Issue 13...upsetting the apple cart?
By
Archy,
Posted on: 2008-11-06 19:29 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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No need for that now mate, basically APP's/PPP's remain as they are and you will have another one added to choose from at lvl 44.
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Great!
(But what do APP and PPP stand for? Im guessing they are the power groups, but the only good solution to those acronyms I can come up with are Primary Pow Power and Another Pow Power? 
)
Ancillary Power Pool and Patron Power Pool
They're the epic power pools ones everyone unlocks at 41.
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No need for that now mate, basically APP's/PPP's remain as they are and you will have another one added to choose from at lvl 44.
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Great!
(But what do APP and PPP stand for? Im guessing they are the power groups, but the only good solution to those acronyms I can come up with are Primary Pow Power and Another Pow Power? )
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Ancilliary Power Pool - what heroes get at 41.
Patron Power Pool - what villains get at 41.
Both are, frankly, very stupid names.
Well thought out and perfectly true post, LeighB. As usual.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
Having played with it on Test I have to say that I'm loving what I13 brings, so far. I've not tried everything, but it's surprising how quickly the new QoL stuff gets ingrained into your playstyle. I went back to the live server for an appointment with Atta and I actually started to miss all the little bits and bobs, mainly the new way that Badges are sorted and assessed and the Day job rewards...it made me hunger to be back on Test.
As for Merits, I got my first when I completed Kalinda's little arc with my new /pain corrupter okay it was just the one but it's the first step. Personally I like the change to the 'forces...now I can work towards a recipe I need/crave instead of praying for the random factor's clapped out tractor to plough up a decent recipe. Not forgetting the recipes that drop throughout the task which can be quite tasty.
The main gripe I have with the bases is the meagre storage: 30 pieces per rack when they used to hold 999 seems a little tight. I'm not asking for unlimited storage, just a bit more than 30 :P
My other main gripe is with the multi builds, though it's only a niggle and from what I've heard it's due to a bug: When selecting your second build you then have to level up in the traditional way....so for instance with Delph, who's 50, I swapped to his 2nd build and he became a lvl 1. I then had to click the trainer 49 times, selecting and slotting with each new click, till he was up to scratch again. It had that tiny "wow" factor of going from lvl 1 to lvl 50 in a giant swoop of powers and slots, but it'll get very irritating for each higher level character.
Overall I like it so far, there are a whole heap of things I've not tried yet but I'll get around to them. *eats an apple*
I don't wanna save my soul now,
I just wanna lose control,
And even if it takes a lifetime, to learn:
I'll learn!
I guess the sensible option would be to have "TF Merits" as an additional option on the TF reward window, that way you could choose a random recipe, TF Merits(or whateve they label them" or in the case of the RSF/STF a SHOE...
it's all about the implimentation of the feature, rather than the feature itself I suppose..
I like the idea of Merits, but it's gotta be a working feature, if a lot of people like the random recipe drop then why lose it when you could have a choice of both systems, and this could be fairly easilly implimented surely.
forgive me if this has been implimented, but I haven't been on test yet:
Another possibility perhaps; The Merits could be rewarded in a similar way to the Vanguard Merits if this was considered a valid way to get recipes, thus you wouldn't need to lose the current TF recipe reward system, this could just be an additional method to purchase the exact recipe you wanted without having to rely on another player wanting to sell the one that they were lucky enough to get on their random drop table.. I know for sure, that if I got a Miracle/Numina rare drop I'd be keeping it until I had one for each of my characters, thus the likely hood of me actually selling one of these is slim, however I am unlikely to ever actually purchase it off of the AH due to the insane prices that some of these recipes actually retail for
_________________
You cannot dream yourself into a character: you must hammer and forge yourself into one. �Henry D. Thoreau
Regarding the 'drip-feed' option on Merit awarding, to avoid (as much as possible) exploits around "everyone log off until the final mish to get the merits"
They've said that the rewards are roughly based on 1 merit per 5 minutes, with a jigger-factor applied.
I have no idea how hard the code for this would be to do, but it's a thought.
Every 5 minutes:
Game checks if character is on a merit-awarding mission
AND
Game checks if character has earned XP, inf or prestige in last 5 minutes
If both return TRUE, then game awards 1 merit.
On mission complete of the "Award" mish (end of story arc/TF/Trial) jigger-factor award is granted.
*shrug*
Probably adds loads of extra tasks server-side, but it would a) reduce that final reward and so give an incentive to go through the mishes, and b) prevent 'parking' tactics, because *someone* has to be earning XP/inf/prestige on the team for anyone to get these merits.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
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No need for that now mate, basically APP's/PPP's remain as they are and you will have another one added to choose from at lvl 44.
[/ QUOTE ]
Great!
