One problem with the current system is you can't get a +3/+4 EB by playing on Invincible, since it spawns as an AV instead.
I really should do something about this signature.
Question; Which builds can solo AVs? Because, from bitter experience, I have found said conflicts impossible.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Even on my SS/WP brute I sincerely welcomed the help
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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A SS/WB brute should storm though EBs like paper. I think you are doing something wrong.
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I know, I know. I am just hopeless! 
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I am certain that there are plenty people out there without those resources who will have to avoid missions like that. Thereby missing a nice part of the game.
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The EBs are what makes these missions interesting. Take away the EBs and they would still be missing a nice part of the game.
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EB's are indeed part of what this makes the game interesting and beating them is indeed fun. And I think I got most of them (most often in big teams but with the occasional solo action as well) That's why I don't want to ban them altogether. I just suggested an option to turn them of so I could smash interesting armies of villains to a pulp instead of having to go through white uninspiring mobs to get to the EB that i can't beat at +2 levels.
But nice well written story arcs are part of the game to. They ad variety to the game as well. And shouldn't everybody be able to sample those instead of a newspaper/radio boredom?
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Question; Which builds can solo AVs? Because, from bitter experience, I have found said conflicts impossible.
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Night Widows, /regen scrappers with high ST damage, /WP brutes, rad defenders. Quite a few others too.
I really should do something about this signature.
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having to go through white uninspiring mobs to get to the EB that i can't beat at +2 levels.
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Going through yellow/orange minions isn't any more inspiring than going though white minions though. I generally just ignore them unless they get between me and the EB.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Question; Which builds can solo AVs? Because, from bitter experience, I have found said conflicts impossible.
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Night Widows, /regen scrappers with high ST damage, /WP brutes, rad defenders. Quite a few others too.
[/ QUOTE ]Masterminds in general.
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Question; Which builds can solo AVs? Because, from bitter experience, I have found said conflicts impossible.
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Night Widows, /regen scrappers with high ST damage, /WP brutes, rad defenders. Quite a few others too.
[/ QUOTE ]Masterminds in general.
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I discovered bodyguard mode not long ago and decided to try to use it. I went shockingly through an EB like a hot knife so this might be true. I daresay it is worth a try.
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I am certain that there are plenty people out there without those resources who will have to avoid missions like that. Thereby missing a nice part of the game.
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The EBs are what makes these missions interesting. Take away the EBs and they would still be missing a nice part of the game.
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EB's are indeed part of what this makes the game interesting and beating them is indeed fun. And I think I got most of them (most often in big teams but with the occasional solo action as well) That's why I don't want to ban them altogether. I just suggested an option to turn them of so I could smash interesting armies of villains to a pulp instead of having to go through white uninspiring mobs to get to the EB that i can't beat at +2 levels.
But nice well written story arcs are part of the game to. They ad variety to the game as well. And shouldn't everybody be able to sample those instead of a newspaper/radio boredom?
[/ QUOTE ]The thing is, with these story arcs where there is an EB at the end it fits that they are of that level of power. Weakening them so they are no more of a threat than a regular Boss is like taking Vader and the Emperor in Return of the Jedi and replacing them with Dark Helmet and President Scroob. Sure the Stormtroopers will still offerthe same challenge but their all-powerful leaders become a joke.
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The thing is, with these story arcs where there is an EB at the end it fits that they are of that level of power. Weakening them so they are no more of a threat than a regular Boss is like taking Vader and the Emperor in Return of the Jedi and replacing them with Dark Helmet and President Scroob. Sure the Stormtroopers will still offerthe same challenge but their all-powerful leaders become a joke.
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Hey Dark Helmet was a challenge 
You got a good point here. But the same thing is happening already with a lot of the so called leaders you have to defeat so often (not even talking about the radio ones here). So why are those just bosses or lt's instead of EB's? Point is it is being done all the time. And they could still keep their special powers. Infernal would still be infernal and summon his demon horde of doom. If those are at +2 level then they would still be a major challenge to destroy.
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But the same thing is happening already with a lot of the so called leaders you have to defeat so often (not even talking about the radio ones here). So why are those just bosses or lt's instead of EB's?
[/ QUOTE ]Such as?
I can only think of one EB that was downgraded to Boss status (its name escapes me right now).
