[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your IC and OOC events were annoying and petty..
[/ QUOTE ]
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I was under a huge amount of RL stress at the time as my mum had not long passed away
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... Words fail me.... 
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You have read that wrong, You can not honestly of belived that was ment the way you read it?
Change events to actions.
i have sent you a PM but wil be onlt to happy to say it here.
Im very sorry if my choice of wording lead to you finding somthing in my post that was not there, many others have read it and to my knowledge nobody else has takin it that way. But i can only imagine how you must of felt to read it and for that i'm truly sorry.
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i have sent you a PM but wil be onlt to happy to say it here.
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Taken this to PMs, sorry everybody.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Read, agreed and replyed. Now.. about this fudge stuff?
It's delicious every once in a while, and can be of variable quality, but too much generally leads to bellyaches, confusion and headaches?
Woo, a workable analogy!
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It's delicious every once in a while, and can be of variable quality, but too much generally leads to bellyaches, confusion and headaches?
Woo, a workable analogy!
[/ QUOTE ]
You've been eating too much of mine again Z? I did warn you about that. 
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
all good boys deserve fudge
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all god boys deserve fudge
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There's too many jokes I can make from this comment. 
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
Tricky questions indeed. I think I'm pretty much with the "put it in the bio" camp. If some of the information is secret and some public, mark it as such. Beyond that, it's a matter of trust. If someone misuses OOC information from your bio IC, that's just not good RP behaviour.
There are limits to what this can achieve, though. As concepts and powers get weirder, there will always be unforeseen possibilities. I hadn't actually considered whether the Starlit Spirit would read as "Kheldian" to the senses of other Kheldians. A being that cannot see visible light and relies entirely on super-senses might or might not have a really hard time holding a conversation with Wavekite. The relevant information is in each character's description, but it may not be enough to figure out just what the hell should happen, and it takes even more fudge to patch together an answer.
Putting in your character's actual biographical details is more a matter of choice. I have to say, I've more than once found it useful to be able to remind myself of a hero's name from their bio, even if it's just the spelling, but it's not really essential if you want to keep the identity secret. Still, for high-profile characters who frequently hit the front pages for great heroism/altruism/debauchery, such information could be considered essential. For example, everyone in the city theoretically knows that Jay Reynolds is the Crimson Archer (going by the number who own the action figures, anyway 
)
Knights Exemplar: Wolfram, Autumnfox, Starlit Spirit.
Militia: The Portent, Wavekite, Mr. Sandman.
The Cadre: WarpLocke, Zajin.
Numerous others.
Hmmm y'know every power set in the game can be explained by sufficent use of psycho or tele kenisis.
Every power even bows and arrows!
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
I haven't read the topic fully, just wanted to point out, with my first post back that:
You're doing it wrong! "Canon, Fudge & Doing it You Are Way"
Much love and lulz. ^_^
It takes Chaos to move the world to Action.
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I haven't read the topic fully, just wanted to point out, with my first post back that:
You're doing it wrong! "Canon, Fudge & Doing it You Are Way"
Much love and lulz. ^_^
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah yeah, I know... I noticed it not long after the edit time expired..
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
It's happened to the best of us...
Simple fact: This forum is a Horrible.
It takes Chaos to move the world to Action.
*Digs into pocket and throws two cents onto the floor*
Hm, it sounds like you were breaking a common sense RP rule which set you up for a fall. Assuming that Miss Ellie would be able to detect any Kheldian, is sort of a lower form of God-Modding in a sense. Not everything represented by the Game-Mechanics is exactly as it appears to be in RP.
In assuming that every Kheldian would have to be a Peacebringer or Warshade, you're doing the same thing as assuming Radiation always has to be radiation. However I've used it to represent Disease Magic and Dark Empathy before., due to its Nausious Green Colour. Captain Solaric (my other Villain) uses Super-Strength/Invulnerability to represent the Light and Dark of space, Super-Strength Glows like stars and Invulnerability is Dark like the Void.
Best thing to do is to turn off Character Names and avoid the over-use of Bios. It just adds to the realism of Roleplay for one thing. You don't already know someone's name before you talk to them. You have to identify others from their looks, and you don't form dangerous assumptions in your mind before you even begin interacting.
