CoX search function - What you like on competition
By
Carnifax,
Posted on: 2008-10-10 08:05 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
No screenshots or example from another game but I and several others havent been "moaning that we need a better search facility" we've been discussing ways how a search facility could be implemented.
from previous discussions:
a button (logically in the team search windows) that brings up a list of all team leaders (perhaps a team name could be created at start up ? ) advertising for team members.
Beside the team leader should be the level range of the team (or an average level) and the mission they are currently on as well as the zone they are currently in. Also it should show how many are currently on the team.
Expandable from the team leader name: A list of the current team members , their level and AT.
For team leaders:
Option to Create a team and perhaps assign a team name
An option to advertise in the list for team members (this should be a simple toggle).
In addition to this I would like to see an option for a player to be notified when a team advertises for members within a set of criteria selected by the player
level and/or zone and/or min number of current members
Additionally I would like to see a form of Event notification list implemented:
Personally I think this should be accessed through the city information terminals (or equivalent for vilain side).
The screen should act as a notice board where a player advertises his event.
format:
When (the date / time it is starting. events are removed as they pass 2 hours past their start time)
Where: meeting point
Who: who needs to be contacted to inquire further including a button that just sends an "interest notification" to the organiser.
What: what the event is (task force/ missions / hunting / costume contest / PVP challenge / arena etc)
Level range: levels from : to:
the poster should have an option to toggle whether or not his posting has an active contact option or not, thus if full he is not contactable and so not plagued by tells etc.
Additionally I think tells should go into a tab like the email so they dont zip past when you are in combat. instead you can wait until a quiet moment and review them at your leisure.
Anyway, thats my opinion. I'm sure there are better ways to do this and I'm sure people will have improvements / changes to my suggestion. Dont worry, I'm not going to be offended if everyone doesnt like it 
Heh, I'd just be happy if you could resize the window to actually read peoples search comments 
Being able to filter out people on TFs would also be really useful so you are not annoying them with tells asking to join their team when you can't.
Frankly, I doubt you'll see many screenshots, because team search is a universally derided concept the (MMO) world over.
WoW has one nice facility, which is that you can state that you are attempting to find a team for specific instances/raids/etc, but the way it is actually implemented sucks.
Of course, there are improvements which could be made, but if we're being honest, what's really needed is for people to learn to use the system they have rather than just yelling on broadcast. That's the case for every single MMO I've played in.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
redesign of the 'search tag'. Quick example:
(partly from WoW, where you can select a few)
-Taskforce
--Manticore
--Statemen
--respec 1/2/3
--etc etc
-Missions
--Any
--Co-op zone (RWZ for example)
--exemp/sk yes-no
-Hunting
--GM hunt for abrosio (or whatever its called)
--badge hunt (specify mob/badge?)
--Mob hunt (sewers, PI, RWZ merits)
As said above, team leader and teamsize.
People being in a TF should be tagged, no need to ask for invite or join.
Gamewise, redesign newspaper missions, traveling at low lvl is a plain nightmare, specialy if you have no travelpower along with high lvl mobs. Give leader all mission-entries on their map, so they dont have to tag each to see wich is closest.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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Frankly, I doubt you'll see many screenshots, because team search is a universally derided concept the (MMO) world over.
WoW has one nice facility, which is that you can state that you are attempting to find a team for specific instances/raids/etc, but the way it is actually implemented sucks.
Of course, there are improvements which could be made, but if we're being honest, what's really needed is for people to learn to use the system they have rather than just yelling on broadcast. That's the case for every single MMO I've played in.
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But the system we have is pretty rubbish, you've no idea which teams are doing what and which teams would actually like some extra people.
An Open Teams system (as per my question to BaB) would be my #1 QOL feature to CoX.
Yeah have to second that. Not that I am ungrateful for the great stuff announced for i13 but improving the search engine would be a huge QoL improvement.
Then again we are EU players with a smaller player base whereas US side I think getting teams is easier due to greater player numbers, so maybe not as big an issue?
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WoW has one nice facility, which is that you can state that you are attempting to find a team for specific instances/raids/etc, but the way it is actually implemented sucks.
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Heh... or to put it another way WoW has (or had, 18 months ago) an incredibly over-complicated system which hardly anybody used - unlike the broadcast spam which lots of people used successfully until they killed it in favour of this. 
@the OP
We've had loads of discussions about better search facilities in this game over the years, simple things like being able to filter a search for team leaders, or team leaders having an icon next to their name in the list window seem to have fallen on deaf ears; so I'm coming to the conclusion that either the devs aren't really interested, or they can't edit the existing thing easily and are having to rebuild it from scratch.
