Zone Devastation, Reconstruction, Normality.
By
craggy,
Posted on: 2008-08-14 19:39 in Suggestions and Ideas
Ooooh I like this idea! A nice way to bring life back into sadly under used hazard zones. I'm not sure though how Crey's Folly or Boomtown could actually get any worse though.
I THINK this would involve a pile of work to change the existing zones. RV was designed from the outset to change like this, IMO it's not really worth the effort needed.
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I THINK this would involve a pile of work to change the existing zones. RV was designed from the outset to change like this, IMO it's not really worth the effort needed.
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It would be better, and more in-keeping with the game to have the zone areas each independent of the rest of the zone, perhaps? As the zombie horde makes it's way across the map, the zones could become "devastated"...
Perhaps just have one area of a zone fit work with the mechanic, to begin with, and add others as time goes on. This would allow them to spread out the workload.
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Mission Architect 91838 - Constantinople Jones' Family Secret. A One Mission Story arc.
It's a good shortcut to destructible terrain. I like it!
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It's a good shortcut to destructible terrain. I like it!
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If I'm in a car with you, and you suggest that we take a shortcut, I am going to respectfully decline. 
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Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
So basically you want a zone revamp of every existing city/hazard/trial zone in the game? Me too, but not all at once. Honestly if the Devs started now they might be finished revamping all of them by this time next year, but only if they stop giving us any other content in the meantime and we wouldn't want that.
What a curmudgeon! It's a suggestion. I hope it's taken seriously as such by those who might take action, and not dismissed in such a selfish and ignorant manner as Valkryst's.
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Mission Architect 91838 - Constantinople Jones' Family Secret. A One Mission Story arc.
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What a curmudgeon! It's a suggestion. I hope it's taken seriously as such by those who might take action, and not dismissed in such a selfish and ignorant manner as Valkryst's.
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"I'd like the idea but understand it isn't massively feasible right now" is selfish?
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What a curmudgeon! It's a suggestion. I hope it's taken seriously as such by those who might take action, and not dismissed in such a selfish and ignorant manner as Valkryst's.
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And the devs can't act on every suggestion made, nor can they do things instantly. You have to decide what you think the priorities should be. Do you think the devs should drop everything right now to work on your suggeston, and not release an issue until it is done? The dynamic zone changes in RV was one of the main reasons issue 7 was delayed so long. Was it worth the wait?
Oh, by the way, calling someone a curmudgeon is a personal attack, and therefore against forum rules.
I really should do something about this signature.
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What a curmudgeon! It's a suggestion. I hope it's taken seriously as such by those who might take action, and not dismissed in such a selfish and ignorant manner as Valkryst's.
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Just because he doesn't like the idea and has explained quite rationally why he doesn't think it's workable, doesn't make him "ignorant", nor does it make him "selfish".
Throwing your toys out just because someone disagrees with you is never going to win you any favours with anyone, muchless "those who might take action"
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Do you think the devs should drop everything right now to work on your suggeston,
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I'm saying that I think someone somewhere should have a good look at the suggestions forum, and not just look for thing that are "common suggestions". That's all.
Please fight My Brute: http://2hero.mybrute.com
Mission Architect 54161 - Michael Mundano, Megan Malloney and the Secret Senate.
Mission Architect 91838 - Constantinople Jones' Family Secret. A One Mission Story arc.
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I'm saying that I think someone somewhere should have a good look at the suggestions forum, and not just look for thing that are "common suggestions". That's all.
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Then you undertsand that a complete revamp of all the city zones is impractical?
Anyway, I'm against this for practical purposes. It all sounds great, and a dynamic world is wonderful, but that 'reduced facilities' bit...
So, I'm a new player and I start my first character and I do the tutorial and enter Paragon City proper on my brand spanking new wolverine-clone. "Wow, this place looks like an army ran over it," says I. "Cool stuff, not very comic book, more post-apocalypse, but hey, it's a starting area." I then go on to discover there are no shops to sell anything to and half the contacts have gone missing. Except that I don't know that that's just because of the current city state. "This game sucks," I say, and go back to playing WoW.
In WoW itself, one lovely griefing tactic is to march into a lowbie area and slaughter the NPCs. Horde and Alliance both do it and I'm sure they think it's clever. Anyway, it denies people access to resources at that site until they respawn (at which point they will likely be killed again) and it's no fun.
I'm not a great fan of the Rikti invasions (though I have vague fun once in a while during one) for two reasons:
1. The Rikti drop huge bombs which blow up and do no damage.
2. They totally disrupt normal PvE activities. Try doing a Kill X mission when the Rikti decide to move in.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Then you undertsand that a complete revamp of all the city zones is impractical?