It's like Don't Judge a Book by its Cover. Don't judge a Character from its OOC information.
I see how the Level 50 scrapper playing a Kheldian could've been confusing, but when you reach Level 50 you get the chance to merge with a Kheldian anyway so... unless merging with a Kheldian destroys all of that Characters original powers... It kind of makes sense that you would meet level 50 non PB/WS characters with a Kheldian, doesn't it?
It does also sounds like this other player wasn't planning on running into another Kheldian, and threw in that reaction for fun. Spur of the moment, which backs-up why they weren't playing the Warshade version of that character.
It takes Chaos to move the world to Action.
Actually, when you get to level 50 you just have a chance to create a Kheldian, there's nothing implied about your level 50 character becoming one.
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Actually, when you get to level 50 you just have a chance to create a Kheldian, there's nothing implied about your level 50 character becoming one.
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In fact, there's canon to indicate that they DON'T bond with super-powered beings.
And IMO, it's reasonable to presume that 1 kheldian will recognize another member of their species, given that they're an energy being; and Ellie's senses ARE given in her bio. The character in question had nothing in their bio, so nothing to indicate what they were playing.
Anyway, the point has become somewhat moot now, as the next night, the same character was a vampire... 
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, the point has become somewhat moot now, as the next night, the same character was a vampire...
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, she's been a vampire for a couple of weeks, after events that took place in PD. And no, I did not see the Nictus thing coming. Honest.
I'm beginning to thing I need to stop getting my characters dragged into other characters' problems though.
I also need to stop writing rubbish posts that need 10 edits within 2 minutes...
Sam: "My mind is a swirling miasma of scintillating thoughts and turgid ideas."
Max: "Me too."
Stuff
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Actually, she's been a vampire for a couple of weeks, after events that took place in PD. And no, I did not see the Nictus thing coming. Honest.
I'm beginning to thing I need to stop getting my characters dragged into other characters' problems though.
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About time for me to weigh in again. First up, the last thing I want to do is drop on another player with "you're doing it wrong!", but this particular example is a good one for us to use, as it lets us discuss apparent canon violations.
A couple of pages back, someone mentioned that history is written by the victors, and I agree with that (and with the fact that history can be interpreted in many different ways), but what happens when someone's character violates the canon that is known to other characters of the same species? Like: Kheldian's cannot bond with someone who is not willing. This is not an interpretation - it is an established fact that forms a huge part of the Council story arcs in the game.
I don't have any particular issue with the character in question, all told: As I have mentioned elsewhere, if the body was a clone or construct and the nictus inhabited it before it gained a sense of self, then I can see no reason that the character violates canon - and since that is what seems to be the case, I'm more than happy with the character to be (or have inhabiting it, as the case may be) a nictus. Nothing that I am aware of says that a nictus couldn't inhabit a vampire - the problem here stems from the fact that a Kheldian needs a living body to act as a host, else it will die in a few months/years. There are a number of player-created examples of characters where the bond does not exist, yet a Kheldian is parasitically 'riding' the host body, so I don't see any issues there.
My only problem with the character in question is that as far as anyone could see (from AT and bio information) they were a human. Okay, you might say, that's what they look/sound like. Alright. What about werewolves? Traditionally their sense of smell allows them to identify vampires easily. This character is a vampire. Any werewolf nearby would be able to identify them as such, without the player having to ask each and every other player present 'are you a vampire?' Other characters, notably Tiger White and Shadowe in this discussion, have unusual senses that enable them to identify (or at least differentiate) energy sources - but I don't want to have to ask each and every player present 'does your character give off weird or unusual amounts of energy?' every time Richard closes his eyes and concentrates on his 'other' sense.
