You used to be funny GG, what happened? 
[ QUOTE ]
You used to be funny GG, what happened?
[/ QUOTE ]
Menopause
[b][color=blue]Coldest War /[color=red]/ Omega Patient[/b]
[url="http://www.the-cow.net/"][color=red]The CoW Network (Blog) /[/url][url="http://www.collegeofwar.com/"][color=blue]/ College of War[/url]
[ QUOTE ]
You used to be funny GG, what happened?
[/ QUOTE ]
Aww, come on, that wasn't that bad 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
You know... Judging by all the "how to fix auctions" bright ideas here and on US boards (one half of those would've made those same proposing players mass-quit if they were part of the original I13 and two thirds of the rest would make situation worse if implemented...) I'm all for doing baby steps and relying on datamines more and gut feelings less. The situation needs a good dose of evidence-based medicine, not voodoo.
Seriously, Synapse said that
1) Villains indeed get less merits, there's objective evidence of that.
2) He's thinking how to fix that.
3) I 14 would ease diminishing returns from TFs.
4) Shared an actual formula aand some data.
In other words, he does his job and does it well. What else anyone expected? What devs have perfect economical theory? If they do, I nominate Positron for POTUS and Synapse for his Secretary of Treasury. (Or we may try and coax them to become PM and CoE.) What they would act on wild guesses? Come on, situation isn't THAT desperate. They do exactly that they ought to do, IMVHO.
Over here people are avoiding the sf´s even more since merits were introduced. After the patch its even more impossible to get a regular sf going than a oro tf.
no merit gain, no carrot , no people to recruit.
And your point is? Synapse hinted that global disparity might be due to "playstyle differences", so these sorts of things are considered as well as solutions that aren't just price/reward adjustments he's responsible for. That's as much as he can say in public, I suspect. (if your theory is indeed true, any datamine should reflect that, BTW.)
/3dent, still completely in the tank for merits and devs. 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
people saying they don't want long TF's
[/ QUOTE ]These people have no right to whine anyway, so who cares? Nobody will be there forcing them to run these new long SFs, if we ever did get any.
A lot of "/unsigned" comments on new (or old) ideas are stupid for this very reason. People dislike the idea of content they wouldn't want to play, but they completely overlook the fact that the idea might be 1) completely OPTIONAL, and 2) something other people might want.
Honestly, why shoot down an idea that would not affect you -at all- if it was in the game, yet would make others happy?
Rant not directed at anyone in particular. I seem to be giving off hostile vibes with my posts these days, so just sayin'.
[/ QUOTE ]
I quite like the idea of a very long TF not just a 3 or 4 hour effort but a proper 10-12 hour long epic story TF the kind of thing a dedicated team of people could do over a week or 2.
Something i don't get is that every one seems more than happy to blame merits for the sole state of the market but surly duel builds has had a hefty effect on the availability of recipes as well. As they'll be those that want to create 2 fully tricked out builds so reducing the number of top range merritts they'll also be those that will outfit there second build with the less *** after recipes so reducing there availability as well.
Also prices for the not so good recipes seems to have dropped a fair bit and i know personally that instead of selling some recipes at the AH I've been selling them at contacts
[ QUOTE ]
You know... Judging by all the "how to fix auctions" bright ideas here and on US boards (one half of those would've made those same proposing players mass-quit if they were part of the original I13 and two thirds of the rest would make situation worse if implemented...) I'm all for doing baby steps and relying on datamines more and gut feelings less. The situation needs a good dose of evidence-based medicine, not voodoo.
Seriously, Synapse said that
1) Villains indeed get less merits, there's objective evidence of that.
2) He's thinking how to fix that.
3) I 14 would ease diminishing returns from TFs.
4) Shared an actual formula aand some data.
In other words, he does his job and does it well. What else anyone expected? What devs have perfect economical theory? If they do, I nominate Positron for POTUS and Synapse for his Secretary of Treasury. (Or we may try and coax them to become PM and CoE.) What they would act on wild guesses? Come on, situation isn't THAT desperate. They do exactly that they ought to do, IMVHO.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you are mixing two things, the shortage of recipes in AH/BM is related to the institution of merit system because the majority of players are not using the random roll, or if they're using them, they're keeping most of the recipes and not putting them for sale in the market, while the datamining Synapse is doing is mainly around TF completion times and his new formula 1 merit per 3 TF minutes.
