[ QUOTE ]
I highly doubt a fire/fire will notice much of this, looking at their /fire damage ditchout.
Its mainly the ice/elec-nrg or fire/nrg-elec-dev sets that will be 'the targets', all other sets will only benefit.
[/ QUOTE ]Considering the attacks nerfed are ST, are you saying /fire dishes out more ST damage than /elec or /nrg? 
I dont think many pick /fire for the ST damage 
Added compared blaze and BiB win pretty easy on the sonic/nrg version of the short-range high dmg powers, combine the 1.17 faster cast on flares (woooo spammit baby!) it might be interesting to calculate chain-wise damage difference (although DPS is a good standard, it lacks the point of situational power choices and effect of BU/Aim).
/nrg and /elec are the 'fotm pvp' sets, from those sides you here most probably the most negative issues, added that i dont know many primairy sets that can beat /elec or /nrg ST damage. For a AR/ice (we know ice is gimp), nrg/ice (gimp again) or a elec/dev its really a nice change.
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Well my Ice/Fire will feel this and I'm pretty sure its not FoTM, or FoTanything
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I think normalizing animation times is the lazy way to balance things, and makes the sets less unique.
[/ QUOTE ]
The ONLY real way to balance things is to make them equal on all accounts. Thats it. That said I dont want to live in a completely balanced world, it is boring. This equalization was needed though in my opinion. Since Ice and fire were ahead in ALL aspects (except flares).
ps. I have a fire/fire blaster. It wont feel this since its a AOE blaster anyway.
Next up, the short-range high dmg powers
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
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[ QUOTE ]
Next up, the short-range high dmg powers
[/ QUOTE ]
Allowing you to use them whilst mezzed? Or being "standardised" in animation time?
Neither's gonna happen, since some sets don't have 'em.
(Yes, I saw the humour and the smiley! )
Although apparently when they get a bit of time freed up they're going to be looking into fixing (Generally fixing, not AT-specific) powers with a silly-long animation time. Sonic's "Shout" anyone? 
Yeah was a joke, but with a purpose.
As fire and ice feel 'nerfed', they forgetting BiB and Blaze still win bigtime from the nrg and sonic short-ranger, over a second of rooting. The other sets do not have, but already suffer big time.
Flametrower looses bigtime from firebreath/frostbreath (bot rooting, animation and DoT). Archery looses about all cases, after tier1/2 neary all powers have redraw/rooting and longcasting (Ok, FA beats RoA with iirc 6 vs 4sec, not to mention SL and nrg are among the most resisted elements). Leaving elec and AR without a shortranger, however get highly compensated by rather higher tier1/2 wich get greatly boosted (both were 2ish seconds iirc).
So the 'balanced across the sets' goes further then just plain looking at tier 1/2.
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Hammer if you're not going to bother reading a few extra pages in this thread why bother going OH HAI ANIMATION CHANGE MUST BE GOOD?
And your FoTM comment is just [censored] retarded, if you don't like the idea of popular sets that's fine - they weren't always that way, but hey. This is a bad change for Fire and Ice Blasters, people will still take them for the Damage in my opinion and the only thing is reduced movement while using them.
If you don't care about the game, kindly stop posting. So what if you're Energy Blaster, big whoop, it's a great change for him, but if you can't look past that to see what it's doing to some other sets that's your problem.
[ QUOTE ]
if you don't like the idea of popular sets that's fine - they weren't always that way, but hey. This is a bad change for Fire and Ice Blasters, people will still take them for the Damage in my opinion and the only thing is reduced movement while using them
[/ QUOTE ]
^ Quoting this for emphasis.
[ QUOTE ]
Wth are you babbling about. Im not commenting on the possible defiance change whatever that is, but I think the proposed 1st and 2nd blast animation change is GOOD.
[/ QUOTE ]
Read the whole thread next time cause i am speaking about the animation changes.
[ QUOTE ]
This is a bad change for Fire and Ice Blasters
[/ QUOTE ]
Did I mention I have a Fire/NRG, a Fire/Ice and an Ice/Dev Blaster and (overall) I like the changes?
...
...
(Ordinarily my charred corpse would be falling to the ground right about now, but I guess the new version of "Fire Blast" is still animating...)
...
...
*Whump*
(Ahh, there it is! )
Well Mael i guess i will wait and see till the new change arrives but in theory doesnt sound that good to me and i really love my mobility on fire blaster.If this goes through is just meh imho or at least till i see it in practise.
[ QUOTE ]
Hammer if you're not going to bother reading a few extra pages in this thread why bother going OH HAI ANIMATION CHANGE MUST BE GOOD?
And your FoTM comment is just [censored] retarded, if you don't like the idea of popular sets that's fine - they weren't always that way, but hey. This is a bad change for Fire and Ice Blasters, people will still take them for the Damage in my opinion and the only thing is reduced movement while using them.
