When I played my TA I noticed Acid Arrow and dispersion arrow the most, using Glue arrow to keep foes in there. Combined it gives you a great AoE -res and foes should fall much faster. So to me those were my key powers
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
[ QUOTE ]
I have a TA/Archery at level 31, is there any reason to keep playing that except for the (Oil Slick/Burning Arrow/Rain of Arrows) combo?
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You have that combo? I don't have time for it personally.
Groups can die quicker with a TA and you probably won't need all your debuffs down on every group in some teams. The moving out of debuffs bit, are you debuffing early? Sometimes the point at which a TA decides to debuff at is not at the favoured fight point, us Tanks have all gone to move a group from a dangerous ambush point only to find them slowed or whatever.
It doesn't matter what type of defender you are there will be teams who'd play in a way that act against what it is your able to do for them, you can offer them almost no chance of getting hit as a rad but then some scrapper keeps dropping the anchor first like its gonna explode. There are people who don't, can one find them though? They are scarce but there are people who might team with your TA and would not say "and now we need to get a healer". Also be careful on what's noticeable and whats not, too many defenders in the team or controllers can, but for damage cancel each other out for what's needed. You should notice your debuffs more when your the only defender in the team. People will notice your limitations and maybe adapt by learning to make all the right moves in order for you to help them back.
I don't team with people who play in a way that acts against how my powers work or offer nothing to protect me in turn with my very own survivability. I expect team work.
We all have many slots so deleting isn't necessarily worth it so at the very worst you can wait for a player(s) to come along who do play in those ways that makes a TA shine a lot more. I fell back on old time friends who have played with one of my previous defenders.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
The trouble I see as a TA/Archey is the same as I had with my /Devices blaster, to shine even a little bit you need for the fight to be stationary.
It's actully worse for the TA since you have to fire all your arrows (like 6 powers or so) before the spawn has been defeated. You can't set it up in advance, so the tank can pull into it since most of the powers are targeted stationary AoEs.
Of course if I play with my friends, they will try to accomodate me which only make it feel worse, since they are not playing their best so I can be useful.
I was really hopeing someone here could tell me how to play a TA defender as a defender not a damage dealer, which I guess Shannon tried but all you said (or at least all I read) was to skip all teams that didn't allow you do play a defender. Which isn't at all what I was looking for. I want to play a TA-defender that any team would enjoy as an asset not suffer as a liabilty. I guess that won't happen until TA gets a major rewamp.
If the powers had worked as Lingering Effects from Radiation it would work much better. Then I can keep shooting at people and it doesn't matter if they move around afterwards.
Black Light, Electricity/Devices Blaster at Union
White Knight, Illusion/Radiation Controller at Union
Obscurum est absentis lux lucis. Ego sum lux lucis!
I tend to look for a journey, I really would despise getting up a TA in teams that played in a way that I couldn't benefit them but an empath does. The first few levels are hard for a TA to bring a lot although there is for me a noticeable difference to what a group can do under debuffs compared to undebuffed. I loved teaming with kinetics, stormies, in fact a TA teamed with another defender should be great really but its not how I wanted to be..feeling like a secondary defender so i waited for the right people to come along whereby I can play and they can play and another defender wouldn't be searched for. TA isn't weak and in bad need for a revamp, it's just people aren't used to one and in their defense some peoples TAs scare me as much as mine (staminaless) might other peoples.
TA doesn't need a revamp. If you consider how often, many people seem to play. They play one way and thats it. Which is pants because what you can get away with being supported by one type of defender may not be what you can get away with doing for another. I look at my TA and think yeah I need to tank like this to get the most from her powers. I doubt I'd be able to tank well for every TA because of how they use their powers ie before aggro is consolidated or whilst mobs are spread but as an Invuln I would say be more than happy to see flash arrow used before I enter. Pull tight so that not only can I effectively end up eluded but you don't get aggro because your aoes can get so big my gauntlet aoes don't quite reach that far and then you lay your debuffs down. With plus perception I tend to try to pull groups away from each other and so the flash arrow would be for its unresistable to hit debuff rather than minus perception.
The fella who was one of my fave tanks for my empath, came to the server with another tank and became one of my fave tanks for my TA and stopping and waiting for him to come along was well worth it for me.
