Call me cynical but........
By
Blue Rabbit,
Posted on: 2008-09-25 17:41 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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based on the popularity of the WAR thread
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Hmm, yeah, popularity of the WAR thread. So that would be people who either are interested in WAR, but haven't bought it, or have subscriptions to both games, yes? Can't post here without a subscription...
My point is that a lot of people can afford to run a couple of subscriptions at once and CoX is a fairly casual game to play. Hell, I can't afford it and I haven't killed my WoW subscription to come back here. (I'd possibly have gone with WAR myself if I'd never played the RPG. I think I'll be badly dissapointed if I go try the online version.)
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There are plenty of CoX players who are or used to be WoW, LOTR or WAR players too.
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Mmhmm, but you aren't actually stating anything that puts them in competition. I went to LotRO from CoX, but I closed down my CoX account not because I was playing LotRO, but because I was not playing CoX.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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based on the popularity of the WAR thread
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Hmm, yeah, popularity of the WAR thread. So that would be people who either are interested in WAR, but haven't bought it, or have subscriptions to both games, yes? Can't post here without a subscription...
My point is that a lot of people can afford to run a couple of subscriptions at once and CoX is a fairly casual game to play. Hell, I can't afford it and I haven't killed my WoW subscription to come back here. (I'd possibly have gone with WAR myself if I'd never played the RPG. I think I'll be badly dissapointed if I go try the online version.)
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There are plenty of CoX players who are or used to be WoW, LOTR or WAR players too.
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Mmhmm, but you aren't actually stating anything that puts them in competition. I went to LotRO from CoX, but I closed down my CoX account not because I was playing LotRO, but because I was not playing CoX.
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Playing time is a finite resource (at least it is for me) so that's where the competition arises. I'm currently not playing CoX because I'm playing WAR.
That's assuming the Devs care about active server population rather than just subs of course (which I would, I'd consider active server population and playtime a more reliable metric than subscription levels. You want people playing your game rather than another one).
Fair, but the subscription levels are what the accountants look at, and the marketting department, and the gaming magazines...
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Fair, but the subscription levels are what the accountants look at, and the marketting department, and the gaming magazines...
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But not the player base really, they look at how active the game seems to be to them, and base their opinions on that. At least that's how I read the "Merge the Servers now" threads and their ilk.
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Playing time is a finite resource (at least it is for me) so that's where the competition arises. I'm currently not playing CoX because I'm playing WAR.
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Ditto (and the converse, money isn't so short that I can't afford to keep both acounts open, even when I'm not playing on one).
WAR is undoutably serious competition for CoX, much more so than CO is likely to be.
I really should do something about this signature.
Oh, on this
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and the marketting department
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This is 100% wrong IMO, only a poor marketing person would base their plan of action on one measurement (how many Subscriptions are currently active). A good one will look at how the product is perceived and used as well as how much Sales are going on. Stuff like what people are saying on boards, in media and so on, and figures for on people are using the product they are paying for, whether it be numbers of concurrent users, how often / long they use the product and what they do when ingame.
Hmmm, don't know.
Sure some people will wander of to play WAR and later WotLK.
Some will return. Normal thing really.
And someday CoH will stop, also normal.
I personally still see CO as the main competitor (of course it depends how good CO is in the end).
For something to compete it needs to be a both a quality product and offer something genuinely new. This is something that is very rare in the world of MMOs. WAR succceeds. AoC failed to to that. TR failed to do that. the odds are CO will fail to do that, especially based on the info released so far.
I really should do something about this signature.
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WAR succceeds.
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In your opinion, of course. WAR offers nothing new to me. I have a subscription to WoW. The idea that WAR offers anything new is... funny, in my view (of course).
CO is a potential replacement for CoX, as such it is much more serious competition than WAR or WoW. I doubt I'd drop my CoX subscription again for either WAR or WoW, but I might drop it for CO since if it is a better game (big if), I'm not going to pay for two superhero MMOs long term.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
Meh I dunno, how many people play an MMO simply because its an MMO and how many people actually choose this mmo because its not more elves, dwarfs, orcs and fairyland rubbish....gawd I'm sick of the fantasy genre in games!
Lack of elves is definatly a point in CoXs favour, but TR was also elfless, and that didn't make it good.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Lack of elves is definatly a point in CoXs favour, but TR was also elfless, and that didn't make it good.
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Its the fantasy thing that pulls people in and keeps them there. Fantasy is far more accepted than science fiction. People will read a ten book fantasy series and play a fantasy game, where as science fiction is more difficult to sell.