WAR currently has the best team search facility of any of the MMOs I play; click a button and it gives you a list of open teams, with the distance (time to reach them) number of members, and what activity they're engaged in (PvE, PvP, Public Quest), click another button, and you join the team - no invite required.
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WAR currently has the best team search facility of any of the MMOs I play; click a button and it gives you a list of open teams, with the distance (time to reach them) number of members, and what activity they're engaged in (PvE, PvP, Public Quest), click another button, and you join the team - no invite required.
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Sorry, but if I'm playing with a couple of guys from my SG then I'd be a little put out if someone randomly invited themselves to my team. I don't mind people asking, but as usually we only play a couple of missions I don't want people to join my team to find we are quitting half a mission later. Not fair on them or us.
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WAR currently has the best team search facility of any of the MMOs I play; click a button and it gives you a list of open teams, with the distance (time to reach them) number of members, and what activity they're engaged in (PvE, PvP, Public Quest), click another button, and you join the team - no invite required.
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Sorry, but if I'm playing with a couple of guys from my SG then I'd be a little put out if someone randomly invited themselves to my team. I don't mind people asking, but as usually we only play a couple of missions I don't want people to join my team to find we are quitting half a mission later. Not fair on them or us.
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Then you don't mark your Team as Open or Looking for Members and it doesn't show in the list.
WAR lists Open Parties, that is Parties specifically looking for members. If you don't want members you set the Party as Closed
@Charnel: It doesn't matter how many we are, having a better search system is something that will help us either way.
@Sugar_Rush: As long we are interested, we have to show it. The moment that threads like this stop surfacing, then it's like we declaring that we aren't interested anymore so why the devs to a give a dam.
@Carnifax: Current system is very primitive indeed but without specific feature suggestions, I don't think how else we can help devs to build a picture of what we need.
I did say 'open' teams.
I would just be happy with the Star by the team leader so I dont get tells which I then have to redirect (Im a secretary and have enough of redirecting/taking messages at work!) and for members on a full team either to not appear or be blocked/redded out.
Member of GGRRR, a SG on Defiant - check out our website - GGRRR
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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I like both of those ideas, full teams=red names on search (or not appearing at all) and star next to the Team leader. They are simple fixes (to my none programmy brain like object...I'm sure some of our programmers here will prove me wrong )that should help tremendously.
My only wish is that it's not overly complicated. If I'm the team leader I dont want to be sorting the current team AND have to tackle the search function so it gives out the info I require. If it's quick and easy and, obviously most importantly, it works I'm all for it
I don't wanna save my soul now,
I just wanna lose control,
And even if it takes a lifetime, to learn:
I'll learn!
@Carnifax[ QUOTE ]
But the system we have is pretty rubbish
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I didn't say it couldn't be better, I said you'd be hard pressed to get examples from other games which would improve it. LFT systems are almost universally rubbish, and are almost universally not used by players.
@Sugar Rush:[ QUOTE ]
unlike the broadcast spam which lots of people used successfully until they killed it in favour of this.
[/ QUOTE ]
You mean they killed the LFG channel, right? They put it back because people still refused to use the LFT system and they just switched to yelling on Broadcast instead.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
WAR has another little touch which might work well here, individual party members can 'invite' to a team - it doesn't actually invite though, it brings up a little confirmation dialog for the team leader...that would help with all those redirection tells!
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@Sugar Rush:[ QUOTE ]
unlike the broadcast spam which lots of people used successfully until they killed it in favour of this.
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You mean they killed the LFG channel, right? They put it back because people still refused to use the LFT system and they just switched to yelling on Broadcast instead.
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Haha, did they?
After my time, but not really surprising!
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@Carbifax[ QUOTE ]
But the system we have is pretty rubbish
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I didn't say it couldn't be better, I said you'd be hard pressed to get examples from other games which would improve it.
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Sugar and myself have already posted an example : WARs Open Party system.
Edit : Carbifax, I like it. Makes me sound like a pasta-based snack food.
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@Carbifax[ QUOTE ]
But the system we have is pretty rubbish
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I didn't say it couldn't be better, I said you'd be hard pressed to get examples from other games which would improve it.
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Sugar and myself have already posted an example : WARs Open Party system.
Edit : Carbifax, I like it. Makes me sound like a pasta-based snack food.
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Are you being alarmingly pedantic today Carni? Or is it just a general thing?
'Hard pressed' does not mean 'impossible.' Well done, you've found one example in one game where a sub-component of the LFT system could be added giving an improvement.
PS. Typos can produce such glorious results. I corrected it in the original, but you lot are posting fast. 
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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@Carbifax[ QUOTE ]
But the system we have is pretty rubbish
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I didn't say it couldn't be better, I said you'd be hard pressed to get examples from other games which would improve it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sugar and myself have already posted an example : WARs Open Party system.
