QR
IIRC, the damage debuff after rage drop is -9999% but I could be wrong. Anyways, the thing is no realistic amount of damage buff will take you back to any good levels of damage. But 10 seconds aint too bad considering you're getting 110/120 seconds of +80% damage and +20% tohit if you have perma rage (which is easy).
[ QUOTE ]
Thinking about making a fire/ss scranker type but if rages -damage is heavy i might as well make a set with build up instead.
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you out of your mind? Just because of the 10 second damage debuff? Rage is basically a BU power with 120 second duration instead of 10 (!!!) and because of that you have to pay 10 seconds of no (very low) damage and reduced defence. Well worth it, IMO.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
thank you for the information, I didnt know the debuff was only 10 seconds.
Only other question i have to ask, as a scranker is there anything else generally more effective to pvp with?
I know i should be waiting for i13 but Im bored with my current alts lol. I was thinking maybe a fire/fire if not fire/ss, just because of the extra damage on fiery embrace too as well as build up.
I have built a few tankers before but they have always been defencively built and dont do well in pvp situations. Reason I havent gone scrapper is just because concept wise i want some form of range type attack too, even if its weak its just the concept of it really, with a tank i could have a fire/fire/fire.
Basically im looking for a jack of all trades type that specialises in melee, I have a peacebringer currently on 38 but i prefer to solo things rather than team things and a peacebringer just cant solo at all effectively.
Any veteran rewards are not effected by the "crash". I could also go further and recommend a SS/WP tank. A great solo melee tank, also pretty effective in teams.
@Boy Wonder
Quantum Flash - Ill/Kin Controller
Leader of the Legion of Heroes
I'd go Fire/SS/Fire personally - that way you have perma rage boosted damage most of the time but also get the benefit of fiery embrace on fire blast and fireball from the ancillary pool.
Defiant 50�s: Generalissimo, Righteous Bob, Splortch, Brutus Cayuga
Union 50's: Chimera Obscura, Diet Anthracite, Grim Proctologist, Puny Little Minion, Raging Bitumen
In Soviet Russia, mission farm you!
[ QUOTE ]
Any veteran rewards are not effected by the "crash". I could also go further and recommend a SS/WP tank. A great solo melee tank, also pretty effective in teams.
[/ QUOTE ]
WP/SS you mean 
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
[ QUOTE ]
Any veteran rewards are not effected by the "crash". I could also go further and recommend a SS/WP – tank. A great solo melee tank, also pretty effective in teams.
[/ QUOTE ]
Might as well just make an SS/WP Brute. Which is an unholy death machine most of the time.
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
[ QUOTE ]
Might as well just make an SS/WP Brute. Which is an unholy death machine.
[/ QUOTE ]Fixed.
I'd like to see the -Def get removed now for something(s) that all Tankers/Brutes can get to be plagued by.
<snips out an afternoons worth of maths + testing>
Short of shutting down every form of travel power and not being able to move for 10 secs there does not seem to be a fairer penalty. Being out of position at the wrong time can prove detrimental for anyone. Being capable of simply standing up and doing no damage is basically exhausted. The fact that one in PvE looks weak could still make taunt control likely as there is no better time to for a tanker to be attacked.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I'd prefer they made the crash 50% of your endurance and nothing else. This doesn't have anything at all to do with my SS Brute running with an endurance surplus and a desire not to have to stop smashing stuff.
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
-50% end hurts some sets worse than others. Invuln gets a big hit because it doesnt have a +end power, same goes for dark armour. Fire, ice, WP (the first ones to come to mind) all have a +end or +recovery power which could easily mitigate the endurance drop.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
What about -50% end and unable to recover end for 10 seconds, even through insp/clicks, sure that'd annoy most sets 
If not then add in a huge -speed debuff or long duration immob, sorted.
I am the Blaster, I have filled the role of Tank, Controller and Defender
Sometimes all at once.