Besides the moaning (justified I think) in US forums regarding the unbalance between hero/villain merits, what is being discussed there is quite unrelated to how many merits you earn per TF, since, as I said, no matter how many merits people get, if they don't produce random rolls and leak them to the market, the AH/BM will continue almost empty, in fact, if not random rolling, the more merits, the emptier the markets will be since it will make easier to get most of the recipes solely by merits.
Some of the solutions proposed are good imho, others are plainly stupid, but in any case they are questioning the merit system itself, not the quantity of merits you get from X or Y TF (mainly).
You may propose Positron for King if you wish, what is undeniable so far in my humble opinion is that devs misjudged greatly the amount of players who were going for the instant gratification of the random roll. At the current recipe prices in merits, it is silly to even consider getting every single set IO recipe through merits, the market should still be the main source and merits act as a complement for those elusive/unbelievebly expensive recipes but that's not happening. It was of course predicted when I13 was on beta, but devs got it their way, the fact that they're increasing now the merits rewards somehow proves that misjudgement, but again, for that to be an effective solution people should be more involved using randoms and they are (understandably) not doing so.
Of course you can think the situation is not THAT desperate, for everyone who just sticks to SO's, the situation is pretty much same than before I9, for everyone who just uses a -KB recipe or a Numina Unique in their builds, the situation is great, they only have to run the TF Commander accolade et voilà, but for people who like using serious set builds, the situation is THAT desperate.
You may argue that set builds are not required for playing this game since it's balanced around SO's, and it's true, but then neither are Pool Powers or badges since it's not balanced around Hasten, Stamina or Accolades and yet they are an important part of the game.
For some of us, sets are a very important part of this game, if devs felt a full set build should take longer to achieve, fair enough, but the fact that they are increasing rewards shows in my opinion that they have gone too far and they are trying to make amendemnts. If this increase will be effective or not, remains to be seen, I don't think it will, in fact I think the more merits they give, the less recipes will be available for purchase because the problem of the merit system is not the concept of allowing people working towards a determined goal but the way it's been implemented.-
On the subject of Merit farming, anyone got any suggestions for some nice single zone arcs I can farm the knickers out of at level 30 or below? I hate skipping zones...
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
[ QUOTE ]
I think you are mixing two things, the shortage of recipes in AH/BM is related to the institution of merit system because the majority of players are not using the random roll, or if they're using them, they're keeping most of the recipes and not putting them for sale in the market, while the datamining Synapse is doing is mainly around TF completion times and his new formula 1 merit per 3 TF minutes.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not as much "mixing" them, as using market situation as an example of why devs can't "just quickpatch it, it's easy!" and why they and do what they do instead.
[ QUOTE ]
Besides the moaning (justified I think) in US forums regarding the unbalance between hero/villain merits, what is being discussed there is quite unrelated to how many merits you earn per TF,
[/ QUOTE ]
On the contrary, prior to me mentioning market, the thread was mostly about merit reward values themselves Sorry for derailment.
[ QUOTE ]
since, as I said, no matter how many merits people get, if they don't produce random rolls and leak them to the market, the AH/BM will continue almost empty, in fact, if not random rolling, the more merits, the emptier the markets will be since it will make easier to get most of the recipes solely by merits.
[/ QUOTE ]
True.
[ QUOTE ]
Some of the solutions proposed are good imho, others are plainly stupid, but in any case they are questioning the merit system itself, not the quantity of merits you get from X or Y TF (mainly).
You may propose Positron for King if you wish, what is undeniable so far in my humble opinion is that devs misjudged greatly the amount of players who were going for the instant gratification of the random roll. At the current recipe prices in merits, it is silly to even consider getting every single set IO recipe through merits, the market should still be the main source and merits act as a complement for those elusive/unbelievebly expensive recipes but that's not happening.