You're also neglecting that Infernal (and pretty much any other EB/AV/Hero) is some kind of demon summoning juggernaught. Lore wise he is a whole world of power beyond a simple CoT Death Mage.
It's like Longbow agents. Wardens and Officers are the lead field operatives with boss level power. However, when a "big gun" is needed they dispatch a "Ballista". To downgrade them to Boss level would defeat the purpose of their presence.
Another thing with the likes of Infernal and Calstix. They are dangerous because of thier ability to summon boss rank pets. Even downgraded, they would still be able to summon boss rank pets. Putting asside the oddness of minions being more powerful than thier master, it would mean that if you stuggle to defeat them at EB rank you would still find them difficult if doungraded to bosses.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Another thing with the likes of Infernal and Calstix. They are dangerous because of thier ability to summon boss rank pets. Even downgraded, they would still be able to summon boss rank pets. Putting asside the oddness of minions being more powerful than thier master, it would mean that if you stuggle to defeat them at EB rank you would still find them difficult if doungraded to bosses.
[/ QUOTE ]Infernal's demons only have Minion HP, don't they?
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But the same thing is happening already with a lot of the so called leaders you have to defeat so often (not even talking about the radio ones here). So why are those just bosses or lt's instead of EB's?
[/ QUOTE ]Such as?
I can only think of one EB that was downgraded to Boss status (its name escapes me right now).
You're also neglecting that Infernal (and pretty much any other EB/AV/Hero) is some kind of demon summoning juggernaught. Lore wise he is a whole world of power beyond a simple CoT Death Mage.
It's like Longbow agents. Wardens and Officers are the lead field operatives with boss level power. However, when a "big gun" is needed they dispatch a "Ballista". To downgrade them to Boss level would defeat the purpose of their presence.
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In a lot of arcs you will have to defeat boss huppeldepup. And instead of him being somebody big he is just a boss. It happens often enough in normal arcs. So a boss doesn't need to be an EB to be a boss. On the other hand why would the big bad boss suddenly be surrounded by flunkies (hero level) instead of his most trusted soldiers (invincible level)?
That also doesnt make sense Rp wise does it?
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Another thing with the likes of Infernal and Calstix. They are dangerous because of thier ability to summon boss rank pets. Even downgraded, they would still be able to summon boss rank pets. Putting asside the oddness of minions being more powerful than thier master, it would mean that if you stuggle to defeat them at EB rank you would still find them difficult if doungraded to bosses.
[/ QUOTE ]Infernal's demons only have Minion HP, don't they?
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I never bother to kill pets. They just get resummoned. So their hp is not what is important it is their ability to rip you to pieces. So even at boss level infernal is still a dangerous opponent because of his pets. Especially if they are at +2 levels.
But the fact remains that some bosses are bigger and badder than just bosses are, and that's why they have EB status. RP wise it'd make no sense for Infernal to be the same level of nastiness as an ordinary CoT Death Mage either.
10 FLOG deadhorse
20 GOTO 10
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Another thing with the likes of Infernal and Calstix. They are dangerous because of thier ability to summon boss rank pets. Even downgraded, they would still be able to summon boss rank pets. Putting asside the oddness of minions being more powerful than thier master, it would mean that if you stuggle to defeat them at EB rank you would still find them difficult if doungraded to bosses.
[/ QUOTE ]Infernal's demons only have Minion HP, don't they?
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I never bother to kill pets. They just get resummoned. So their hp is not what is important it is their ability to rip you to pieces. So even at boss level infernal is still a dangerous opponent because of his pets. Especially if they are at +2 levels.
[/ QUOTE ]Infernal's demons have some long recharge before they can be resummoned.
Infernal summons several different ranks of demons (random I think). But If you are playing /WP, killing them first is a very bad idea.
I really should do something about this signature.
Might be different versions of Infernal then... The one I've fought in Mu'Drakhan's arcs tended to lose his pets to one or two well placed AoEs.
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Question; Which builds can solo AVs? Because, from bitter experience, I have found said conflicts impossible.
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Night Widows, /regen scrappers with high ST damage, /WP brutes, rad defenders. Quite a few others too.
[/ QUOTE ]Masterminds in general.