Union EU player! Pip pip, tally ho, top hats and tea etc etc
Already sounds better. IMO all it needs is a sort of "nuke crash" without complete endurance drop. Has to be harsh enough to stop people from attacking though. If you get -100% recovery and -100% +end (they could do this with healing, shouldnt be impossible for +end) most people would stop attacking. In 10 seconds you can easily spend up all your leftover endurance.
Also the immobilization thing sounds good. Needs some developement though.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
[ QUOTE ]
This doesn't have anything at all to do with my SS Brute running with an endurance surplus and a desire not to have to stop smashing stuff.
[/ QUOTE ]
Talk about missing the point guys.
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
How about a light -Special debuff on self on top of the current Endurance crash, replacing the defense debuff. Examples of what I mean with -Special are in Poisons and Cold Domination.
Also didn't the original Rage have -Recovery? I thought that got removed reeeeeeal fast due to being just too damn horrible.
[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to see the -Def get removed now for something(s) that all Tankers/Brutes can get to be plagued by.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you can stack it before the original application starts to flash there is no def crash
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to see the -Def get removed now for something(s) that all Tankers/Brutes can get to be plagued by.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you can stack it before the original application starts to flash there is no def crash
[/ QUOTE ]
Which I dare say is not WAI.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to see the -Def get removed now for something(s) that all Tankers/Brutes can get to be plagued by.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you can stack it before the original application starts to flash there is no def crash
[/ QUOTE ]
Which I dare say is not WAI.
[/ QUOTE ]
Doom! And no one is supposed to mention stuff like that! The end crash didn't happen for while till Maelwys brought it up XD.
I really dislike the idea of 50 endurance going with every rage crash. It "still" does effect some tankers and Brutes more than others.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
Already sounds better. IMO all it needs is a sort of "nuke crash" without complete endurance drop. Has to be harsh enough to stop people from attacking though. If you get -100% recovery and -100% +end (they could do this with healing, shouldnt be impossible for +end) most people would stop attacking. In 10 seconds you can easily spend up all your leftover endurance.
Also the immobilization thing sounds good. Needs some developement though.
[/ QUOTE ]
Better? Just because now 2 def.. no atm just 1, set have issues of the defence it should be changed?
I wonder how people do maths, the only thing you should look at is the balance to the other melee sets. They have a 10sec 80% boost with a recharge of 45sec, where rage is perma with the same recharge (100%).
Imho the 10 sec downtime (be happy they at least let u attack to keep agro) is very much worth it. Lets take a simple one:
You can do 100 dmg per 10sec. This result:
100+80%=180*11 = 1980 (11 due 10sec no dmg)
BU based:
180+4,5*100+180+4.5*100+180 = 1440 (start BU, end BU)
500 dmg difference, that equals 50sec of BU-based attack.
Same goes for recharge, def based ice has -recharge resist, it will get hit way less by -recharge powers, thus can keep up rage easier then a resist based who get nonstop -recharge, thus not being able to maintain perma.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
Leave it as it is, I say 
.
�How do I like my MMOs? I like them the way Paragon Studios used to make them.� - a fitting tribute from kiasa.org
EU, Union mostly.
[ QUOTE ]
Better? Just because now 2 def.. no atm just 1, set have issues of the defence it should be changed?
[/ QUOTE ]Ice Armor, Invulnerability, Willpower, Energy Aura, Super Reflexes, Stone Armor
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Better? Just because now 2 def.. no atm just 1, set have issues of the defence it should be changed?
[/ QUOTE ]Ice Armor, Invulnerability, Willpower, Energy Aura, Super Reflexes, Stone Armor
[/ QUOTE ]
*looks at forum-section*
Nope, SR en EA not included
Ice and inv have enough backup powers to counter any -defence, inv even having a huge resist as primairy. Stone? Granite, 'nuf said. Besides, i asume popping a purple can counter it also?