If you don't care about the game, kindly stop posting. So what if you're Energy Blaster, big whoop, it's a great change for him, but if you can't look past that to see what it's doing to some other sets that's your problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
Unlike you.. caring only for ice? (bitty fire?)
I wonder how all the /regen's fell when they got nerfed SEVERAL TIMES. Probably is just as heavy as they do to ice now isit?
Caring about this game is taking 0,6 sec for granted for the sake of massive buff on the other sets. Looking further then your little narrow street called 'ice/nrg'. Fire remains debateble due the great reduce of flares.
And fyi, i am the 2nd ice/nrg of defiant, so i am 'one of them too'.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
[ QUOTE ]
Well Mael i guess i will wait and see till the new change arrives but in theory doesnt sound that good to me and i really love my mobility on fire blaster.If this goes through is just meh imho or at least till i see it in practise.
[/ QUOTE ]
I hate playing the wait-and-see game... but there's not much else we can do right now. I'm still not quite 100% convinced that the original "1.67 second" figure BAB quoted is actually going to end up being implemented for all the 2nd tier attacks, given all the fuss there's been over this.
I've a sneaking suspicion that Castle is going to try to scale it downwards a bit. Or maybe make part of the animation non-rooting or something when you're moving a-la-Assault/Tactics. There's a LOT of stink on the forums that's been kicked up over Ice + Fire (whether I agree with said stink or not...)
At this point in time I can't help feeling that extra base damage and PsuedoFury is going to more than make up for the animation tweaks... but time will tell. I've no plans to respec out of Ice Bolt or respec into Flares instead of Fireball etc. anyway... so whatever the changes are, my current toons'll live with it.
I also really, really like +damage. Especially BASE +damage.
Some sort of repressed Pyromania or something, no doubt... 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wth are you babbling about. Im not commenting on the possible defiance change whatever that is, but I think the proposed 1st and 2nd blast animation change is GOOD.
[/ QUOTE ]
Read the whole thread next time cause i am speaking about the animation changes.
[/ QUOTE ]
I know you were. Thats what I commented on. I mentioned defiance because I wasnt sure whether these changes were done because of a defiance change.
Just did some checking, seems fire is getting a pretty nice ST attack chain of 4 powers, wich a 1-2 chain wait of 0.3 sec and 1.3sec. Not bad i would say
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hammer if you're not going to bother reading a few extra pages in this thread why bother going OH HAI ANIMATION CHANGE MUST BE GOOD?
And your FoTM comment is just [censored] retarded, if you don't like the idea of popular sets that's fine - they weren't always that way, but hey. This is a bad change for Fire and Ice Blasters, people will still take them for the Damage in my opinion and the only thing is reduced movement while using them.
If you don't care about the game, kindly stop posting. So what if you're Energy Blaster, big whoop, it's a great change for him, but if you can't look past that to see what it's doing to some other sets that's your problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
Unlike you.. caring only for ice? (bitty fire?)
I wonder how all the /regen's fell when they got nerfed SEVERAL TIMES. Probably is just as heavy as they do to ice now isit?
Caring about this game is taking 0,6 sec for granted for the sake of massive buff on the other sets. Looking further then your little narrow street called 'ice/nrg'. Fire remains debateble due the great reduce of flares.
And fyi, i am the 2nd ice/nrg of defiant, so i am 'one of them too'.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes because I'm all about Ice/ when I've got my Fire/Ice and my Sonic/Fire Blasters as well.
I have 3 Blasters at or near 50 and none of them are getting an animation buff, two are getting an animation nerf in regards to Tier2 powers. I don't need Flares in my attack chain - I have enough Recharge on my Fire/Ice blaster to chain BLast>Ball>Blaze>Blast>Ball and so on and you know what? That does me just fine. Flares will still be poor DPE in my opinion even with the end return chance.
And you know what Blasters I enjoy playing most? Ice and Fire Blast - simply because I can bounce around with the pew pew, whereas with Sonic I feel like I'm stuck in mud half the time. I felt the same way when playing Energy Blast and Archery, too.
So trust me when I say this, this isn't about decrying nerfs while we have no hard numbers, this isn't about possibly having damage lowered in PvP. This is about this change negatively impacting my playstyle and enjoyment of my Blasters. Props to those that like the changes, but I don't. I'd like to keep my animations the same rather than have them bought in to line with the lowest common denominator in T2.
Now, as for these animations being tweaked to provide everyone with ability to get use out of the "shoot crappy attacks while Mez'd" Defiance thing - why is increasing animation times helping that on those particular sets? See, I get lowering them, but not increasing.
Oh and for the record, I don't have an Ice/Energy. He's Ice/Elec and one of the first on Defiant and to PvP in general. He was originally rolled as a Blast/Control concept experiment when they announced the Elec APP for Blasters, so really - it wasn't jumping on to a so called FoTM bandwagon.