(But what do APP and PPP stand for? Im guessing they are the power groups, but the only good solution to those acronyms I can come up with are Primary Pow Power and Another Pow Power? )
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Don't let Carni and Ravenswing fool you mate, Pow Powers FTW!! 
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No need for that now mate, basically APP's/PPP's remain as they are and you will have another one added to choose from at lvl 44.
[/ QUOTE ]
Great!
(But what do APP and PPP stand for? Im guessing they are the power groups, but the only good solution to those acronyms I can come up with are Primary Pow Power and Another Pow Power? )
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Don't let Carni and Ravenswing fool you mate, Pow Powers FTW!!
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I did say I thought it was a stupid name. I think Pow Power and Another Pow Power should be used instead.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
There is a change to the base editor, actually. You can now intersect items, having them hanging off higher floor options, or even create a cross section by intersecting two lateral files.
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the Day job rewards
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Hm. I think the Day Job system's ingenious, but - and this is a complaint you won't hear often - I'm a bit uneasy about the extra XP. An altoholic's going to be playing with double XP almost all the time, and even a regular player is going to get a bunch. Now, I notice the XP curve has been rejigged a bit while I was away, and of course debt became a joke some time back. When the toon I started since returning hit 25th, I cleared up an open arc from 20-24, did radio missions for the IP Safeguard, and did the Striga and Croato a arcs. She's 28th, halfway to 29th, and hasn't touched an origin contact yet. With Patrol XP it's almost going to be too easy.
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The main gripe I have with the bases is the meagre storage: 30 pieces per rack when they used to hold 999 seems a little tight.
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I suspect this change, at least for invention salvage, is because the mad US speculators who'd rather play market-PVP than actually run missions (and are currently pouring out gallons of the-devs-are-communists LJ-drama) need a lot of salvage storage for flipping common salvage. You might well see an end to the problem that the common salvage you need has shot up to 25,000 and you have to wait a couple of days for one - and then you won't need as much base storage.
(I don't have a problem with people having fun playing with the market _inasmuch_ as it isn't a nuisance to people who want to play the game. Call me an old socialist, but I think of the market as predominantly cooperative, where we pool our resources to help each other...)
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My other main gripe is with the multi builds, though it's only a niggle and from what I've heard it's due to a bug: When selecting your second build you then have to level up in the traditional way...
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I don't think that's a bug, although it would be nice if you were dropped in the respec interface if you switched to a second build that's at Security Level 0 (ie, no power selections made at all).
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I like the idea of Merits, but it's gotta be a working feature, if a lot of people like the random recipe drop then why lose it when you could have a choice of both systems
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Because if any TF granted a random drop, it would be impossible to grant higher rewards for longer TFs, which is part of the point of the system. You can get a random drop from the Merit Vendor if your TF was worth at least 25 Merits - and the intent is that taking random drops is still overall more profitable, although I think that will vary wildly based on what it is you want (for example, I've always regarded KB protection as stupidly expensive while levelling up a character, but I might well drop 50 Merits on one).
I do thing the devs should recognise that some TFs have a very wide variance in time spent. Eden is worth a paltry 2 Merits because it can be very effectively speedrun (under 10 minutes!), but most people's Eden runs are much longer because they do a bunch of stuff that isn't strictly compulsory, and they'll be disappointed to get 2 Merits. It would be best if more of the Trial was unskippable. I'm not saying "turn every boss+guards into a defeat-all", but it would be worth the devs' time to look at TFs where there's a really high difference between average time and shortest time.
Of course this may be a self-correcting problem - the speed-Eden-runners will have less incentive to do it in i13, fewer Edens will be speedruns, the average time will be more representative, the Merit value will go up?
hehe well I dont suddenly want access to racks with 999 spots for invention salvage, that would be insane, but 30 is a little low too. Hey ho I guess we shall see. 
As for multi builds thing, the way it's implemented is correct, but I hear it used to be a respec until it stopped the VEATS from getting their branching powers. I could be wrong, but that's why I said about the bug
I don't wanna save my soul now,
I just wanna lose control,
And even if it takes a lifetime, to learn:
I'll learn!
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hehe well I dont suddenly want access to racks with 999 spots for invention salvage, that would be insane, but 30 is a little low too.
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I think that depends on whether it cuts "flipping" of common salvage off at the knees, and forces other people's drops out onto the market rather than gathering dust in base racks. If it does you won't really need invention salvage for anything but expensive rares, and it's not like you get enough of those to fill up the Vault Reserve...
At the moment - I don't have a base rack - when my salvage fills up I take absolutely everything to Wentworths and sell everything whose history shows it goes for under 100K; then I just buy what I need when I need it. This is not the most cost-effective strategy _but_ time is money - if I spend my time running missions and earning influence via drops I get more influence per hour than I would if I spent it agonising over what salvage to keep and how to squeeze the maximum value from mine - and it's much more fun.