[/ QUOTE ]
Again, no argument.
[ QUOTE ]
It was of course predicted when I13 was on beta, but devs got it their way,
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, many things were predicted. As all predictions tend to be, it's quite obvious in retrospect, but back in beta days, I quite well remember myself thinking of at least 3 scenarios (including one we actually have got) and not being sure about their relative merits. (pun intended).
Some people guessed right and earned "I told you so" rights now. Some other people, including devs, guessed wrong. Some people, who unlike the devs, didn't have to guess one way or the other, like me, saw that any "predictions" are just that: guesses, and decided to wait till the next issue before crying DOOM!!11!!!(tm).
EDIT: The difference beetween then and now is that now there are records of 10,000s of people actually using the system for actual, non-beta gameplay. Something that devs may base their decisions on.
[ QUOTE ]
the fact that they're increasing now the merits rewards somehow proves that misjudgement, but again, for that to be an effective solution people should be more involved using randoms and they are (understandably) not doing so.
Of course you can think the situation is not THAT desperate, for everyone who just sticks to SO's, the situation is pretty much same than before I9, for everyone who just uses a -KB recipe or a Numina Unique in their builds, the situation is great, they only have to run the TF Commander accolade et voilà, but for people who like using serious set builds, the situation is THAT desperate.
[/ QUOTE ]
I only think it isn't THAT desperate because i think it will be eventually fixed this year. If not, well, it will be THAT desperate. I can wait, level alts, and enjoy the scenery. And yes, do random rol or two selling stuff I don't need, thinking that INF would eventually regain its value (not that it's really 100% useless right now either.)
EDIT2: And yes, I'm mostly in SO+few shinies category atm, although I of course want a set build eventually, but no, I'm not saving towards specific recipes.
[ QUOTE ]
I quite like the idea of a very long TF not just a 3 or 4 hour effort but a proper 10-12 hour long epic story TF the kind of thing a dedicated team of people could do over a week or 2.
[/ QUOTE ]So did the devs when they were making the game. However, for the majority of players, such TF's just aren't doable.
Personally? I'm starting to think that the ability to purchase any specific recipe you want for merits was a bad idea to begin with. Should've stuck to just random rolls, only with the merit system this'd allow you five and a half random rolls per Doc Q as opposed to just one.
[ QUOTE ]
Personally? I'm starting to think that the ability to purchase any specific recipe you want for merits was a bad idea to begin with. Should've stuck to just random rolls, only with the merit system this'd allow you five and a half random rolls per Doc Q as opposed to just one.
[/ QUOTE ]
I dunno, i kinda like it.
Because it's a nice correlation between time spent and reward.
It's much nicer to do SSTF1 and get 5 pacing of the turtle, than just one pacing of the turtle.
Ugh... I just got back from work so I'm too tired to figure out if you misunderstood my post, or if I'm unable to properly understand your reply... I need more coffee, will get back to you.
*Crawls to kitchen.*
[ QUOTE ]
Personally? I'm starting to think that the ability to purchase any specific recipe you want for merits was a bad idea to begin with. Should've stuck to just random rolls, only with the merit system this'd allow you five and a half random rolls per Doc Q as opposed to just one.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well a lot of the prices do need to be brought down everybody agrees in that, but the high value ones like +regen/+recovery can be obtained quite easily IF the player wants it guaranteed.
Whereas before you would have to go through numerous taskforces just for the chance to get it (which could take weeks of taskforce farming), its now possible to get it in 2 days non farming. As long as each taskforce gives the chance for a minimum of one random roll then everything is fine imo.
Now if you they want to help increase the challenge of taskforces, then they should put certain restrictions on it.
For example:
Number of deaths (3 allowed) - completing this increases merit rewards by 5.
Complete under 2 hours - completing this increases merit rewards by 5.
Not a HIGH amount but if you add rewards to the current buff/nerf options we have when we start taskforces then it'll incourage people to be more daring. Obviously you'ld have to scale each reward to the difficulty of the taskforce (things like ITF are commonplace to be finished under 2 hours, but less than 1 death would warrant more merits).
