PvP Tank?

With i13 coming soon i would like to know more about tanks in zones and arena. Not to happy with ill storm(summoning everything takes awhile but is ok for duels) and i'm a slugger at heart.
Wondering if some experienced tanker could help me with some basic tips.

Seing most if not everything PvP is about to change in i13 my/our experiences are probably worth diddly currently

I'd suggest waiting and see what happens.

Roll Stone/Stone and 6 slot stone fist with recharge for epic DPS neo-blasting.

I was 6 slotting it for end reduction..... Cheers for the tip Rooks!

Ok nevermind i´ll try searching on the stateside forum.

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Ok nevermind i´ll try searching on the stateside forum.

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Well advice that side will be no more relevant than here.
PvP could well be a completely different prospect.

Whats the point in advising something that will probably be nerfed out of recognition? And chances are anything that is currently a high performance pvp set will no longer be that high performance in i13.

At this point your guess is as good as anyones.

So where´s the harm of getting a general idea of how it works now?

No harm in asking, just since we are on the doorstep off i13, it would be better off waiting with rolling a new toon atm.
But if you still wanna have a go, i would from these, wp, ice or fire/ss or EM. they are the most popular choices atm.

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So where´s the harm of getting a general idea of how it works now?

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Currently set wise, wp/energy seems to be a pvp popular choice because energy is rarely resisted in pvp at the minute and it does a lot of damage, plus its mostly single target based meaning endurence cost isnt as high.

That being said pve wise it struggles sometimes because of its lack of aoes etc.

The proposed pvp changes currently plan on giving everyone equal resists in pvp zones etc, this is why people are saying you may as well wait. If people can resist an energy attack the same as a super strength hit, then you may as well wait because rage would put your damage higher than energy since its just a permenant build up with -defence on it.

The thing is currently I would say that energy would be best but in a few weeks ive got a suspicion that wont be the case, thats why you should just wait a while or try a few builds out and see what you find fun to play rather than trying to build a pvp tank.

LOOKS to be Superstrength and Stone Melee at the moment for i13 due to obscene ranged damage from Hurl/Throw Boulder. Stone for more attacks and mez, SS for Perma Rage. Combined with the Pyre Epic pool (assuming it'll still have decent attacks once they're done fiddling with them) for a full ranged chain and hold.

However all could (and probably will) still change in Beta.

Not interested in powersets just in how tankers currently play. There must be more than running around taunting everything that moves right?

Er, what else is there in life?

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Not interested in powersets just in how tankers currently play. There must be more than running around taunting everything that moves right?

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Pretty much nope.

In teams it all comes down to very fast taunt spam to make sure that people stay on YOU. But realistically most tanks are useless on PvP teams as currently taunting is more of a distraction than a debuff.

That's assuming you're still in the traditional "Tank mindset" and not going for a damage-orientated build like Fire/EM or Fire/SS, or a combination survivability/disruption/annoyance build like Ice/Stone or Ice/EM.

Tanks can output decent damage whilst being survivable, but this DOES come down to powersets and in general buffed up blasters do a much better job unless you're just soloing in zones or one-on-one duelling (the old Ice/EM tank Hibernate builds). In general, it's EM's stuns and fairly unresisted damage, SuperStrength's Perma Rage and slightly-longer-than-melee-range KO blow, or Stone Melee's fast-activating attacks.

But this is going to change very, very soon. So as everyone else in the thread has advised you already, don't be building a new toon based on what will soon be out-of-date PvP mechanics and FOTM cliched builds.

Currently in zones, it is possible to have some success with a tank (I'm assuming that by success you mean getting kills). It is not easy though, and personally I've found the needed playstyle to be very different from in the PvE game.

If you get a team, you'll have a much easier time getting rep points. By and large however, the somewhat subpar damage and the focus on melee attacks means that you will be in a support role. Taunting dangerous foes to get them focused on you instead of others will be one of the most effective tactics, although you should always keep in mind that you are very unlikely to survive three or more villains in the long run barring team buffs, inspirations and/or creative use of Tier 9 powers/phase/teleportation.