The only downside to this approach is every now and then some Yank who thinks they're George Soros has bought up all the Circuit Boards, or something, and I have to wait two days. If that ends I won't feel the need for a base rack at all.
What I'm saying is that far more common and uncommon salvage drops than is needed for the recipes people actually make up and slot. If it becomes impossible to hoard it, we should just be able to get whatever we want whenever we want it. Don't think of it as your base rack shrinking; think of it as everyone else's base rack shrinking...
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hehe well I dont suddenly want access to racks with 999 spots for invention salvage, that would be insane, but 30 is a little low too. Hey ho I guess we shall see.
As for multi builds thing, the way it's implemented is correct, but I hear it used to be a respec until it stopped the VEATS from getting their branching powers. I could be wrong, but that's why I said about the bug
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Be interesting to see how the multi-build works out. It will be nice to have a Crab with a 'gun-monster' build and on with a CQB nasty build, and similar. Although having to slot each one on its own sounds majorly dispiritng, given im often too skint to afford ONE build, let alone two =[
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Although having to slot each one on its own sounds majorly dispiritng, given im often too skint to afford ONE build, let alone two =[
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I can see that there are good technical reasons why the two builds are completely disjoint entities, but I also think the market is going to go utterly insane for a bit as people with 50s and huge budgets suddenly try to fully slot second builds, and I do wonder if there are any plans to increase the supply of rares to compensate for the demand doubling.
Put it this way, if I get one of the golden drops (like Karma +KB) between now and i13, I'm going to hang onto it and see what the prices do once everyone's slotting multibuilds. I think (because of the fixed Merit prices [1]) we may even go through a phase where it's worth running 50 Merits of TFs, getting a Karma +KB, selling it for a squillion influence, slotting yourself with cheap stuff... the people paying the squillion could do the TFs themselves, but they will want it NOW.
I also strongly suggest gathering up recipes and IOs for your second build _now_. I'm not doing it because I'm too lazy, but do what I say, not what I do. :-)
[1] Which have the-devs-are-communists crowds completely a-froth; I like it already. Of course the same thing could be achieved by tweaking drop frequencies, but either way I'm glad to see a bit of actual design going into deciding how readily available certain rare recipes should be.
If you'll excuse topic drift, you shouldn't have trouble kitting out good solid PVE builds for relatively little influence. Five-Frankenslotting is better than Six-SO-slotting, and you've saved slots for other powers.
First of all; if it's orange, you don't want it. From 22nd, use a combination of regular IOs 25th and Frankenslotted yellows - the latter are expensive at precisely 25th because everyone with a large budget likes to buy in at the "knee" of the IO effectiveness curve, so be patient. Powers that do one thing get regular IOs; powers that you don't have the set IOs you want yet get regular IOs.
Did I mention "be patient"? Leave lowball bids lying at the market. It's cheap to fill in regular IOs 25th if you wait for people doing the crafting badges to dump oversupply (cheaper than SOs), and I don't ever pay more than 12K for my A/D/R and D/E/R triple-aspect recipes, although with crafting costs you're still looking at 40k.
Of course none of this is any good if you don't have much influence, but that's not hard to sort out. Vast quantities of SOs and recipes are dumped on the market by people who would rather spend their time playing than extracting the last speck of value; work your way down the list of 45-53 SOs and recipes submitting lowball bids (say, 1,111) for anything that's for sale with no bidders and when your trays fill up, sell the lot. A recipe always sells for 1/4 its crafting cost.
This eases the early game; for a very little time, you can be fully kitted out with TOs (not normally worth it, but when a single trayful of SOs brings in the inf for every TO you'll ever want, why not?), DOs, and Yin-Os.
When you get a big-ticket drop - and, sooner or later, you will - resist the urge to use it for yourself. One really good recipe drop can pay for a complete set of yellows at around 25th, and then you're set with a solid PVE slotting all the way to 50th. Everything else is icing on the cake.
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do what I say, not what I do
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A sensible policy for a happier SG...well it works for me
I have enough inf and even more patience to cope with whatever the market throws at me. I always use SOs in whatever configuration I need until I can supercede them with better invention stuff. It's just the sensible way to go :P
I don't wanna save my soul now,
I just wanna lose control,
And even if it takes a lifetime, to learn:
I'll learn!
anyone actually notcied you can now highlight text and copy it to whatever?!
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anyone actually notcied you can now highlight text and copy it to whatever?!
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It was like that for a while, IIRC.
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Although having to slot each one on its own sounds majorly dispiritng, given im often too skint to afford ONE build, let alone two =[
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I can see that there are good technical reasons why the two builds are completely disjoint entities, but I also think the market is going to go utterly insane for a bit as people with 50s and huge budgets suddenly try to fully slot second builds, and I do wonder if there are any plans to increase the supply of rares to compensate for the demand doubling.