Now, in the RP that happened, Richard didn't do that. He was operating on the information available to him from his own senses and the slightly improved data from his scanners - none of which would identify a Kheldian. Ellie's abilities, on the other hand, while perhaps being more refined than those of most Kheldians, are not unusual amongst Kheldians - it is known (though how much of this is player fudge, and how much is canon I couldn't comment on) that they can recognise each other on sight. So, when Ellie says, IC, that she can't detect any other Kheldians nearby, Richard, IC takes her at her word - if FFM has checked each and every player bio nearby and can't see "This character has a nictus inside it", or that any of the characters are Kheldians from their AT, then it is perfectly acceptable to assume that no one is trying to fudge possession.
Perhaps the most important thing for me to note (again) is that I don't think the player is wrong to have their character contain a nictus. Nor do I have any issue with the character not being fully bonded. Nor do I think the character violates canon by being what they are (someone who has a nictus within them unwillingly) - the history was clearly thought through to account for these things. The only mis-step that I can see is that other players weren't provided with sufficient information that their characters can (given those characters' powers and abilities) reasonably expect to know. It would be like me not mentioning that Richard has an English accent, then being surprised when everyone assumes he's American (though I expect his speech patterns would point them in the right direction, anyway).
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
Easy unwillingg host fudge.
Whatever it is within a person/sentient being that blocks possesion is weakened during a traumatic experience.
While a stronger willed person may block the poessesion easily, some one with a weaker will may simply be too scared/trauamtised by seeing a space squid that they are unable to resist the invasion.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Interesting discussion, touching on a number of points.
(advanced apologies for getting a little carried away with the fudge metaphor)
First a quickie on the warshade vampire... as a new RP'er, keen to not tread on toes and generally stir waters, had the same person told me there were a Kheld, I'd have likely just rolled with it. It's their char. If, after the event, I realised I didn't enjoy 'rp'ing' with them, then I wouldn't initiate anything with them in the future.
But getting to the main area of debate, the Canon vs Fudge ratio, I am surprised that so far no one has made mention as to what a barrier to entry Canon is for new roleplayers... both in this particular game or new to RP'ing in general.
Before going any further, I'd like to emphasise, that everyone I have met in my aims to get into RP, has been great, and very encouraging. All my waffle below is merely 'fudge for thought'...
Any new person trying to get involved is faced not only by the mountain of canon held together by a tangled splodge of semi-official fudge-like substances. But this mountain is defended by a veritable army of seasoned RP'ers, exclusive cliques, and social groups, all armed with their own individual fudge shields and canon interpretations.
I joined this game in December, and started looking at the RP side of things early Jan. Since then I have barely stopped reading, everything from guides, paragonwiki, union rp wiki, and of course these forums. Yet still I didn't know that...
[ QUOTE ]
Zortel owns a huge company.
Coile is the biggest perv in paragon ( )
Sword of redemption/Doctor mechano makes the ever popular talkie-toaster
Lunk is big and scary.
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Well, actually, I did know the last one, but only from reading some story about him beating on Supatrolls whilst some reporter watched. At least I think that was him. But names get confusing after reading so much.
Despite all the reading though, I have had to tell my new RP SG, I was willing to let my L9 alt PB level in the SG to earn prestige, but I'm not comfortable RP'ing with him. I simply haven't yet come across a nice, clear, guide to the fundamentals of these Nictus folk.
Despite having a L50, I haven't seen many of the later level arcs yet, (atleast not from the owner point of view, where I have access to the clues to read) so whilst I read a lot about Nemesis always being behind everything, I know very little about them/him.
Did the Mender Silos TF the other day with the SG, and the final mission we were suddenly rescuing 13-14 of the big canon heroes, and fighting a similar number of canon villains. After Miss Liberty, BaB, Statesman and Positron - all the rest of the names were completely new to me. I hadn't heard of them. Manticore I vaguely knew from the wedding stuff, but I don't know his history. Yet I was in a 8 man group RP'ing all their various little histories with these heroes as we met/rescued each one. And I had to remain silent. I didn't know if my character knew any of these heroes. And I didn't know enough canon about them to make something up on the spot.
Fudge is not only a way for veteran rp'ers to fill in annoying gaps in the canon, or just to provide needed flexibility for originality. It also serves as material for a pair of giant 'platform shoes' for new rp'ers to make a half dozen big steps up that canon mountain so they too can enjoy themselves.