Solo in a zone you'll have difficulties getting kills, again due to somewhat low melee damage. If you can, aim for high burst damage in your build as that is harder to protect against for enemies with a heal (Aid Self is very common), phase (also common) or escape powers. Most villains will not be able to kill you either, although there'll always be some dangerous set combinations. Dominators in particular are dangerous due to the holds. I'd recommend always carrying a few break frees, as well as monitoring hold and stun protection to see if you need to pop them. In case of Invulnerability, Unstoppable can give you very high mez protection for three minutes, will stay up even if you are mezzed and will make you very difficult to kill for anyone without psi or unresisted damage (note that Stalkers AS strike is not resistable, so a stalker/Dominator combo is dangerous. If there are stalkers around, do not get mezzed if you can avoid it).
Slows are also very dangerous for most tanks, Ice Armour excepted. Since you focus on melee damage, not being able to close the distance to your opponent will make you harmless. So along with Dominators, any villain with slow powers should be treated as a prioritized target.
I should note that if you are getting chased by a villain with a powerset combination able to take you out fairly easily, you can still "win" or at least make him work for his kills. In RV, standing close to a pillbox is one option. They can't hurt you much unless your toggles drop, but for a squishy they are much more dangerous. Picking up a Heavy, leading your opponent to a pillbox where half the Freedom Phalanx is having a party or picking up some temporary phase power are a few of the options available.

Furthermore, a tank mindset is not very useful in a zone. Especially the "I do not retreat" mentality, which gank squads love. Personally I've found it better to ambush villains; coming out of hide (if you have Stealth) or dropping from the skies (if you have Fly) to stun them with a power slotted for stun duration will give you time to finish them off. Strangely enough Superstrength's Handclap is very good for this, as it's a PbAOE and you can thus drop down into a group of squishies to stun the lot of them to focus on a single enemy without being disturbed. Plenty of the villains will carry Break Frees though. Note that stun and fear effects are far more useful for you than holds, as Acrobatics is a very common power pick.

The more sturdy opponents will give you trouble. Brutes, Masterminds and well-built Stalkers can prove troublesome. If you have good AoE output the masterminds will be less of a problem; against Brutes you will likely struggle as they are highly resistant, has very high damage output once fury gets up (which it will - you will have trouble taking them out without going toe-to-toe with them). Energy Melee has a very large advantage here, as you'll be able to stack stuns on them to drop their shields. It also prevents them running, which smart brutes will do if they see you're close to taking them out. Stalkers usually consider the 'retreat and heal up'-tactic more acceptable, and will frequently do so. Some also like to use Elude or similar powers to AS you, fight in melee and then retreat before it drops. Generally I'd recommend Focused Accuracy against stalkers - it gives extra perception and greatly boosts your ToHit. Not enough for Elude-running stalkers though, unless you use a lot of yellows (Rage is excellent for a Superstrength tanker though, as it also boosts ToHit by a large amount). Many tanker armour sets also have auras that a stalker will have to deal with in order to pull off an AS.

....

This post is becoming very long now, so I'll stop. Hopefully you'll find a bit of this useful, though as the other posters have mentioned the PvP rules will change shortly once I13 comes out.

Have fun.

Thanks Jess.

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In RV, standing close to a pillbox is one option. They can't hurt you much unless your toggles drop, but for a squishy they are much more dangerous. Picking up a Heavy, leading your opponent to a pillbox where half the Freedom Phalanx is having a party or picking up some temporary phase power are a few of the options available.

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Right, cause level 54 bosses, EB's and AV's all show how good you are. RV is a PvP zone, not PvE.

The rest of the post was quite an informative piece of information to new tanks and you'd be wise to listen to Jess as she's the hardest tank to take down that enters RV.

However, ignore the bit i quoted bar the part about phase. Doing any of that is extremely lame imo.

Thank you for the praise Rent.

Regarding the quoted part, I included it because it is good to know about and there are some situations where I do not mind if it is used, by either side. Those situations are mainly the ones where the fight is so skewed in one direction that it is not even close to being interesting: being chased by a gank squad composed of ATs and sets that are kryptonite to you, if someone with a kryptonite powerset combination has made you a number one target because you are easy to kill for them (especially Dominators with Confuse powers will be such enemies for a tank)... then, simply in order to make things interesting, using a heavy or NPCs is (at least to me) acceptable. I should note that I'm personally somewhat loathe to do what most do in such a situation: leave the zone to get more inspirations. That's mainly because I find it a bit boring - too much like a FedEx mission. Anyways, it's more fun/challenging to try and whack Arachnos while dodging the gank squads.