Added, Rage should be used with care, same for the tier9 clicky powers (specialy unstoppable). If you play the big team tank, perhaps better just to pop a few red rather then risk the -defence.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
Rage affects tanks and brutes so all have to be considered.
Pre Tier 9:
-Def is alright for Invulns when the damage taken is Lethal or Smash. They have low energy resistance. Energy and -def is pain
-Def isn't always alright for Ice or Stone but despite the fact that they resist a lot of it, defense can come to "0" and and with no energy resistance - ouch. Willpower is in a similar boat as they have less hp. +HP is +Regen so Willpower needs additional regen to make up for a lack in +hp and +heal.
-Def is alright for Dark if they can control. They heal soon and often enough. Dark being dark has low energy resistance like Invulns but with less hp have to heal more often at the cost of endurance that is more than others. With the Rage crash more -end any changes won't help these.
SR and EA, no +HP and no self heal. EA doesn't see an eventual end problem. Both should hate neg energy and energy with -def. EA has to end drain fast to survive.
Fiery Aura is probably the only set that when swamped by energy damage and -def it really couldn't give a toot. Energy resists is 2/3rds higher than Darks Armours, it'll heal well relying on no targets and not consume much end in the process, in fact it has a power to put the sodding thing back so the rage crash isn't as bad unless there is end drain in the mix.
Some sets resist end drain more than others.
My point is, the rage crash doesn't effect all powersets equally.
Should Fiery Aura, to some peoples minds: lack a decent tier 9 partly for its not giving much of a toot for a rage crash in comparison to the rest?
The effects of being caught out of position:
Your damage is kaput anyway but being able to control is now also limited.
Your subject to the wrong attack types because the enemies went ranged on you.
Your defense is low because you can't up it without anything in range anyway.
Your incapable of using any powers that require a target in melee ie consume.
That person you wanted to keep control of, double stack rage + fiery embrace on in PvP maybe able to get away pretty nicely.
If you are caught in position then everyone's survivability is still where it would be. You should have the idea of when you are going to be too tired to move. It fits with the paltry damage and the idea of being exhausted.
Once everyone has their tier 9s then being caught out of position is going to be detrimental to Dark Armour "mainly" and yes that's strikes things as unfair but they can have 35ft of stealth from CoD meaning that until they get within 9ft of most anything in PvE it's barely an issue. At 9ft enemies go all melee.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Cant stack rage in pvp anymore from what i understand.
[ QUOTE ]
My point is, the rage crash doesn't effect all powersets equally.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is basicly with any power, be it buff, attack or sortlike. Each set it different, each set got pro and con's. Even the end-crash is way easier to compensate by fire, EA or ice then for inv or stone.
Should Fiery Aura, to some peoples minds: lack a decent tier 9 partly for its not giving much of a toot for a rage crash in comparison to the rest?
The effects of being caught out of position:
[ QUOTE ]
Your damage is kaput anyway but being able to control is now also limited.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you choose to be the main tank, it comes with responsibilities. If you know you will have no dmg, you shouldnt use it at all, unless you have no-dmg aura along with taunt (afaik all powers remain working with taunt, so i dont believe it is a issue at all btw).
Each set has problems. Take ice melee and it is survival and [censored] damage (well, used to be). Give it to a fiery aura tanker and it becomes a damage tank.
People still say Granite should become a clicky, they think the penalties are not 'strong' enough. I already showed how rage is way stronger then any other BU power, it has to have a strong penalty to compensate.
Be happy they at least removed the 10sec no attack at all, that was 10 times worse then it currently is.
lets turn it around, what would u suggest the rage crash would be?
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
After the effects of Rage on super strength wear off, the power states it has a special weaken effect on mids hero designer and also in game, can anyone tell me how much -damage this is in %? thats if the weaken effect is -damage, im assuming its not just -defence? also how long it lasts for would be helpful.
Its not listed on the power information bit.
Thinking about making a fire/ss scranker type but if rages -damage is heavy i might as well make a set with build up instead.