In the order of acceptability it goes:
Fantasy
Science Fiction
Comics
PnP Roleplaying (Shhh. Don't tell anyone I know about this stuff. 
)
LARP (If you don't know, don't ask. )
CoX works as its the only super hero MMOG. TR has lower subscriptions than Eve because it wasnt appealing to science fiction people enough, it was appealing to Halo players and Halo players can play Halo TR doesnt offer them enough extra stuff. SWG should have worked, but it got messed around with and just wasnt fun to play for most people who like Star Wars.
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CO is a potential replacement for CoX, as such it is much more serious competition than WAR or WoW. I doubt I'd drop my CoX subscription again for either WAR or WoW, but I might drop it for CO since if it is a better game (big if), I'm not going to pay for two superhero MMOs long term.
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My point better put. 
Thx...
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EVE Succeeds because it has a high level of reality, that isn't to say that space ships are real and stuff but the fact that you can be a business executive or a pirate or a corporate spy and stay within the rules.
TR doesn't because while it is sci-fi it isn't anything new, its an MMO that just happens to have a sci-fi front end, on top of which it tries too hard to be something for everyone. Something that EVE and other well subscribed MMOs don't IMO.
Whether you love or loath WoW it is a good example of a well made MMO, it has something for most (not all) people; you can RP, PvP, PvE, Raid and that's just the actual game. It has a large community and within certain aspects of that community the community is even friendly and well spoken. EVE and CoX both have that though IMO CoX needs more out of game experience stuff to be truly great.
By that I'm referring to the UI/Lua scripting community, WoW's Armoury, EVE's API which allows a lot of out of game functionality. If you encourage people to hang around even when they aren't in game then IMO half of your battle for repeat subscriptions is won already.
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I wouldnt mind betting that it comes out around the second week in November, funnily enough, thats coincides with Wrath of the Lich King, the WoW expansion.
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First off, no matter how much people like to think it, or compare them, WoW and CoX are not in any form of competition. They are massively different, in different genres, of different play styles, and if NC are sheduling thier releases based on WoW (and WAR for that matter) then they are being very thick. And, frankly, I don't think they are.
The competition CoX has is yet to come out. It's CO and DCUO, and rumour has it that I14 and CO's release may be rather close together, which is far more likely a happenstance.
Secondly, if you go look at WoW Insider, you'll see a report wondering how Blizzard are going to get even vaguely close to that release date. Burning Crusade was several weeks late, as I recall. Planning your release schedules around when Blizzard say something is coming out is kind of like aiming at a moving target while standing on a teeter-board.
PS. I posted on Creative yesterday, and looked in on it today. I go there at least once a day. Grow up?
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Okay I give up.
I was just raising a point and by my own admission was cynical.
And by the way the last Issue came out the day AoC was released, and although I know they are not in direct competion, other games can pull people off of an old game with long periods of nothing new.
I have seen it with the amount of people who either havent logged on for ages in SG or Global, or by people who played all hours logging off at 10pm or earlier due to boredom.
Dont get me wrong, I love this game, but I do wish it could have something to inject new life into it, which the next issue may or may not do.
Personally I dont think the mission creator will, because at the end of the day its the same old maps and enemies.
However I will end there as although for the most part the community here is good, you also get people who cant have a discussion without having a go at people and being childish.
For your information I am perfectly "grown up" and you think people need to grow up just because they dont share your opinion, then personally I feel you are the childish one.
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EVE Succeeds because it has a high level of reality,
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and because folks want a second job? I remember being very interested in the player based power structure, then discovered the massive investment of time the game would need.
shazan
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I was just raising a point and by my own admission was cynical.
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You reap what you sow.
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EVE Succeeds because it has a high level of reality,
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and because folks want a second job? I remember being very interested in the player based power structure, then discovered the massive investment of time the game would need.
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I know of several people who play or played EVE especially because they enjoyed the business management aspect, now they could be the only ones but having looked around they aren't.
Now me personally I'm not a huge fan of EVE, mainly as I play games for fun and EVE is far too much work. I like the idea far more than the reality. 
I will admit I stopped playing CoX for a couple of weeks while I was giving WAR a try. I am fan of the original tapletop game so thought I would like this.
Like people have said WAR is something new and they have been hyping a lot so of course people will go and give it a go. However, what attracts me to CoX isn't really present in WAR so I dont think I will be there for long.
I dont particularly read the creative board much, I will admit that. But to be honest there is still so much about the CoX world that I dont know anyway I find myself reading Paragon Wiki for back ground info etc.
And when I heard that the mission creator is being put off till I14 I was a little upset because I am frustrated fanfiction writer and thought this would be a fun way to get my creative juices flowing!