You are completely right to remark that those tactics are considered somewhat underhanded though, something to be aware of in the zones as you'll get lots of criticism over broadcast. I wouldn't consider using them if the fight is equal. I'd like to emphasize that most of the tricks, excepting the temporary powers, are easily avoidable by anyone paying attention in the zone. Against a smart player that is aware of the surroundings, you'll be in trouble even with them. Anyone's that run into the lvl 54 AVs will not make the mistake again (after all, there's a message going out which pillbox they are at), and if a Heavy or pillbox is troublesome it can always be taken out first or you can just ignore the person going there for awhile. Hanging around the pillbox/NPCs/et.c. is not really fun as you are in a zone to do PvP.

So to close off, yes, those tactics are used to cover up weaknesses that you'll have against some opponents. I don't think those weaknesses always are due to skill deficiency though, as there always are some opponents you're an easy target for. I prefer people to stay and get creative to make the fight interesting rather than to leave the zone.

Those who use it when it's not needed, or to cover up skill deficiency, well... I agree they don't and shouldn't get much respect.

Edit: then again, if you are new to PvP I could see the Heavies in particular as being a useful equalizer while you learn. An idea for the Suggestions section would be tying the use of Heavies to your PvP score. On the other hand one function of the Heavies is likely to act as an equalizer if your side is outnumbered (I'm second-guessing the developers intention here, hence the likely), so locking them if your side is outnumbering the others could be another idea.

Oh, I just remembered one more general zone advice: if you can stand the trash talk in broadcast, leave all the enemy broadcast/tell/et.c. options on. You don't have to say anything, but occasionally someone on the opposing side will tell you something useful. Examples include:

- LOL im out of bfs now...
Thank you, you're now a prioritized target.

- The AVs are at Delta.
Nice to know you're at Delta at the moment, saves me the trouble of looking for you.


And so on. You don't have to talk in broadcast, not even if you are being insulted, but it can be useful to listen on it. I do not know who said "Information is power", but it is very good advice.

Note to non-PvP community: All the PvPers I know who prefer arena to zonal (basically everyone I consider a proper PvPer) act in a much friendlier way than what the above post may imply as being the norm.


I see now why all the PvErs think that PvP is a very cold environment if the zonal community act like this.




....sheeesh.

Hi Rooks.

If you are referring to the "Thank you, you're now a prioritized target" comment then perhaps it did come across as somewhat cold. My personal view is that if I see something like that I will remember it but I would hold off attacking someone I consider a good player even if they do say it. By good player I mean not those good at zone PvP but more those who help newcomers, give tips and keeps it friendly.
If someone is not a newcomer in the zone though, or is acting in a way I disagree with, I will most likely go after them immediately and then give them a friendly hint over a tell that giving away such information in broadcast is not in their best interest to do.

I still stand by the comment that having enemy broadcast on is a valuable information channel. As with any other piece of information you can choose to ignore it though. And if I know I'm in a bad mood I'll consider switching it off in case there are flame wars going on, before I join in.

Going on those crazy test numbers shown over on US, Fire/SS/Fire is going pretty hawt. But as others have said it is almost certain things will change from beta so best bet is to wait.

Come on folks - theres no greater fun than tp'ing someone to a mob and web-nading them. gets the juices really flowing.

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Come on folks - theres no greater fun than tp'ing someone to a mob and web-nading them. gets the juices really flowing.

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Have been on the receiving side of that a couple of times Chilli

Anyways, back to the question in point.

PVP Arena or PVP Zonal?
whilst there are some builds that will work well in both, they are completely different sports.
I have an arena build that won't go near a pvp zone :P
Conversely have some zonal pvp builds that just fail utterly in the arena

The only pvp tank I've had real problems with in the arena is an ice/energy tank with hibernate and phase shift.

For zonal pvp wp/ss seems to be quite good at the moment.

But, as twenty seven different people have already said, I13 will quite possibly turn that completely upside down.

Fahie

Yep, I was going to post that this thread as all others go straight out of window when I13 hits.

Thanks but i got all info i wanted(and then some) from JRavens posts