Sorry to keep mentioning tanks but I think they are so much better for TAs to team with especially herding ones.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I used to find this all the time but since the recharge and activation times buff to TA I find it much much better these days. Unless the fight is moving around WAY too much, the aoe on disruption arrow is large enough to cover pretty much everything. The slow on glue persists and spreads as long as the anchor lives (iirc - it's an odd way to have a power work i agree) and anything benefits from an acid arrow.
I'd say definately stick with it, my TA/Arch Blastfender is still one of my fave toons.
The only thing i'm REALLY REALLY REALLY still irritated about is oil slick not always lighting...it's not just random, sometimes it refuses to light at all in particular missions and for long stretches.
I miss him in the weeping of the rain;
I want him at the shrinking of the tide;
The old snows melt from every mountain-side,
And last year's leaves are smoke in every lane;
But last year's bitter loving must remain
~Edna St. Vincent Millay
I dont have experience ona defender, only on a /TA mastermind. IMO it could do with a little love, but play to its strengths...
TA is low endurance. Effectively meaning you save slots and can blast / use leadership pools. Compare it to Radiation for instance, which gobbles up blue stuff.
TA works when you are detoggled. Especially at high levels this is a big bonus. The rad defender gets mezzed, the debuffs drops, and the house of cards can all apart. Not such a problem for you.
TA is DAMAGE. Its actually less of a "defence debuff" set than a set that boosts your teams damage. TWO -res powers, a -def power, and the sick damage of oil slick arrow. Its the biggest "damage booster" set after Kinetics, and offers a lot more "protection" than kin.
TA is HUGE. With the exception of tangle, ice, and (to a degree) Acid arrow, TA is all about HUGE AOE. Its the most AoE of the lot. Hence, it works best in BIG teams. It dosent need technical herding or crowding (which to my mind is both slow and boring). TA is reliable.
Just my thoughts.
I would like to see Poison Gas Arrow get -regen debuff (since it is the weakest in the set, and TA really needs some love against AV's.... it'snot favoured on the hard TF's, and it should be on an even par), Perhaps boost the debuffs of entangle arrow and flash arrow (just generally too weak), but otherwise its a happy set!
When I say herding Cognito that also means tending. I use the dictionary term. Basically no debuffer wants to get too much aggro from laying down their debuffs and no team mate should want that neither. A held or defeated defender is no longer there making the whole team look good. AVs don't have enormous regen anymore making Rads more preference to add pace as the need for -regen is just to lower fight duration by adding pseudo dps.
A Tanker once in Granite against +4 enemies stood at a corner and taunted 5 mobs at range and figured it was a good time for me to use a debuff that hits the other 11 mobs as well.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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The slow on glue persists and spreads as long as the anchor lives (iirc - it's an odd way to have a power work i agree)
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The glue has no anchor, you only need a target but it is anchored to an area and will stay there, anyone effected by it should be effected by the slow for the duration you slot it for.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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[ QUOTE ]
The slow on glue persists and spreads as long as the anchor lives (iirc - it's an odd way to have a power work i agree)
[/ QUOTE ]
The glue has no anchor, you only need a target but it is anchored to an area and will stay there, anyone effected by it should be effected by the slow for the duration you slot it for.
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I'm pretty sure that new mobs entering the glue area can be affected by it only as long as the original target (anchor was a poor choice of word) is alive. Once he drops no new mobs will be affected. That's my understanding of it anyway.
I miss him in the weeping of the rain;
I want him at the shrinking of the tide;
The old snows melt from every mountain-side,
And last year's leaves are smoke in every lane;
But last year's bitter loving must remain
~Edna St. Vincent Millay
Sometimes I am sure from enough people telling me "something" which has been a mistake and sometimes I am sure from testing over a year ago, which can also be a mistake and so what I actually did was test this before I replied.
This is what I did, if you cared to repeat;
Glue Arrowed Nems, kill target, leave rest alive, pull more Nems to glue arrow area and watch them get slowed, wait for Glue effect to disappear and see for how much longer they are slowed for (which is what the slows enhancements do).
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I dont see the problem tbh. I have a archery/dev blaster at 42 and working on an TA/Ice defender atm.
All you need is a herding tank. Herd>kill?
If u arent getting off all your powers before the fight is over all to the better of the team surely?
Atm on my TA defebcer it is only 23 so I cant comment on further but i have found myself laying down immobs at the opener then if the fight is spread out I target bosses and Lt's to debuff and further immob them out of the fight. If they are all together I just let rip.
I know what u mean about it not being flashy or obvious but you do have an effect on the fight.