That is, unless some veteran smashes through newbie fudge and watch them slide back down to the bottom of the mountain again. Whether they attempt to carry on or just gives up on CoX RP is down to the individual.
~
I propose that if canon is of any particular importance (and of course it is) then why isn't there a nice fat sticky at the top of this forum with a lovely linked list of places to serenely float through the known canon and the generally accepted (Union) fudge?
At the moment, the stickies, and the union wiki is mainly concerned with meeting the people/characters. But I could do that ingame, if I wasn't concerned about making an [censored] of myself through lack of canon knowledge.
Not only would it be a nice place to point those RP'ers you encounter that aren't doing very well to the detriment of general RP. But also a handy location for those more shy RP'ers who try to learn as much as possible before attempting any RP in the first place.
For the record and despite my late and little participation to this discussion, I just want to say I usually ignore "canon" in CoH.
Because when I had a vague interest about reading it, it was (still is ?) spread a bit there and there.
Because, once "true to canon" starts to be important in your gaming, you generally get arguments over interpretation.
About the specific example mentionned, it's probably just bad but understandable miscommunication.
Other than that, i'm not particularly shocked at seeing a character claiming to be this or that, despite what game information tells me.
Certainly, it's better when your visual matches your concept or, at least, don't visually contradict blatantly the concept.
But there are many characters wielding various powers totally unrelated to the archetype.
And I don't see why claiming a character is a Nictus when not actually being that AT is really different than claiming to be a vampire (even if not burning under the sun), having magic powers (say, divination and various treatment, despite being a scrapper or a defender).
Or playing two characters at once whose AT are sometimes completely unrelated if not thematically opposed, because the goal is to play a dual personnality, or a possessed hero.
There are also the X versions of the same character but with different ATs, which suppose others must forget what your character is currently, technically speaking, and remember instead what is your IC story.
So... really... Nictus in scrapper clothes... why not.
As soon as you drift from the CoH character frame, you should find a way to let other players know about your concept. That's all.
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As soon as you drift from the CoH character frame, you should find a way to let other players know about your concept. That's all.
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And that, as I already explained, WAS the problem. I couldn't really care less if the AT a person is playing matches ICly with what they're portraying; but if they fail to communicate that to other players, then people WILL make the assumption that the character is what the AT indicates. With no other clues to go on, it's the only assumption anyone could really make.
As for canon; ignore it as you will, but that will just cause even more issues in the long run, as lots of others won't ignore it. So when you break it, you'll eventually end up with IC conflict.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
I rarely go into IC conflict since I tend to play with players who share, more or less, my views about handling canon. It's far from being a general rule that people follow it, or even know it.
Actually, I don't recall ever having a single canon issue.
Every interaction in game relying on abilities, history or whatever that isn't supported directly by the game engine can trigger problems.
Finding a common ground and passing info is the key.
The easiest common ground available to everyone is the game canon. It's only when you fudge that issues can arise.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
It only depends on you. It isn't mandatory.
You can perfectly find a "common ground", things on which players can agree without being obliged to use "canon".
And it's only "easier" if you suppose everyone is having an extended knowledge of "canon". I'm not certain it's the case.
With even a tiny ounce of thought you could make a concept fit any in game build you want.
"Psychic" energy/dev blaster the devices and blasts are psionic constructs and force.
Good none Warshade Nictus? Simple the Nictus didn't join in with the others who had become Warshades simply because in addition realising the errors of its ways it also decided that it shouldn't trust others again.
I mean if you were to tie everything down to game play mechanics the lack of a "robot" voice would mean all robots in the cityies are actually men/women in suits.
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The events in the official history happened, as far as our characters are concerned.
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History is written not by the victor or the defeated but by historians. The offical story of stuff is just what is accepted.
We "know" that Russia nuked America in CoX history but, how do we "know" said nuke was really a nuke, not a space time tear, spell cast by cyborg Rasputin (they shot, posioned him, stabbed him. beat him, drowned him but it was Windows ME that killed him) or the destruction of a nucleur powered dinosaur?
Any number of indivduals in the RP world could of simply paid people off so that history mentions things differently.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.