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SR scrappers with high ST damage. My DA brute solo'd Countess Crey, but I doubt there's many AVs he could solo
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
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In a lot of arcs you will have to defeat boss huppeldepup. And instead of him being somebody big he is just a boss. It happens often enough in normal arcs.
[/ QUOTE ]That's because there is nothing special about him. He's just another Freak Tank or Death Mage.
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So a boss doesn't need to be an EB to be a boss.
[/ QUOTE ]Nice try but you're only half right here. Bosses are Bosses. EB's are Elite Bosses, a cut above the armies of pleb bosses. Be it "T3h Pwnz0r" or "Tank Smasher" it's still a pleb, however there is only one Bobcat or Ghost Widow. It's as much about the distinction as it is about the threat they pose. An EB isn't an EB because the Devs decided that they wanted to upset the cart for soloists, they represent characters who are exceptionally powerful/talented according to the game lore.
Also, if you're soloing then alot of the EBs you're facing would have been AVs if you had a team. AV's being the pinacle of power for an NPC character, it would be criminal to downgrade them further, just so someone can blast through them like any other pleb boss. Again we're back to replacing Darth Vader with Rick Morranis in a glorified welding mask.
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On the other hand why would the big bad boss suddenly be surrounded by flunkies (hero level) instead of his most trusted soldiers (invincible level)? That also doesnt make sense Rp wise does it?
[/ QUOTE ]Difficulty level is set by the player, not the mission design. It is not logical to reason that Invincible difficulty mobs are different to Heroic ones as far as the story arc's design is concerned. The mobs around an EB/AV are his/her chosen bodyguard, whether they are even level or +2s is irrelevent. RP is also irrelevent when it comes to mission balancing.
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In a lot of arcs you will have to defeat boss huppeldepup. And instead of him being somebody big he is just a boss. It happens often enough in normal arcs.
[/ QUOTE ]That's because there is nothing special about him. He's just another Freak Tank or Death Mage.
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And why did Golden Sphinx or 3k Kelvin or Phil suddenly become a Darth Vader?
That Lord Recluse or Statesman are Darth Vaders. I happily agree. But there are quite a lot of plebs out there that suddenly are EB's. T3h Pwnz0r has every right to be an EB as a nobody like Golden Sphinx and yet he is not.
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So a boss doesn't need to be an EB to be a boss.
[/ QUOTE ]Nice try but you're only half right here. Bosses are Bosses. EB's are Elite Bosses, a cut above the armies of pleb bosses. Be it "T3h Pwnz0r" or "Tank Smasher" it's still a pleb, however there is only one Bobcat or Ghost Widow. It's as much about the distinction as it is about the threat they pose. An EB isn't an EB because the Devs decided that they wanted to upset the cart for soloists, they represent characters who are exceptionally powerful/talented according to the game lore.
Also, if you're soloing then alot of the EBs you're facing would have been AVs if you had a team. AV's being the pinacle of power for an NPC character, it would be criminal to downgrade them further, just so someone can blast through them like any other pleb boss. Again we're back to replacing Darth Vader with Rick Morranis in a glorified welding mask.
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Who is Rick Morranis? 
But back to your arguments. I would not dream of tackling such as Statesman or Lord Recluse alone. ArchVillians are indeed to big and nasty to grade them down. Their might and power is integrated in the background story. Note that I was talking about EB's not ArchVillains. So yes there are some arcs where this option would not apply.
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On the other hand why would the big bad boss suddenly be surrounded by flunkies (hero level) instead of his most trusted soldiers (invincible level)? That also doesnt make sense Rp wise does it?
[/ QUOTE ]Difficulty level is set by the player, not the mission design. It is not logical to reason that Invincible difficulty mobs are different to Heroic ones as far as the story arc's design is concerned. The mobs around an EB/AV are his/her chosen bodyguard, whether they are even level or +2s is irrelevent. RP is also irrelevent when it comes to mission balancing.
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Turning of EB's would also be player decision. It would balance the mission also nicely. Instead of having to go to seas of of flunkies and then suddenly 1 speedbump. You now can have a tough fight throughout the whole mission.
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Who is Rick Morranis?
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He's the actor who played Dark Helmet in Space Balls
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Note that I was talking about EB's not ArchVillains.