Same with my blaster, I move between AoE and single targets all the time depending on the pace of the fighting. I feel that I am contributing to the team beyond the satisfying moments of mobs huddled together with rain of arrows.
TA isnt perfect but is far from a bad set imo. Maybe if there was more green glowy flashy stuff going on it would seem better but imo would detract from one of the reasons I love archery sets.
Hi there,
I started playing my TA/A defender (not buying into that US meme thank you very much
) just before the double xp weekend just gone, and playing on and off he's currently at level 28.
From reading through the previous posts, I get the impression that you see most of the TA powers to be more locational than they really are.
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As soon as I have set up the debuff area, the fight moves away from it.
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The trouble I see as a TA/Archey is the same as I had with my /Devices blaster, to shine even a little bit you need for the fight to be stationary.
[/ QUOTE ]
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You can't set it up in advance, so the tank can pull into it since most of the powers are targeted stationary AoEs.
[/ QUOTE ]
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If the powers had worked as Lingering Effects from Radiation it would work much better. Then I can keep shooting at people and it doesn't matter if they move around afterwards.
[/ QUOTE ]
Looking at the powers in Trick Arrow (details from Paragon Wiki)
Entangling Arrow - Foe: Immobilize, -Recharge, -Fly, Slow
So it's a single target immob. Primarily control with debuffing secondary effects.
Flash Arrow - (Targeted Area of Effect) -Accuracy, -Perception
I haven't taken this so I won't comment on it.
Glue Arrow - (Targeted Area of Effect) -Speed, -Recharge, -Fly
This slows the movement and recharge of mobs in the AoE when activated, and then leaves a slow patch behind. It slows any mobs that enter the patch while it lasts.
Ice Arrow - Foe: Hold, -Speed, -Recharge
A single target hold. Primarily control with debuffing secondary effects.
Poison Gas Arrow - (Targeted Area of Effect) -Damage, Sleep
Targeted AoE, debuffs those in the AoE. Despite leaving a visual effect behind, this only affects mobs hit when the power is first activated.
Acid Arrow - (Targeted Area of Effect) Minor Damage over Time(Toxic), -Resistance(All), -Defense
Targeted AoE, debuffs mobs in the Aoe. Again this only affects mobs initially hit by the power.
Disruption Arrow - (Location Area of Effect) -Resistance(All)
Location AoE. Debuffs mobs that stay in the AoE.
Oil Slick Arrow - (Location Area of Effect) Knockdown, -Speed, -Defense, +Special
Location AoE. Debuffs mobs that stay in the AoE.
EMP Arrow - (Targeted Area of Effect) Foe: Hold, -Regen, -Endurance, Special Damage vs Robots; Self: -Recovery
I don't have this yet so I won't comment on it.
So two powers (Disruption & Oil) require the mobs to be in the ongoing area of effect to be debuffed. For the remaining
powers, once the mob is affected by the inital cast of the power, it doesn't matter where they are. Think of glue leaving a slow patch as a bonus.
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So if someone here could tell me how to play a TA/Archery who is not a damage dealer mainly, but a defender, I might actually play it again.
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I was really hopeing someone here could tell me how to play a TA defender as a defender not a damage dealer,
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I want to play a TA-defender that any team would enjoy as an asset not suffer as a liabilty.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd love to know what you think a Defender is, and what role they should perform on a team. Defenders have a blasting secondary, why can't they be damage dealers?
A Trick Arrow Defender de-buffs foes. They reduce thier defences and resistance (acid, disruption, oil slick), making them easier to "arrest". They reduce the damage that they can deal (poison gas), keeping the team fighting longer. They slow the foes (glue, entangling, ice) making them attack less, keeping them from closing to melee with the results of keeping the team fighting longer. And then there's Oil Slick, which does so much stuff that I'm still figuring out how best to use it .
I have never felt a liability, and I don't see that changing any time soon.
I've played a variety of Defenders to varying degrees of success, loved my Storm, hated Kinetics. So I think I prefer
debuffing and damage rather than buffing and healing. Maybe de-buffing and damage just arent for you.
By the way, if I've got the wrong idea about any of these points, please let me know .
Cheers,
Mike.
I'm just at lvl 39 with my TA/A Def. buhbuhbuhbuba I'm lovin' it.
Depending on size and relative strength of the mob (and what they're armed with and who I'm teaming with) I'll fire off a couple of debuffs. Generally start with Glue or Flash arrows. Freak them out a bit. If there's a significant threat there, I'll pop em with an Acid or Ice, or hell, usually both.
Lower level mobs sometimes get an Explosive arrow straight off, to toss them up in the air and let some serious damage dealers get a few shots in. Was doing this today and didn't get much of a chance to do any more debuffs before everyone was dead. On their side, not my team. 
Obviously the Oil Slick/Fire/Rain of Arrows is great, but if the battle's a bit hectic it can be difficult to fire off (as I found out a few hours ago with a bunch of WS pets getting in my way as I tried to aim) so sometimes it's just worth it to fire off as many of the less fun things as possible.
Poison Gas is the only one I have any real issues with, but that's mainly from the anchor dying all the time. If there's a boss or something in the group I'll usually try and get them with Gas early, but often, because I'm freezing or acid'ing them, they die quicker.
EMP arrow is good on occasion, but no match for the AOE trio above. I use it against robots, or when there's nothing else charged.
The sight of a bunch of enemies falling on their [censored], then getting set on fire and finally getting a huge load of arrows dropping on them is great. The reverse waterfall of numbers is hilarious and throw in a few more flaming arrows or that multi-shot one and it's going to take out a few. fire a glue afterwards and you can keep the survivors stuck, long enough to charge up some of the secondary attacks again and finish them off.
Alternatively, if you're soloing, Glue and Ice arrows are very much your friends.As are quick reflexes to help with the frequent tactical withdrawals.
@craggy see me on Union for TFs, SFs (please!) or just some good ol fashioned teaming.
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...Poison Gas is the only one I have any real issues with, but that's mainly from the anchor dying all the time. If there's a boss or something in the group I'll usually try and get them with Gas early, but often, because I'm freezing or acid'ing them, they die quicker...
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm... maybe I've misunderstood what you were trying to say, but Poison Gas Arrow is not an anchored debuff, it's fire-and-forget just like Acid; not only that, the -dmg debuff is also auto-hit...
I have a lvl 50 TA/A and actually is one of the toons I enjoy the most! Ok, they do not buff or heal teammates, but the effect of their debuffs on foes are devastating! I do not consider TA as a pure defender powerset, but more as a Defender/Controller/Blaster hybrid. It is not necessary to say how great OSA or RoA are, but other powers like disruption arrow, glue arrow or Acid arrow are also great besides the fact that their cost is minimal, their recharge is fast and they stack!!! And EMP Arrow... It's just amazing!! Someone said that EMP Pulse is the best AoE hold in game (besides Volcanic gases), well then here you have the best AoE hold but Targetede instead of PAoE, so much more better!!! By the way, got also a 50 Rad and except for accelerate metabolism and the AoE Heal, TA is much more useful... RAD shines against AV/EB and GM and TA against Big mobs (have you ever tryed to run a farm miss with a fire/kin? The combo is... Mass Destruction Team!!!) and big mobs are much more common in game than AVs! Do not get me wrong, I love Rad, it was the first powerset I played and i enjoy it and i will not dare to say which AT is better than another, but with all the anchors well known problems (even though you use a bid the anchor usually is killed the first)as per my expierence i think that click and forget powers are more useful than anchor/toggled ones.
Maybe TA is not the typical Defender but in my oppinion is one of the most enjoyable to play! Much more than just healing or buffing your teammates every time they say "SB please" or the AoE buff recharges...
Well of course sometimes i have found ppl who has kicked me form teams when they realised I was TA, saying TA was completelly unuseless as a fender... But these are the same n00bs tham cosider all defenders as healers.
I got a 47 TA/A defender. She has her ups and downs.
My biggest grief i have with the set combo is that it's very vulnverable to teams which have knockback powers. With a skilled tank who herds up well, trick arrows is a devstating powerset, but as soon they scattered it becomes weak.
The powers also take awhile to set off, i usually only get the chance to use one debuff per mob before they all die. Which in a damage heavy team will make the set pretty unfun to play.
But at the same time, alot of powers in the set are really nice.
Flash arrow is a nice blind and tohit debuff power, long range and no aggro unless you put a proc in it.
Glue arrow is a nice slow, but has limited range.
Oil Slick is simply <3 <3 <3. Best power in the set by far, just sucks it works about half the time for some reason.
EMP Arrow is a pretty nice hold power, targetted aoe and bonus dmg on robots. Just takes forever to recharge.
Ice arrow is a nice isngle target hold, i took the hold from psychic ancillary and two hold is a nice bonus.