Put it this way, if I get one of the golden drops (like Karma +KB) between now and i13, I'm going to hang onto it and see what the prices do once everyone's slotting multibuilds. I think (because of the fixed Merit prices [1]) we may even go through a phase where it's worth running 50 Merits of TFs, getting a Karma +KB, selling it for a squillion influence, slotting yourself with cheap stuff... the people paying the squillion could do the TFs themselves, but they will want it NOW.
I also strongly suggest gathering up recipes and IOs for your second build _now_. I'm not doing it because I'm too lazy, but do what I say, not what I do. :-)
[1] Which have the-devs-are-communists crowds completely a-froth; I like it already. Of course the same thing could be achieved by tweaking drop frequencies, but either way I'm glad to see a bit of actual design going into deciding how readily available certain rare recipes should be.
If you'll excuse topic drift, you shouldn't have trouble kitting out good solid PVE builds for relatively little influence. Five-Frankenslotting is better than Six-SO-slotting, and you've saved slots for other powers.
First of all; if it's orange, you don't want it. From 22nd, use a combination of regular IOs 25th and Frankenslotted yellows - the latter are expensive at precisely 25th because everyone with a large budget likes to buy in at the "knee" of the IO effectiveness curve, so be patient. Powers that do one thing get regular IOs; powers that you don't have the set IOs you want yet get regular IOs.
Did I mention "be patient"? Leave lowball bids lying at the market. It's cheap to fill in regular IOs 25th if you wait for people doing the crafting badges to dump oversupply (cheaper than SOs), and I don't ever pay more than 12K for my A/D/R and D/E/R triple-aspect recipes, although with crafting costs you're still looking at 40k.
Of course none of this is any good if you don't have much influence, but that's not hard to sort out. Vast quantities of SOs and recipes are dumped on the market by people who would rather spend their time playing than extracting the last speck of value; work your way down the list of 45-53 SOs and recipes submitting lowball bids (say, 1,111) for anything that's for sale with no bidders and when your trays fill up, sell the lot. A recipe always sells for 1/4 its crafting cost.
This eases the early game; for a very little time, you can be fully kitted out with TOs (not normally worth it, but when a single trayful of SOs brings in the inf for every TO you'll ever want, why not?), DOs, and Yin-Os.
When you get a big-ticket drop - and, sooner or later, you will - resist the urge to use it for yourself. One really good recipe drop can pay for a complete set of yellows at around 25th, and then you're set with a solid PVE slotting all the way to 50th. Everything else is icing on the cake.
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Im just generally skint, I have no idea why XD and I dont bother with many IOs, and sets not at all until 50. Except I really want some KB resist ones for my poor VEATs, who get knocked down FAR too much for my liking =[
That, and im sick of everything I need being so exepnsive at 50, and I only ever get [censored] drops
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
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anyone actually notcied you can now highlight text and copy it to whatever?!
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It was like that for a while, IIRC.
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Only on Test, not on live before.
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anyone actually notcied you can now highlight text and copy it to whatever?!
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It was like that for a while, IIRC.
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Only on Test, not on live before.
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Do you mean when you click in-game text it goes white? I can't paste anything from that. There was a way on live to do it and I done it myself just can't remember how.
Hold down Ctrl and tap C, then click in the text box and hold Ctrl and tap V. Copy-paste.
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I think the Day Job system's ingenious, but - and this is a complaint you won't hear often - I'm a bit uneasy about the extra XP. An altoholic's going to be playing with double XP almost all the time
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I thought that was just for one location and badge type? Aren't you able to avoid the double XP by just logging out, say, in a hospital every time?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I thought that was just for one location and badge type? Aren't you able to avoid the double XP by just logging out, say, in a hospital every time?
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My understanding from the widely quoted preview was that Patrol XP was in addition to any actual Day Job; "In addition to all of the Day Jobs, every character is "On Patrol" after they log out of the game."
I will be pleasantly surprised if that is not the case, but...
The primary reason why I don't hop on the TEST server is because I'd rather wait to play the 'official' releases, rather than the 'sounding board' versions.
Tbh, I'm relatively happy with what has been announced, looking forward to badges, new content, new costumes. The things I've come to expect from a release. New powersets are always welcome, and the multi-build certainly will get me sitting down and thinking about my powers more creatively.
My one 'overturned applecart' issue is with bases. I accept that they have made it MUCH easier / cheaper for smaller / newer SGs to build bases. However, they have no made the transition from 'challenging and expensive' to 'cheap as chips' fair on the veteran players. That's my gripe.
Other than that - bring on the new badges!
[B][COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]@Winter Flare[/COLOR] - [url="http://sites.google.com/site/thenewguardians"] The New Guardians[/url] - [url="http://www.badge-hunter.com/index.php?/page/view_player.php?id=339"] 1211 Badges [/url][/B]