Lore Question [Some Spoilers]
By
bluedarky,
Posted on: 2008-08-04 23:47 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
[ QUOTE ]
Maiden Justice, as we know, is Lord Recluse's sister, who married Statesman and is the mother and grandmother of Miss and Ms Liberty. (Also, is Ms. Liberty Megan Duncan or Jessica Cole? After all, why would she have the same surname as her grandfather, unless Miss Liberty married someone also named Cole. No jokes about Tyrant/Dominatrix, please. 
Her name comes up as Jessica in the City of heroes comic.)
[/ QUOTE ]
Ouroboros is bound to have a time-travelling answer to this...
Can't recall if Ms Liberty's real name is public knowledge - if so it could make sense to keep with Cole for the purposes of a publicly recognised dynasty.
[ QUOTE ]
"By the way... my sister sends her regards."
[/ QUOTE ]
Always taken that as a dig at States and acknowledgement of MJ#s death. Telling this to States could be seen as a verbal attack to psyche him out (sort of immortal survivor-guilt?) and the CoX world has enough mystics that contact the dead... I'm sure it wouldn't do States' equilibrium any good to even imagine that his beloved is not in a state of rest but being hassled by LR and his cronies.
It's possibly even a veiled threat - 'my people have been in touch with MJ, we can still get at her so back off for her sake'. I find it helps this scenario to imagine LR sicking the cenobites/LAment configuration on her at this point... Even whilst dead she's not necessarily beyond suffering.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
Looks like a thinly vieled threat that Stephan has or can gain access to Monica's soul, or even something to throw Marcus off balance.
As for Ms Liberty's name, that's a source of debate, it's cited as Jessica in the books, and Megan in the comics. We've yet to gain offical confirmation as far as which one's correct.
Also Monica is Alexis Cole's (Miss Liberty) mother, not grandmother
EDIT: Confused Ms Liberty with her mother.
Recluse is an Incarnate of Tartarus, which is essentially Hell. There's no threat there, Recluse would simply use such leverage right away, he's just pointing out she's dead and burning.
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
Except that she's probably not in hell.
Technically it translates as Underrealm/Underworld which is where all souls go except those selected to celebrate with/entertain the gods.
[ QUOTE ]
Technically it translates as Underrealm/Underworld which is where all souls go except those selected to celebrate with/entertain the gods.
[/ QUOTE ]
Tartarus was the lowest point of Hades and was meant as a place of punishment, normally by some sort of cruel task e.g. Tantalus and his perpetually out of reach tree and lake. Unless the dead had done something nasty that deserved punishment, they'd be somewhere in the upper realms relaxing, with no knowledge of their former lives after drinking from the waters of the Lethe(sp?).
So yes, LR working as an incarnation of Tartarus would appear to be goading States in this circumstance as it hints that Monica is in his realm, rather than in the more peaceful one. Clever that LR.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
[ QUOTE ]
Except that she's probably not in hell.
[/ QUOTE ]
So? He's an afterlife God. It's little more than a brute force "Haha! Your sisters dead!" taunt when boiled down. And who wants the freaking lord of afterlife suffering and pain and all that being able to chat to their dead loved ones?
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
As Dante says, he's specifically the afterlife god of the place sinners are sent to. Mentions of the name in biblical texts are usually translated as 'hell'. It's a nastier taunt than just 'your wife is toast', he's saying 'your wife is toast and her soul is being eternally tormented for her sins.'
Taunt is likely all it is, however.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
[ QUOTE ]
It's little more than a brute force "Haha! Your sisters dead!" taunt when boiled down.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually it's a "Haha! Your wife's dead!" taunt.
Maiden Justice was Monica Cole nee Richter - Stefan Richters (aka Lord Recluse) sister who married Marcus Cole (aka Statesman).
All covered in the Web of Arachnos.
I think I got the name's right...
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
Thanks for all the help. Hopefully it (along with reading the comics) should help round the characters off to be more close to canon.