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
I still think the more merits we get, the emptier the market will be, specially if you lower down merit prices in the mix. Agreed it was unfair just to have a random roll system where unlucky people never got their shiny, but we're gone to the opposite extreme, current system only helps people who only want 1 shiny, they can get it just by getting TF Commander Accolade and that's it. Not saying this is bad, but I think the ideal solution would be some kind of combination between merits drops and random rolls on TF's, this way market could still be supplied and people could still work towards the desired recipe... unless what devs are really after getting rid of the market, that'd make influence meaningless and the only valid currency would be merits, which are untradeable and hard to get, both before and after this new list.-
[ QUOTE ]
I think the ideal solution would be some kind of combination between merits drops and random rolls
[/ QUOTE ]Yup, what I said earlier. Get rid of the ability to buy specific recipes for Merits, leave only the random rolls and insps. That way people still only get randoms for doing TFs like they used to, but they get more than one roll for doing lengthy content (5 and a half random rolls from Doc Q!).
Sounds fair, no?
[ QUOTE ]
(5 and a half random rolls from Doc Q!).
Sounds fair, no?
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, no. You and I both know that random rolls are the smart choice both for you and the market, even when you get 3 PotTs in a row, but most people overestimate risk of getting rubbish, and would riot if ability to get specific recipes would be removed... Someone on the US boards suggested one mandatory random roll per TF and somewhat reduced TF merit revards (say, current-15).
That's more like it, although it would make KHTF farming popular again, one of the the thing merits were introduced to solve in the first place, so I don't know.
Eh, the option hasn't even existed that long yet, would the riot really be that bad if it were removed?
/e shrug
Well, I may be overestimating the risk myself here But it might be bad enough.
Plus, it won't solve another problem, - people hoarding until lvl 50. It's again, rather logical thing to do (for everythiong but procs), and it will continue specific recipes or no.
I dont know what the hell recipes you get in each random roll 'zone' so to speak, so I jsut save my merits, such as they are, for things I actually really want.
Tbh, IOs are seeming more and more like such a chore. It might be a nice add-on for 50s or such, and sometimes Insanely useful (KB resist in VEATs and my Ninja stalker...) but its NOT friendly in any way to those who dont have the bloomin time to crunch certain arcs/TFs over and over to get merits. ESPECIALLY when Merits arent earnt doing other peoples arcs.
You will NEVER stop in-game farming. Real-money trading should be hunted down and stamped on, sure, but in-game stuff shouldnt be a bugbear. If some people want to play the game that way, so LET them. It SHOULDNT be a factor that influences everyone else who plays, often for the worse.
/fume
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
[ QUOTE ]
You will NEVER stop in-game farming. Real-money trading should be hunted down and stamped on, sure, but in-game stuff shouldnt be a bugbear. If some people want to play the game that way, so LET them. It SHOULDNT be a factor that influences everyone else who plays, often for the worse.
/fume
[/ QUOTE ]Farming itself wasn't problem. Problem was that non-farmable TFs were pointless (Been there, done that and all I've got was Edict of the Master (blueside) and badge.) Which led to the problem of people simply ignoring most of them most of the time. And if (under rolls+merits system I mentioned) there again would be something that's just silly to not to farm, well, it was all for nothing.
That said I have nothing against farms as such, and I suspect neither does anyone.
And yes, pools work. But they're quite, well, byzantine, and that's another reason people are afraid of random rolls. There still should be risk, of course, but just making some understandable categories like "Ranged+Sniper", "AoE+Mez" etc, instead of C and D pools might be a solution too. Or it might not... (Dependinfg on how exactly it would be done)
[ QUOTE ]
Tbh, IOs are seeming more and more like such a chore. It might be a nice add-on for 50s or such, and sometimes Insanely useful (KB resist in VEATs and my Ninja stalker...) but its NOT friendly in any way to those who dont have the bloomin time to crunch certain arcs/TFs over and over to get merits. ESPECIALLY when Merits arent earnt doing other peoples arcs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not really, I like(d) start my IO sets from 35 onwards, with the lack of high end content, I can really see no point in waiting to lvl 47 to enjoy bonuses for just 3 levels. After merits, the "need" of setting around lvl 32 was even bigger to retain bonuses when exemplaring down for mid level TF's, besides the obvious one you mentioned for -KB or the Kismet +ToHit, or Miracle +Recovery or Numina Unique, or the other +regen from some healing set, or the Performance Shifter +end... tbh set IO's shouldn't be an add on for 50's, if they were supposed to, all sets would be lvl 50 and just equipabble at lvl 50 like purples.