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Yes, it's an idea. Play with it, distort it, toss it around a lot. Just don't dismiss stuff because the initial concept is impraticable. THere's scope for downsizing the idea, you don't have to have it in normal zones (you could JUST have it in ONE tiny AREA within a hazard zone), it's not a solid well thought out totally finalised design.
Please fight My Brute: http://2hero.mybrute.com
Mission Architect 54161 - Michael Mundano, Megan Malloney and the Secret Senate.
Mission Architect 91838 - Constantinople Jones' Family Secret. A One Mission Story arc.
But it already happens in RV, so it has been implemented in one area. And implementing it significantly delayed production of that Issue.
And you just totally ignored the rest of my post to pick the one bit you could use to accuse me of dismissing your suggestion 'out of hand.' I am not dismissing it out of hand, I'm dismissing it after some careful thought and experience of comparable behaviour in other games.
Want something I could agree with? Well, everyone is always saying that Boomtown needs to be rebuilt. How about doing it Ahn'Quiraj-style? Set up a set of repeatable/non-repeatable missions which are based around clearing the area out and setting up a forward base. Then another set to further push into the area, regaining ground and rebuilding buildings. Slowly the place turns into a city zone.
However, let's go further and suggest that it's a two way street. The villains of the piece (perhaps aided by hired Villains out of the Rogue Isles) can push back. (I'm not proposing turning it into a PvP Zone, not in any way.)
Advantage: Boomtown has no shops or contacts, so you can't disrupt the normal flow of PvE if it falls back into chaos.
Call it a Competitive PvE Zone.
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Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
/sign to Ravenswing's idea. Still /unsign to the original based on points so far.
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I am not dismissing it out of hand, I'm dismissing it after some careful thought and experience of comparable behaviour in other games.
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Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
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I like the idea, but I've yet to make it to RV so I didn't even know that was the case there. Its not something I'd like to see in every zone, but maybe doing it in another one or 2 could be interesting. Boomtown isn't really used for much is it?
@craggy see me on Union for TFs, SFs (please!) or just some good ol fashioned teaming.
What I'd like to see is something better than a "Hazard Zone". It seems to me that these are intended as old school farming areas which repop periodically to keep players busy.
I think we expect more from our zones nowadays, and that one wau of doing this could be by dynamically changing the land as well as/instead of the mob spawns/behaviour.
Ravenswing's Ahn'quiraj idea would be an excellent way of varying the content and providing something (importantly: SOMETHING REPEATABLE) for players to do other than spawn bashing.
Can you think of a way of improving upon it?
Please fight My Brute: http://2hero.mybrute.com
Mission Architect 54161 - Michael Mundano, Megan Malloney and the Secret Senate.
Mission Architect 91838 - Constantinople Jones' Family Secret. A One Mission Story arc.
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I like the idea, but I've yet to make it to RV so I didn't even know that was the case there. Its not something I'd like to see in every zone, but maybe doing it in another one or 2 could be interesting.
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If you have never seen RV, the basic idea is that it is in some form of temoral flux. By winning and holding the area, heroes or villains can push the zone to their side for a few minutes before it resets to its neutral position and you start again. Mostly what happens when it changes is that the flags change on the twon hall.
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Boomtown isn't really used for much is it?
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Boomtown and Dark Astoria are almost totally unused. Both have mission doors and getting a mission in them is generally viewed upon as "oh hell, I've got to go all the way out there."
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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What I'd like to see is something better than a "Hazard Zone". It seems to me that these are intended as old school farming areas which repop periodically to keep players busy.
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Whatever the Hazard Zones were intended for, they are slowly being altered to be more useful. The Hollows has had two revamps, Faultline got its revamp, the Rikti Crash Site has become the Rikti War Zone. Doing more interesting things than having big, empty, pointless, hated expanses of real-estate is a good way to go with Boomtown and maybe DA. (I really would like to see something done with DA, but then I've always felt that the BP are a dead loss and could have been so much better. There's a story there in DA and we haven't been told it.)
City Zones, on the other hand, are there for mainline PvE levelling activities. I dislike anything that disrupts that, but at least things like Rikti Invasion events only last a short time. What you are proposing would make entire zones unusable for days. I can't think of a way to improve that aside from doing it as a way to slowly turn Hazard Zones into something with some character.
That said, I'm not claiming to be any form of creative genius, so someone else might come up with a way to make it work in a City Zone. I just doubt anything that work work would satisfy your desires.
Oh, another advantage of using a Hazard Zone is that they are already level limited and controled access. This would likely make allowing villains in far easier and deny them further progress into the city. I don't actually believe NCNC are likely to create another PvP Zone, but Cooperative Zones seem to be flavour of the month.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
I'd like to respond to your points:
The Rikti invasions are a work of genius and are used sparingly they are fine, particularly since players aren't usually in the city zones doing the PvE levelling you mention, rather they are in the instances.