... Well, with the exception of giving Statesman a bit more of a personality than just 'Superman meets Cyclops'
[ QUOTE ]
... Well, with the exception of giving Statesman a bit more of a personality than just 'Superman meets Cyclops'
[/ QUOTE ]
You think he has more personality than that? Really? *shuffles off to try to find evidence of a personality in Statesman*
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
... Well, with the exception of giving Statesman a bit more of a personality than just 'Superman meets Cyclops'
[/ QUOTE ]
You think he has more personality than that? Really? *shuffles off to try to find evidence of a personality in Statesman*
[/ QUOTE ]
Nah, he's going to give him more personality. By actually giving him a personality
Defiant 50: Blonde Justice inv/ss; Lady Aminta emp/elec; Sierra Colt merc/traps; Tess LaCoyle elec/elec (blaster); Powerstorm elec/elec (brute);
Union 50: @Steel Dancer WP/DB; Blast Pulse Fire/Rad (corr); Bitter Twilight Earth/Psi (dom); Compassionate Emp/Psi;
Freedom 50: Incandescent Blaze ElecAm/Fire;
[ QUOTE ]
(Also, is Ms. Liberty Megan Duncan or Jessica Cole? After all, why would she have the same surname as her grandfather, unless Miss Liberty married someone also named Cole.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's only a problem if you assume that Miss Liberty took the same name as her husband, if she got married.
[url=http://vox-doom.deviantart.com]Take A Gander At This.[/url]
Good point Vox, it was just the presence of a different surname that got me wondering.
And Birdy: Artistic license.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's little more than a brute force "Haha! Your sisters dead!" taunt when boiled down.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually it's a "Haha! Your wife's dead!" taunt.
Maiden Justice was Monica Cole nee Richter - Stefan Richters (aka Lord Recluse) sister who married Marcus Cole (aka Statesman).
All covered in the Web of Arachnos.
I think I got the name's right...
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, that's how I always understood it - Recluse is taunting him that Monica is dead because Statesman, being immortal, will outlive all of his loved ones - whereas Recluse no longer places any value on such sentiment.
As for the Megan/Jessica mix-up, there's still no definitive explanation for the mix-up between novels, comics, in-game and official websites - although the dev Manticore did state explicitly on the US forums that her name is Megan. But, as ParagonWiki says:
[ QUOTE ]
Ms. Liberty's real name has been in question recently. In the GameSpy preview that contains Ms. Liberty's background that was published a month and a half before the game's release, her first name is given as "Jessica," and the original Miss Liberty is identified as her grandmother, not her mother. An official correction has been made on the official CoH forums by Manticore, one of the game designers who is responsible for maintaining game story continuity.[1] However, in the City of Heroes novel, Freedom Phalanx, she is once again named Jessica Cole, and the continuity has yet to be addressed. In addition, the UK CoH website also has her name listed as Jessica Duncan.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's about as definitive as you're going to get at the moment. Personally I'd go with Megan simply because in-game sources support that.
Nice minion names by the way.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's little more than a brute force "Haha! Your sisters dead!" taunt when boiled down.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually it's a "Haha! Your wife's dead!" taunt.
Maiden Justice was Monica Cole nee Richter - Stefan Richters (aka Lord Recluse) sister who married Marcus Cole (aka Statesman).
All covered in the Web of Arachnos.
I think I got the name's right...
[/ QUOTE ]
You forgot to mention that she died, presumably of cancer (I can find references to some illness in the book but no clear answers, someone correct me if I'm wrong), age 76 approximately 2 days before the forming of the current Freedom Phalanx.
EDIT:Just to mention that this bit was covered in The Freedom Phalanx
Mentions for both books in one thread. 
Of course recluse being a evil mastermind and head of a more than likely unethical criminal organisation i wouldn't put it pats him to have "saved" his sister.
Maybe she's now Regent Korol
Okay, in a break from norms I've been writing some City of Heroes fanfiction to try and break writers block. (As in, using established characters in canon instead of player characters.)
Her name comes up as Jessica in the City of heroes comic.)
I've come across an odd point though in considering dialogue regarding Maiden Justice.
Maiden Justice, as we know, is Lord Recluse's sister, who married Statesman and is the mother and grandmother of Miss and Ms Liberty. (Also, is Ms. Liberty Megan Duncan or Jessica Cole? After all, why would she have the same surname as her grandfather, unless Miss Liberty married someone also named Cole. No jokes about Tyrant/Dominatrix, please.
Now, in the novel Web of Arachnos, it mentions that Maiden Justice dies aged 76. But in City of Heroes Volume 2 Issue 3 of the comic, As Lord Recluse retreats back to the Rogue Isles he makes this comment:
"By the way... my sister sends her regards."
Is this a cruel jab at Statesman being immortal, a reference that she hasn't died, or a reference that she hasn't died even though people thinks she has.
... Or, uh, Lord Recluse reclaimed her body for some nefarious purpose.
SUPPORT - IT'S NOT JUST A GROUPING OF ATs
-
More Than a Game
-