[ QUOTE ]
You will NEVER stop in-game farming. Real-money trading should be hunted down and stamped on, sure, but in-game stuff shouldnt be a bugbear. If some people want to play the game that way, so LET them. It SHOULDNT be a factor that influences everyone else who plays, often for the worse.
[/ QUOTE ]
Real money trading is going down in this game, it's probably the only good consequence from merits, no point in having a billion inf if there's nothing you can purchase with such inf.
Agreed on the bit we shouldn't be farming same TF's over and over with SAME char (or maybe two merit hoarding chars) to fully kit our toons, purple recipes were supposed to be the uber scarce items which really made the difference on a build. Seems to me not only poor implementation of the merit system by devs but also poor design of the ingame shinies.
As per solutions, I'd make costume parts, purple recipes and rare sets (or rare recipes inside an uncommon set) the only things purchaseable by merits and everything else dropping from normal mobs bearing in mind the ratios, it is, far more chars have access to melee and ranged attacks than to confuse, immobilize, slow etc... so drop rates should be tweaked accordingly.
Also, to replenish the market, the random roll should be brought back maybe while keeping the option to work for desired goodies, it was suggested that TF's should give both rewards in the following way:
Positron TF, 64 merits - Make it 3 random drops and 4 merits
That could be a solution but probably the easiest solution would be, keeping the rewards as they are, INCREASE the cost of recipes in merits and make a random roll cost 5 merits, if that doesn't encourage people to random roll, I honestly don't know what will do it.
It would also help informing people about how merits work and how to obtain them, there's a percenteage of the playerbase who just don't use merits because they don't have a clue of what they are (try logging in Freedom and you'll be asked 3 or 4 times a day about merits) and make the Merit vendor interface a bit more user friendly.
In the meantime, no matter how much Mr. Zelesky tweaks the rewards, he can waste his time as he wishes, but increasing rewards, change reward formulas and datamining median times will not replenish the market.
[ QUOTE ]
QR read thourgh dev digest
[ QUOTE ]
Hero vs. Villain merits
If you stack hero content versus villain content side by side you'll notice that heroes have more content. Also, their story arcs and task forces are longer, on average, than villains. This is even more true when you look at old hero content. Since merits are a time based reward this means that heroes will--on average--earn more merits per task.
Villains also have the potential to level faster than heroes if both heroes and villains are doing story arcs. The reason for this is that at the end of a story arc or task/strikeforce there's a pretty big end of task XP reward. Since villain tasks are shorter on average this means they're reaching this big xp boost more often. This can lead to villains burning through content faster, which can lead to earning fewer merits over the course from level 1 to 50.
Recent data mining has shown us that at very low levels villains start off earning more merits than heroes. However, at around level 15-20 heroes begin to earn more merits on average than villains. This could be caused by a number of factors. It could be caused the big bursts of merits heroes are capable of getting by doing the lengthier taskforces which aren't present on villain side, or it could be a complete different play style common to heroes or villains. It's hard to say exactly, however the fact remains that if you run from 1 to 50 after Issue 13 a hero is likely to end up with more merits than a villain if they play the same type of missions.
There's a number of ways we can look at addressing this, but I wanted to let you know we are aware of it and are looking at the best way to help narrow this divide without causing problems down the road. If there's something that I can do on the data side (read merit formula adjustments) I will consider it as long as it doesn't punish either side.
[/ QUOTE ]
I dont think Synapse can see the forest for all the datamines
[/ QUOTE ]
Do tress grow in mines?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork