[ QUOTE ]
If they can be beaten, then how are they a greater threat? While the other side of the pond can beat us, why can't the greater threats? Simple. That's because they're not greater threats. It's a little lie to convince you that they are stronger.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are failing to understand the laws of narrative fiction. Of course the overwhelming threat will be beaten. Unlike real life, in storyland, if there is a single one legged 12 year old standing against the entire combined might of the universe, then betting on the universe would be a bad idea. I'm betting against the Daleks tomorrow.
In the fiction of the game, it is always your character who makes the difference, if your character hadden't been there, all would have been lost. This is true for every character, hero or villain.
I really should do something about this signature.
[ QUOTE ]
How about a villain-esque co-op zone where the heroes have to help do "bad things" for a change? I can't think why at the mo, but I'm sure someone here can...
[/ QUOTE ]
Well of the Furies trial. Your objective is to become more powerful (than you can possibly imagine, natch). Not exactly a purely heroic motive.
I really should do something about this signature.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If they can be beaten, then how are they a greater threat? While the other side of the pond can beat us, why can't the greater threats? Simple. That's because they're not greater threats. It's a little lie to convince you that they are stronger.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are failing to understand the laws of narrative fiction. Of course the overwhelming threat will be beaten. Unlike real life, in storyland, if there is a single one legged 12 year old standing against the entire combined might of the universe, then betting on the universe would be a bad idea. I'm betting against the Daleks tomorrow.
In the fiction of the game, it is always your character who makes the difference, if your character hadden't been there, all would have been lost. This is true for every character, hero or villain.
[/ QUOTE ]
That 12 year old must be stronger then.
If they can beat them, they are stronger than them. Simple as that.
Nope, that's the real world.
In fiction, the weaker force defeats the stronger.
Strong guy beats weak guy = no story
Weak guy beats strong guy, you have a story.
I really should do something about this signature.
[ QUOTE ]
Nope, that's the real world.
In fiction, the weaker force defeats the stronger.
Strong guy beats weak guy = no story
Weak guy beats strong guy, you have a story.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am really sick of 'fairytale' endings when weak beats strong. Why can't strong beat weak? Aren't they stronger?
If NC are trying to make this game as real as possible, then they should scrap fiction endings and go for the real world ending.
Also another note, not quoting to PRAF only though.
I would rather see more money spent on the game for more useful features. Improving the PvP balance, for example. I remember TG saying that he would leave if the PvP wasn't improved in I13, and others said it as well. We don't want all the money spent on co-op zones. Making new co-op zones time again won't do any good. They need to take a break. I wouldn't mind for just 1 issue. It's getting on my nerves.
[ QUOTE ]
I am really sick of 'fairytale' endings when weak beats strong. Why can't strong beat weak? Aren't they stronger?
If NC are trying to make this game as real as possible, then they should scrap fiction endings and go for the real world ending.
Also another note, not quoting to PRAF only though.
I would rather see more money spent on the game for more useful features. Improving the PvP balance, for example. I remember TG saying that he would leave if the PvP wasn't improved in I13, and others said it as well. We don't want all the money spent on co-op zones. Making new co-op zones time again won't do any good. They need to take a break. I wouldn't mind for just 1 issue. It's getting on my nerves.
[/ QUOTE ]
One: I13 is meant to be massive, so who knows what balancing is in there.
Two: more content is always good since they have a much better methodology now for Zone, and as much as i would have like them to strip back CoH and redo the mission structure more like CoV, and add some villain only zones ( i think you want 2 -3 zones for each 10 level bracket, except the early, were 2 is more than enough, but should be ten levels, not 5) what ever we get isn't likely to be dull.
Three: No no no no no no, if we wanted real word, we would go in to the real world, the entire point is that in this world we can do things we never could in real life.
Four: Coherence, for [censored] sake. you give dribbling loonies a bad name.
[ QUOTE ]
If NC are trying to make this game as real as possible, then they should scrap fiction endings and go for the real world ending.
[/ QUOTE ]
They're trying to make this superhero game as real as possible? Right, better not use Fly or Teleport, or the laws of physics will get me.
And suppose you get your grand vision, where you end up triumphing over all good... erm, then what? The problem with a villain triumphing is that it tends to end the story for everyone.
I've never seen any villains triumph in such a definitive way in DC/Marvel. Sure, the little things (ahem) - the death of a hero, the loss of a partner. But actually becoming SUPREME RULER OF THE UNIVERSE? Even the Elseworlds have the heroes win or at least move the universe in the right direction.
Villains can't ever win. There's probably a moral lesson there somewhat, but I lost it in trying to guess what your point was 
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If NC are trying to make this game as real as possible, then they should scrap fiction endings and go for the real world ending.
[/ QUOTE ]
They're trying to make this superhero game as real as possible? Right, better not use Fly or Teleport, or the laws of physics will get me.
And suppose you get your grand vision, where you end up triumphing over all good... erm, then what? The problem with a villain triumphing is that it tends to end the story for everyone.
I've never seen any villains triumph in such a definitive way in DC/Marvel. Sure, the little things (ahem) - the death of a hero, the loss of a partner. But actually becoming SUPREME RULER OF THE UNIVERSE? Even the Elseworlds have the heroes win or at least move the universe in the right direction.
Villains can't ever win. There's probably a moral lesson there somewhat, but I lost it in trying to guess what your point was
[/ QUOTE ]
I said villians could win, but not on a grand scale. Sure, Rikti could wipe out 5% of the superpowered population, so they've won that, but not on that scale.
Also, when I said real, I meant except the powers.
I think you've got a quandry - what you want versus what the developers can provide.
Do they balance co-op zones against the need for villains to be villainous? Do they provide only a villain side zone or a hero side zone? I doubt it.
I think you're asking for too much here. Hopefully, you'll find a way to enjoy the co-op zones. Do what I do - just treat them as if their regular zones - or, in the case of my latest character, have them be an undercover villain, who regains their memories whenever they're in a co-op zone, so that they actually feel like helping. (It's more of a vague thing than a detailed plot though 
)
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
[ QUOTE ]
I think you're missing a very important point, Aardvark, PRAF, LostNinja and Pointless. If they can be beaten, then how are they a greater threat? While the other side of the pond can beat us, why can't the greater threats? Simple. That's because they're not greater threats. It's a little lie to convince you that they are stronger.
[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.cityofheroes.com/gameinfo..._invasion.html
Read it, last time the Rikti came THEY WERE WINNING UNTIL OMEGA TEAMS SACRIFICE!
They came in advance, had portals all over the world and managed to reduce the worlds greatest hero teams to a handful of heroes all over the world.
They destroyed 90% of the worlds govermental infrascrutcer including the UN building in New York.
And (Quoted from page): [ QUOTE ]
In one afternoon they destroyed buildings belonging to the Freedom Phalanx, the Midnight Squad, and the Dawn Patrol, killing scores of heroes in the process. The Rikti took their heaviest casualties during this engagement, but they must have thought it was worth it because they did the same thing again the next day. And the day after that. In one week they lost over 10,000 soldiers, killed close to 200 heroes and utterly decimated all of Paragon City's major hero organizations.
[/ QUOTE ]
IIRC, after I11 was out you complained about the Rikti then saying that they weren't big enough to unite the heroes and villains and we needed something along the lines of Galactus ect.
Your quote above is about how we can beat the Rikti back now, so they aren't a big enough threat.
The heroes in the Marvel universe can beat Galactus back without the villains help and have done so.
The premise for your arguements is flawed IM, you would rather the devs concentrate on a zone for heroes or vice versa, if they made two seperate zones it would up dev time and we'd only get one, maybe two Issues a year, and don't forget that some of the playerbase can only or choose to access one side only.
You're saying that they should alienate these people, even if it is just for one Issue, they discovered in the past in I6, I7 and I8 that this annoys the playerbase and don't want to do that again. To do so now could spell death for the game.
[ QUOTE ]
I am really sick of 'fairytale' endings when weak beats strong. Why can't strong beat weak?
[/ QUOTE ]
Okay. Nemesis deletes all your characters from the Space time continuum. Bye bye.
I really should do something about this signature.
[ QUOTE ]
Making new co-op zones time again won't do any good. They need to take a break. I wouldn't mind for just 1 issue. It's getting on my nerves.
[/ QUOTE ]
Please tell me, since I6, how many co-op zones have been added to the game, which issues, and whether there have been gaps before?
I12: Cimerora
I11: None
I10: Rikti War Zone
I9: None
I8: Umm, None
I7: No, wait... none
I6: Pocket D
Yeah, we're being overloaded. /sarcasm
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise 
; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am really sick of 'fairytale' endings when weak beats strong. Why can't strong beat weak?
[/ QUOTE ]
Okay. Nemesis deletes all your characters from the Space time continuum. Bye bye.
[/ QUOTE ]/thread
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am really sick of 'fairytale' endings when weak beats strong. Why can't strong beat weak?
[/ QUOTE ]
Okay. Nemesis deletes all your characters from the Space time continuum. Bye bye.
[/ QUOTE ]/thread
[/ QUOTE ]
@MidnightGuard - on Union you may know me as:
Mr. Vile - Electroman X - Zenodorus - Battler
Naga Knight - Stinkspitter
[ QUOTE ]
OK, I'm tired of having every issue a new co-op zone. It might just be me, but it's kinda annoying that the game is no longer becoming individual. We should not be spending lots of time working with the other side, I am not saying co-op is bad, it is just becoming overused.
So please take a few issues' break, NC. Most MMOs don't have co-op at all. If people really want to spend time with the other side, why don't they merge the games?
I am sorry for my little rave, but it's getting annoying now.
[/ QUOTE ]
You can exclude the other side from your teams in co-op zones if you don't trust them
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
[ QUOTE ]
How about a villain-esque co-op zone where the heroes have to help do "bad things" for a change? I can't think why at the mo, but I'm sure someone here can...
[/ QUOTE ]
That would be a no-no
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you're missing a very important point, Aardvark, PRAF, LostNinja and Pointless. If they can be beaten, then how are they a greater threat? While the other side of the pond can beat us, why can't the greater threats? Simple. That's because they're not greater threats. It's a little lie to convince you that they are stronger.
[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.cityofheroes.com/gameinfo..._invasion.html
Read it, last time the Rikti came THEY WERE WINNING UNTIL OMEGA TEAMS SACRIFICE!
They came in advance, had portals all over the world and managed to reduce the worlds greatest hero teams to a handful of heroes all over the world.
They destroyed 90% of the worlds govermental infrascrutcer including the UN building in New York.
And (Quoted from page): [ QUOTE ]
In one afternoon they destroyed buildings belonging to the Freedom Phalanx, the Midnight Squad, and the Dawn Patrol, killing scores of heroes in the process. The Rikti took their heaviest casualties during this engagement, but they must have thought it was worth it because they did the same thing again the next day. And the day after that. In one week they lost over 10,000 soldiers, killed close to 200 heroes and utterly decimated all of Paragon City's major hero organizations.
[/ QUOTE ]
IIRC, after I11 was out you complained about the Rikti then saying that they weren't big enough to unite the heroes and villains and we needed something along the lines of Galactus ect.
Your quote above is about how we can beat the Rikti back now, so they aren't a big enough threat.
The heroes in the Marvel universe can beat Galactus back without the villains help and have done so.
The premise for your arguements is flawed IM, you would rather the devs concentrate on a zone for heroes or vice versa, if they made two seperate zones it would up dev time and we'd only get one, maybe two Issues a year, and don't forget that some of the playerbase can only or choose to access one side only.
You're saying that they should alienate these people, even if it is just for one Issue, they discovered in the past in I6, I7 and I8 that this annoys the playerbase and don't want to do that again. To do so now could spell death for the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
So creating one side only content annoys the playerbase?
I must have missed a lot, then. Last time I checked most player's didn't have a problem with that.