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But most of the mobs you have been complaining about are AVs, that have been downgraded to EBs. Infernal, his mom, Calystix, Arbiter Sands, all AVs.
In fact, there are far more AVs in the game than native EBs.
The only actual EBs you have mentioned are Golden Sphinx and 3K Phil, who as EBs, are indeed a big step down from Darth Vader/Statesman. (Oh, and make the T3h Pwnz0r an EB, the only reeason he isn't is he has been in the game for longer than EBs).
EBs are much closer to bosses than AVs in terms of HP, damage etc. The ones you have been complaining about are the downgraded AVs, and they are still difficult when downgraded because they retain AV appropiate powers.
I really should do something about this signature.
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And why did Golden Sphinx or 3k Kelvin or Phil suddenly become a Darth Vader?
That Lord Recluse or Statesman are Darth Vaders. I happily agree. But there are quite a lot of plebs out there that suddenly are EB's. T3h Pwnz0r has every right to be an EB as a nobody like Golden Sphinx and yet he is not.
[/ QUOTE ]Golden Sphinx and Co. are like Ballistas They're supposed to be outstanding heroes that work for, or with, Longbow. Also they don't scale up as far as being Hero/AVs, hence not Vader anyway.
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So a boss doesn't need to be an EB to be a boss.
[/ QUOTE ]Nice try but you're only half right here. Bosses are Bosses. EB's are Elite Bosses, a cut above the armies of pleb bosses. Be it "T3h Pwnz0r" or "Tank Smasher" it's still a pleb, however there is only one Bobcat or Ghost Widow. It's as much about the distinction as it is about the threat they pose. An EB isn't an EB because the Devs decided that they wanted to upset the cart for soloists, they represent characters who are exceptionally powerful/talented according to the game lore.
Also, if you're soloing then alot of the EBs you're facing would have been AVs if you had a team. AV's being the pinacle of power for an NPC character, it would be criminal to downgrade them further, just so someone can blast through them like any other pleb boss. Again we're back to replacing Darth Vader with Rick Morranis in a glorified welding mask.
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Who is Rick Morranis? But back to your arguments. I would not dream of tackling such as Statesman or Lord Recluse alone. ArchVillians are indeed to big and nasty to grade them down. Their might and power is integrated in the background story. Note that I was talking about EB's not ArchVillains. So yes there are some arcs where this option would not apply.
[/ QUOTE ]Ah, but here's where your problem begins. Infernal? He's an AV/Hero, Numina, Bobcat, Positron, Synapse, Black Swan, Sirrocco, Antimatter, Tyrant, etc, etc, all AV/Hero level characters. Because you solo, you're only seeing them as EBs but in actual fact they are supposed to be a whole load more powerful.
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On the other hand why would the big bad boss suddenly be surrounded by flunkies (hero level) instead of his most trusted soldiers (invincible level)? That also doesnt make sense Rp wise does it?
[/ QUOTE ]Difficulty level is set by the player, not the mission design. It is not logical to reason that Invincible difficulty mobs are different to Heroic ones as far as the story arc's design is concerned. The mobs around an EB/AV are his/her chosen bodyguard, whether they are even level or +2s is irrelevent. RP is also irrelevent when it comes to mission balancing.
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Turning of EB's would also be player decision. It would balance the mission also nicely. Instead of having to go to seas of of flunkies and then suddenly 1 speedbump. You now can have a tough fight throughout the whole mission.
[/ QUOTE ]But it would defeat the purpose of that EB/AVs presence in the mission. Also you cannot assume that the EB/AV stands separate from the rest of the "mission balance", they are as much a part of the mission as all the mobs you chewed through to get to them. Having a setting that "Turns off" EB/AVs would degrade the missions and overall epic-ness of the story arcs you claim to hold so dear.
You don't see Obi wan kenobi popping off to downgrade Jango Fett before facing him at the landing pad on Camino, do you?
Edit: Oh, Rick Morranis played Dark Helmet
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The EBs are what makes these missions interesting. Take away the EBs and they would still be missing a nice part of the game.
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Tbh id welcome a new class that fits in between an EB and an AV, AVs are soloable by some toon makeups but not by all (think illu/rad etc) and EBs are a joke with a tray of insps, something in between would be a nice challenge for all ATs/Builds