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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I have seen it with the amount of people who either havent logged on for ages in SG or Global, or by people who played all hours logging off at 10pm or earlier due to boredom.
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And I came back to the game around the time that AoC came out, and since then I have seen a positive flurry of others returning to the game after varying degrees of absence.
Additional to that, if I go look at people's badges, I am as likely to discover that they have no Vet badges as I am to discover they have a few or a lot. In fact, standing in Steel Canyon CH a couple of weeks ago, I found no one with any Vet badges. That indicates a reasonable influx of new players.
Now, two points:
Over on WoW, my guild has been shrinking over the last few months, and a lot of players are muttering about being bored and going to AoC (not for long) and WAR. They'll be back for Wrath, it's summer holiday MMO blues.
Point Two: Have you considered that maybe it's your SG and friends who are going, getting bored of the same game for a long time. I did that almost two years ago and here I am, back again. I also left because a lot of old faces had packed in and gone off elsewhere. Several of them have returned since, or just keep coming back. (Some never leave, I think NC has them blackmailed, or they can't figure out how to log off.)
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but I do wish it could have something to inject new life into it
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It has had new life injected, otherwise I would never have bothered. I've spent a month doing practically all new content and there's more to come when they finish Cimerora.
And I realise you don't think much of the Mission Architect (without seeing it), but it will be a source of new and interesting content (if not in bulk).
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Personally I dont think the mission creator will, because at the end of the day its the same old maps and enemies.
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Neverwinter Nights sold on its module creation system. And it was a tile-based editor, always the same maps, in effect, and you only had the monsters the game came with, you couldn't just create them from whole cloth.
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For your information I am perfectly "grown up" and you think people need to grow up just because they dont share your opinion, then personally I feel you are the childish one.
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Perhaps. However, I'm not basing my opinions on my own jadedness with the game. When I got bored of it, I left and went off to find something that was more entertaining, I didn't post "this game is boring" posts on the forums.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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I dont particularly read the creative board much, I will admit that. But to be honest there is still so much about the CoX world that I dont know anyway I find myself reading Paragon Wiki for back ground info etc.
And when I heard that the mission creator is being put off till I14 I was a little upset because I am frustrated fanfiction writer and thought this would be a fun way to get my creative juices flowing!
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Come to the creative forum. Post something. Its fun. The waters warm.
/em hypnotic stare off
I don't read the creative forums very often mostly when I cannot find anything else on the internet to amuse me, but I do like to read the texts of story arcs I have not been in before and look forward to the creative juices of other players, and to trying my own hand at interesting others with the mission creator. As to other games yes when something attracts my eye I will give it a try once again spore was fun until the a day into space age then started over again. Just like CoX I love that I can bust out a new toon get started and the early game is very fast and still exilerating even after 3 years.
I love the new booster pack and I love that our devs have stopped the mission creator because of the feedback even before beta to add something that has been requested above all else.
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I'm sick of the bad representaions of the fantasy genre in games!
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Fixed a little
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The water's warm.
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Look past the lies! It's warm because they keep peeing in it!
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I am frustrated fanfiction writer and thought this would be a fun way to get my creative juices flowing!
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I think this game still has a lot of potential and the Devs seem to be taking a road leading to new possibilities within which other MMOs could be influenced.
Give it a few years and some fortune and people maybe asking why we still play this. I am hoping that answer will be "Well every other game offers the same thing as each other, I go in and I hit things. Once I got the jist of the game mechanics its all a matter of rinsing and repeating but with this game I am creating things, I have something to constantly try to tap into and think about, my ideas can come reality, I am the Dev and I don't have the slightest clue about programming!"
Yeah, I want to create the characters, the story, the missions, the cinematics and yes even trailers!
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Some of you are saying you are looking forward to it, but lets face it, when was the last time you checked out the creative forum? I thought so.......
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Iv been in the creative forums about once or twice the entire time iv been in the game, but when that mission creator comes out (with custom enemies now xD woohoo!!! dream come true!!!) im going to use it to the max!!!! xD
I always thought creative forum was to put your own videos/artwork etc up, not to discuss personal missions (which deserve their own forum section now imo).
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.....I reckon more people left or stopped playing due to WAR than the Devs thought and thats why the announcement has come out today.
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I think this has more to the fact that a lot of players were getting restless about no new information and they kind of had to tell us that the mission creator wasnt in issue 13 as soon as possible. After all could you imagine the outrage if it hit open beta and people found no custom missions?
"where the **** is the mission creator?!"
Dev: "oh didnt we tell you? its in the next issue now"
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