|
|F6105879CC52107ECA3378E3EFC3457FF89546CF30E53C427 919C7DF45AFFD7F5CA|
|39AC15BAD549BAC65261B9C37297E51ECB7D168FE501CB3A4 BFBF5D1EEE81C3734C|
|FB2C0B2C8F28C4DC1304998C56189B074B14459BA59E22C49 963E96972CED3FBC6D|
|F195|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|</pre><hr />
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I had spent 700Million on a few essentials.
[/ QUOTE ]
!!!
My Ice tank does better with just SOs (in my build on test).
Always monitoring you defense value is very good advice. It's also a good idea to know the capabilities of the mobs you are fighting, so you can anticipate problems and use insps before hand. Guys with broadswords have -def. Not hard to know that, and to know that -def can't hurt you until it hits you, so make sure you use purples to keep yourself at the def cap.
[/ QUOTE ]
Over a course of a TF full of def debuffs that can drop base def passed -45% with all the ambushes etc I do wonder how many insps could end up being needed. I think more than just watching your base def is a good idea. Bunny hops help as its in, leave taunt duration and out stuff, allow time for def debuffs to go before launching in for an alpha, make there be no alpha, controls work even single targets especially as the higher ranks tend to do the most -def. Its getting so common for people to drop a tank they cant passively tank with.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
Was looking into other avenues for the Ultimate godmode tank, how does this look?
compared to granite tank?
Not super high res, but I have 2x heals, 1 every 12s and 1 every 4s.
And 2 x +Endurance, 2 every 55s and
2 x Damage and to hit boosts.
Pretty proud of the build so what you think ?
[/ QUOTE ]
Fire still is a very nice set to have, i havent checked up with the recent temp.protection changes, but afaik fire dont have -drain protection.
I would add BA though, else you have nothing to rely on except taunt and your attacks for agro. In that line, inv/dark would be a nice one too (wich lacks the healing, but has alot more defence and a very nice oooooh [censored] button).
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
[ QUOTE ]
Its getting so common for people to drop a tank they cant passively tank with.
[/ QUOTE ]
Too true. I have found that tanking is the AT which is most highly dependant on experience and knowlwedge of the game. That's why I consider Stone tanks to be "tanking for dummies". Now I realise that there are plenty Stone tanks out there who's knowledge and experience are as good as anyone elses on the game and they can tank at a far higher level as a result, but stripping tanking down to it's most basic mandate of "take alpha ---> taunt ---> survive" and Granite gets the job done without the need for the experience and added expertise.
I have 5 level 50 tanks and I consider my Granite my least favourite by far. It is survivable to the extreme (I don't think there is any debate to be had about whether or not it is the most basic survivable tank primary in the game), but how often is the extreme really encountered in the game? I have found that with accumulated experience and knowledge there is very little indeed that I can achieve with my stoney that I can't with my other tanks (invul, WP, Ice, Sields) with similar ease. For me, good tanking will always be 95% technique and experience and then the actual build becomes a little trivial.
So i was really looking forward to my first ITF after my ICE/SS tank hit 50 and I had spent 700Million on a few essentials.
1st mob, Hoarfrost, Energy Adsorption, Taunt.... "What happened next"?
You got it, 0-Faceplant in about 8-9 seconds.
Feeling very very put out.
SO,
I was wanting to remake another tank, and I want the "IAMTEHUBER NUFINHURTSME" feeling.
And I was considering Stone / Dark / Stone
My reasoning behind this was,
1) Forever in Granite+Rooted+Mudpots,
2) PbAoe Endurance + +HP Attack!
3) Aoes for after Soul Drain
Can anyone give me some advice on how to create a tank that truly feels like it would take a small country to bring it to it's knees?
P.s - If there is a better set than Stone/Dark for survivability please also include.
Cheers,
Donna
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.