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What you are proposing would make entire zones unusable for days.
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I'd say that the zones are usable, but they are devastated, they look a mess. Perhaps this would give players some desire to prevent it happening in the future? Although I mentioned a possible "denial of service" mechanic, I've also stated that the whole idea is flexible and this doesn't necessarily have to be implemented (I know, I really shouldn't have to say that, but pedantry seems to be quite a popular activity here).
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That said, I'm not claiming to be any form of creative genius, so someone else might come up with a way to make it work in a City Zone. I just doubt anything that work work would satisfy your desires.
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I don't understand this. Does it mean anything? Of course, there will always be room for improvement, if that's what you're implying.
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I don't actually believe NCNC are likely to create another PvP Zone, but Cooperative Zones seem to be flavour of the month.
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I agree, though this disappoints me somewhat I can understand the neccessity for maximising the impact of their content patches.
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Mission Architect 54161 - Michael Mundano, Megan Malloney and the Secret Senate.
Mission Architect 91838 - Constantinople Jones' Family Secret. A One Mission Story arc.
I'd like the idea of it happening in hazard zones that are at present barely used. during the reconstruction time it could have friendly workmen and scaffold all over the place, which any invading villains, if the idea was implemented, could smash.
if heroes succeeded in driving away the attackers the construction could be completed ok, and the zone would go kinda shiny and new and clean. full facilities like everywhere else. if the bad guys win, the zone is trashed, like boomtown is now, with enemies all over and no shops or anything. any leveling contacts could be placed near the entrance and warn anyone entering that there is a high risk of attack in the area. something like that. not sure how easy this would be to implement, but it'd be a cool idea for at least one zone.
enemies could be actual player controlled villains or some outside threat like the rikti/5th column/COT or whatever. if this was the case it could be made a co-op zone, with the idea that arachnos wants something in the zone, and cannot have too many heroes drawn there by the other enemy group causing trouble.
or it could be some kind of giant monster, and the bad guys could be there for a bounty that recluse has put out on it? thinking boomtown with a giant reptile or alien thing causing mass carnage and collateral damage. "cloverzilla"?
@craggy see me on Union for TFs, SFs (please!) or just some good ol fashioned teaming.
Okay...
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The Rikti invasions are a work of genius and are used sparingly they are fine, particularly since players aren't usually in the city zones doing the PvE levelling you mention, rather they are in the instances.
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Over the weekend of Rikti raids they had recently, raids disrupted my normal PvE activities in PI at least twice. Now, of course, that's a special weekend of heavy raids, so a little unusual. Except that I also had disruption from them the weekend after when there was no special event, just a lot of people doing the mission in the RWZ.
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Although I mentioned a possible "denial of service" mechanic, I've also stated that the whole idea is flexible and this doesn't necessarily have to be implemented
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Well then, fine. If there is no disruption to services then there's no objection to a cosmetic change to the way the zone looks. Personally, I don't see the point, but if that's what you want, sure.
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I don't understand this. Does it mean anything? Of course, there will always be room for improvement, if that's what you're implying.
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What it meant was that I have suggested at least one mechanism which meets all your requirements for destruction, repeatability and loss of services in a zone, but you want it in a City Zone, so it's not good enough. Apparently, what you want is the ability to have a city zone trashed and aren't interested in the other aspects of the concept, so I was wrong.
I repeat: your original idea is great for 'rebuilding' a Hazard Zone. I don't know why you feel it must be a City Zone that this is done to, but if you're happy that most of your idea is tossed out to make a cosmetic change only, well then I haven't any practical objection.
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I agree, though this disappoints me somewhat
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Doesn't dissapoint me. 
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
We all know the zones, some are "Devastated" (the Hazard zones). Some are "Normal", like Atlas Park. Faultline is in a state of semi-reconstuction.
In Recluse's Victory we see the zone change between several states, depending on how well the heroes/villains are doing.
I'd suggest that ALL zones are given this treatment. If the players don't repel a Rikti Invasion, then the zone goes into "Devastated" mode for a time, then into "Reconstruction" before returning back to "Normal". During "Devastated" mode, the zone might have less facilities available, in order to give players some incentive.
This gives some impetus to polish up the Hazard Zones, and give them some meaning.
The different zones could have different invasions, e.g. Zombies could be a more regular occurrance in Dark Astoria.
Please fight My Brute: http://2hero.mybrute.com
Mission Architect 54161 - Michael Mundano, Megan Malloney and the Secret Senate.
Mission Architect 91838 - Constantinople Jones' Family Secret. A One Mission Story arc.