Edit : Carbifax, I like it. Makes me sound like a pasta-based snack food.
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you being alarmingly pedantic today Carni? Or is it just a general thing?
'Hard pressed' does not mean 'impossible.' Well done, you've found one example in one game where a sub-component of the LFT system could be added giving an improvement.
PS. Typos can produce such glorious results. I corrected it in the original, but you lot are posting fast.
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You're being pretty pedantic yourself Ravens 
The thing is the "one feature" in WAR is also one BaB himself has said previously would be a cool feature to add. Which is why I'm harping on about it. It's also no stranger to the Suggestions Board for yonks.
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WAR currently has the best team search facility of any of the MMOs I play; click a button and it gives you a list of open teams, with the distance (time to reach them) number of members, and what activity they're engaged in (PvE, PvP, Public Quest), click another button, and you join the team - no invite required.
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Sorry, but if I'm playing with a couple of guys from my SG then I'd be a little put out if someone randomly invited themselves to my team. I don't mind people asking, but as usually we only play a couple of missions I don't want people to join my team to find we are quitting half a mission later. Not fair on them or us.
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Then you don't mark your Team as Open or Looking for Members and it doesn't show in the list.
WAR lists Open Parties, that is Parties specifically looking for members. If you don't want members you set the Party as Closed
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Ah, ok. I've never played any MMO other than this 
That would be useful here then, it would be handy to filter out those teams that don't want any more players.
To be honest, at this point anything they did to the team search window would be an improvement 
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You're being pretty pedantic yourself Ravens
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Well, no, but whatever. 
Anyway, yes, it does sound like a good system, though it also sounds pretty much the same as all the other LFM systems out there (Looking for Member) aside from the fact that it seems like the team leader doesn't get to filter people joining (could be wrong, not played WAR, no intention to try).
Fact is, LFM systems don't get used any more than LFT systems do. There's a perfectly adequate LFM system on LotRO, actually a very good one. However, what people actually do is scream on Broadcast for members instead.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Anyway, yes, it does sound like a good system, though it also sounds pretty much the same as all the other LFM systems out there (Looking for Member) aside from the fact that it seems like the team leader doesn't get to filter people joining (could be wrong, not played WAR, no intention to try).
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Nope. there's no filtering system, you just click and off you go.
CoH is so casual that thats probably a good thing. Don't think i'd like a system where the leader is able to say "We're only open for healers".
And apologies for any aggressiveness today, too much coffee / too little nicotine (stupid body, stop craving).
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Fact is, LFM systems don't get used any more than LFT systems do. There's a perfectly adequate LFM system on LotRO, actually a very good one. However, what people actually do is scream on Broadcast for members instead.
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You see, I opened that window, goggled at it for a moment, went "urk" and closed it again - it bore a striking resemblence to the WoW one to me; this may in fact be totally unfair, but since I only ever play LotRO when my wife does I've never felt moved to investigate further.
The reason Carni & I are banging on about the WAR LFT system is it does seem to work; people do use it, and it's blindingly simple; sure they generally use it to make short-lived teams in the nature of WoW & LotROs teams; but that's a problem with the basic quest system in those games - CoH has the great advantage of being able to see what quests party-members have and be able to set the active mission - this is a trick the other games missed.
/edit
"blindingly simple" does not mean foolproof of course; a few times now I've been in a Public Quest in an Open Team of 3 or 4 members with an unteamed player spamming "INVITE PLZ" in local.
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CoH has the great advantage of being able to see what quests party-members have and be able to set the active mission
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That tells you what a team are doing now, not what they plan to do, plus there's a 90% chance that the mission title is going to meaningless to someone looking anyway.
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The reason Carni & I are banging on about the WAR LFT system is it does seem to work
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Begging pardon, but the reason it works is that it was there from day one. LotROs was definately retro-fitted, I'm guessing that WoW's was also. It's too late for CoX, because the playerbase already thinks of the LFT/M system as a lost cause.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
We all know what our current in-game search function offers. We also know that competitive products have some strengths and weaknesses compared to it.
Moaning "we need better search engine" is a mistake that I made too in the past. The reason that this doesn't work is because it's too generic. We need new features that are already proved at other games that work and that actually will offer something good to ours.
Hopefully in this thread we can gather a list of strengths of the member & team search engines that other games have, complete with screenshots and a reason of why it will be good to be implemented in CoX too.
I will ask to try not to discuss the search engine weaknesses of the competitive products as the goal of this thread is to make a list of specific features to pass later at the suggestion thread as "specific search engine addition and improvements" and not to race CoX against others.
I will be glad to see screenshots too because most probably I (and many others reading us) won't be familiar with all those games. Try to be constructive on your criticism.