Acid arrow is a sweet power, just wish it had bigger radius. resistance and defense debuff.
Dispersion arrow is a nice location based resistance debuff. stacks nicely with acid arrow.
Poison Gas arrow is pretty nice too, the choke effect doesn't happen often, but the damage reduction on them is nice, specially vs cimeroran traitors, since they do so much dmg
I really like Trick Arrows, but in alot of teams i feel useless, which takes alot of fun out of the char. Most fun was when i played her in an all defender TF.
You are right neko, Knockbacks decreases effectivity of Ta quite a lot, but the same happens with all AoE based AT (rads Fire earth trollers and Dark looses efectivity when foes spread)... And concerning heavy damage teams, frankly speaking the only power for me that from time to time is shooted for nothing is rain of arrows, I hate the extremely long activation...
Concerning EMP arrow, I have focused my IOs sets for +rech red and +acc bonus and having hasten on auto, it recharges way much faster than my troller's volcanic gases... I alway have to eat a blue tab afterwards...
i personally wnet for Ice and stun arrows which allow me to soloing easily (much more than with my rad)... I went for Power mastery and my optimal combo is: Power Build up + Flash arrow + EMP Arrow (1-2 blue tabs) + OSA + Fire arrow + Disruption + Acid + Sit down and watch them burn (or Freeze a Hard foe). Of course if OSA burns! this is the worst point...OSA has been bugged from the beginning...It does not burn for whole missions no mater which are the circumnstaces!!! It's trully frustating!
Was playing on a TF with my TA/pointy sticks who seemed to take great pleasure in using telekinesis to move the mobs out of my dispersion arrow and burning oil lsick with amazing regularity. Sure the mobs were held but scattered all over the place in every corner rather in a nice tight bunch.
Defiant 50's
Many and varied!
@Miss Chief
In every team there is always someone negating someone else. Players tend to understand from little to not everything about their own sets, let alone other peoples. I am not totally innocent but noticing things like that in every team makes me not as bad I guess. The other thing is some people have powers they could use on people, but they don't, the power just sits in the tray, I have no idea what "right time" they're waiting for as "the right times" was pretty self evidently always there. Even as my scrapper I still see buffs on other people in the team and its amazing how many people would forget to buff.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Not sure if everyones had the same experience with TA but for me it's been an enjoyable one, sure the early levels sucked but when past that it becomes really fun.
TA is more active than some defender sets i've played with while i enjoy my empath the only time were it's "balls to the wall" is on a MoSTF most other times it's the usual pattern of heal/buff/heal/buff/rez/buff/heal/buff/heal
Heroes: Phobos-, Protector-Bot, Shadow of Ra, Bionic Eye, Entropic Chaos, Strike-Freedom.
Villains: Necron Phobos, Khorne-Berzerker, Full Metal Panic, Smasher Devourer, Degrees Kelvin.
Co-Leader of The Echelon
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Phobos is correct. When I used to run herostats by far the longest list of powers waiting to recharge was always on my TA. I got the list to stretch halfway down the screen once. After that I stopped using it cos it took up too much space! When I sometimes play my FF Defender on union I still use it, otherwise I'd forget to buff everyone!
Defiant 50's
Many and varied!
@Miss Chief
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Phobos is correct. When I used to run herostats by far the longest list of powers waiting to recharge was always on my TA. I got the list to stretch halfway down the screen once. After that I stopped using it cos it took up too much space! When I sometimes play my FF Defender on union I still use it, otherwise I'd forget to buff everyone!
[/ QUOTE ]
You can set herostats to monitor or ignore whichever powers you want. It's under Hero Options -> Timers.
Octavian Vanguard
@ohmsEU and @ohms 2
Badging character: Bimble on the Union server, Badgehunter.com and City Info Tracker.
I have a TA/Archery at level 31, is there any reason to keep playing that except for the (Oil Slick/Burning Arrow/Rain of Arrows) combo?
No one in a team ever seem to notice the debuffs (not even me, except for the FX). As soon as I have set up the debuff area, the fight moves away from it. It feels a bit like my /Devices blaster, you need time to set to be useful and somewhere around 30-40 teams never need to stop.
So if someone here could tell me how to play a TA/Archery who is not a damage dealer mainly, but a defender, I might actually play it again.
Black Light, Electricity/Devices Blaster at Union
White Knight, Illusion/Radiation Controller at Union
Obscurum est absentis lux lucis. Ego sum lux lucis!