[ QUOTE ]
So creating one side only content annoys the playerbase?
I must have missed a lot, then. Last time I checked most player's didn't have a problem with that.
[/ QUOTE ]
One or two Villain players were know to voice unrest from time to time at what they regarded as Hero-only Issuses, I think
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Making new co-op zones time again won't do any good. They need to take a break. I wouldn't mind for just 1 issue. It's getting on my nerves.
[/ QUOTE ]
Please tell me, since I6, how many co-op zones have been added to the game, which issues, and whether there have been gaps before?
I12: Cimerora
I11: None
I10: Rikti War Zone
I9: None
I8: Umm, None
I7: No, wait... none
I6: Pocket D
Yeah, we're being overloaded. /sarcasm
[/ QUOTE ]
Just to let you know, Ouroboros is semi-co-op zone because both sides can acsess it. Although they can't see each other, they actually do pretty much the same stuff in there, except 3 TF's arent acsessable by villians.
Also, it's not the issues before, it's just the many of it recently.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So creating one side only content annoys the playerbase?
I must have missed a lot, then. Last time I checked most player's didn't have a problem with that.
[/ QUOTE ]
One or two Villain players were know to voice unrest from time to time at what they regarded as Hero-only Issuses, I think
[/ QUOTE ]
One or two isn't 'most of the playerbase'. Not that I take your post seriously, GG.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So creating one side only content annoys the playerbase?
I must have missed a lot, then. Last time I checked most player's didn't have a problem with that.
[/ QUOTE ]
One or two Villain players were know to voice unrest from time to time at what they regarded as Hero-only Issuses, I think
[/ QUOTE ]
One or two isn't 'most of the playerbase'. Not that I take your post seriously, GG.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, the "one or two" was a bit of an understatement
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So creating one side only content annoys the playerbase?
I must have missed a lot, then. Last time I checked most player's didn't have a problem with that.
[/ QUOTE ]
One or two Villain players were know to voice unrest from time to time at what they regarded as Hero-only Issuses, I think
[/ QUOTE ]
One or two isn't 'most of the playerbase'. Not that I take your post seriously, GG.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, the "one or two" was a bit of an understatement
[/ QUOTE ]
No, it was the exact amount.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So creating one side only content annoys the playerbase?
I must have missed a lot, then. Last time I checked most player's didn't have a problem with that.
[/ QUOTE ]
One or two Villain players were know to voice unrest from time to time at what they regarded as Hero-only Issuses, I think
[/ QUOTE ]
One or two isn't 'most of the playerbase'. Not that I take your post seriously, GG.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, the "one or two" was a bit of an understatement
[/ QUOTE ]
No, it was the exact amount.
[/ QUOTE ]
It was? I demand a datamine as proof.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So creating one side only content annoys the playerbase?
I must have missed a lot, then. Last time I checked most player's didn't have a problem with that.
[/ QUOTE ]
One or two Villain players were know to voice unrest from time to time at what they regarded as Hero-only Issuses, I think
[/ QUOTE ]
One or two isn't 'most of the playerbase'. Not that I take your post seriously, GG.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, the "one or two" was a bit of an understatement
[/ QUOTE ]
No, it was the exact amount.
[/ QUOTE ]
It was? I demand a datamine as proof.
[/ QUOTE ]
I haven't seen you got that demanding in years, GG. Here it is.
I can't find the quote from BaBs (may have been Hero 1) from the US forums but he has said something along the lines of:
"I'd really like to do a co-op zone where the heroes are forced to partake in morally questionable actions to help stop a threat, actions which a villain wouldn't think twice of doing."
Also with the new system of branching dialogue their testing out, Imperious does say different things depending on your side with heroes he gives the usual guff of honor, reclaiming homeland etc. with villains he mentions that sometimes things need to get violent and that together, he and you, would spill the blood of his enemies so it ran awash in the streets.
The Vanguard mission arcs came along before this branching tech was in place, so expect a lot more contacts to talk to you differently depending on your villain or hero origin.
Badge Earned: Wing Clipper
A real showstopper!