So you have enough recharge to bring Ball down from 16 seconds to a little 2-3 seconds recharge? I say, i am serious impressed. Ok, even 4 seconds if we take 2 sec for blast/ball animation/effect, we're talking 400% total recharge.
accept, adept, and move on. Like regen did, like everyone with ED did, like basicly every little nerf in the game.
You nearly say it yourself, nrg AR archery and sonic are gimped sets, rooting etc. As Mael says, nobody knows yet what they exactly gonna do with the 2 sets, but if there has to be balance, fire and ice will get hit. At the end, its PvE primairy, PvP is gimped anyway.
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Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
[ QUOTE ]
I hate playing the wait-and-see game... but there's not much else we can do right now. I'm still not quite 100% convinced that the original "1.67 second" figure BAB quoted is actually going to end up being implemented for all the 2nd tier attacks, given all the fuss there's been over this.
[/ QUOTE ]
We will indeed have to wait and see. I definitely would like to test this. I personally could live with a compromise of 1.2 second tier 2 animation. My Fire Blaster wouldn't change and my Ice blaster would only change slightly, but seeing I'm already used to 1.2 sec animation from my Fire Blaster, I wouldn't object as much. I know that's playable enough.
Now 1.67 seconds, is about the same as my Sonic and my deleted Energy Blaster and I know from experience that this will annoy me.
I just hope they don't rush this through to make the I11 deadline.
[ QUOTE ]
So you have enough recharge to bring Ball down from 16 seconds to a little 2-3 seconds recharge? I say, i am serious impressed. Ok, even 4 seconds if we take 2 sec for blast/ball animation/effect, we're talking 400% total recharge.
accept, adept, and move on. Like regen did, like everyone with ED did, like basicly every little nerf in the game.
You nearly say it yourself, nrg AR archery and sonic are gimped sets, rooting etc. As Mael says, nobody knows yet what they exactly gonna do with the 2 sets, but if there has to be balance, fire and ice will get hit. At the end, its PvE primairy, PvP is gimped anyway.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're missing my point.
but if there has to be balance, fire and ice will get hit
Why? Blasters are underperforming accross the board. Bring the sets in line with Fire Blast.
You nearly say it yourself, nrg AR archery and sonic are gimped sets, rooting etc.
Yes, and making Fire and Ice root more is a sensible way to fix this, isn't it?
If you read my posts, my primary concern is are the animation lengths increasing for Fire and Ice in regards to loss of momentum and rooting, not the new Defiance and if you concede that rooting = gimped then tell me how giving two fluid sets more rooting is a good idea?
(And no, my attack chain is mostly Blast>Ball>Blast>Blaze>Blast>Ball etc... but even still, there's no room for Flares).
[ QUOTE ]
Blasters are underperforming accross the board. Bring the sets in line with Fire Blast.
[/ QUOTE ]
This.
It might be a good thing for the rest blaster primaries but for fire and ice this is major issue. Blasters are supposed to be aligned in order to not underperform and in the effort to fix what was already busted they ruining what was working fine.
I am cool with a 1.2 second animation and all sets aligned to this as Mesmer said.
Yes i speak from clearly a PvP point of view but people need to understand that PvP is one of the situations where AT capabilities are really stressed to the max and animation changes such as 0.5 sec or so make a big difference.
So basicly the idea becomes:
-Tier 1/2 into 1 and 1.2 sec casting
-shortrange power acros the board to 1 sec (nrg/sonic)
-The target-AoE all to 1 sec (AR, archery, nrg - has delay)
-Flametrower to equal of firebreath/icebreath (or even align with nrg or sonic?)
-ranged mezzer all to 1 sec (nrg, sonic, ar, archery, elec)
That would make them casting/rooting wise more equal. Yet still Archery and AR remain with redraw, SL-syndrom.
Yet basicly you say TG, PvP is only for Ice and Fire? As they seemed to be gimped with a 0.5 increase casting, while the rest have powers way over 1,67 sec casting.
Oh well, within a month or so the first changes will be there, i'll see what happens.
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Bring animation times on T2 down to Fire Blast level and normalise the big hitters like Blaze as well in terms of animation time and you'll have a hell of a lot more balance in terms of what's taken by who.
If they did that, most people would take Sonic/ for PvP in my opinion. Stun>Hold 1v1, -Res>Slow or DoT in Teams etc...
But this is the CoH Dev team, so of course, they'll nerf to the common denominator instead of buff to the standard of the sets that should be the example.
Sonic would be instant PVP FOTM if it would animate as well as Fire and Ice. No doubt whatsoever. I rolled mine in the hope that they would eventually fix some of the rooting issues.
Semi-relevant Update- Castle from here
Lot's of animation time changes for Archery/Trick Arrow
Archery:
Snap Shot: 1.00s
Aimed Shot: 1.67
Fistfull: 1.17
Blazing: 1.83
Aim: 1.17
Explosive: 1.83
Ranged: 3+1.67
Stunning: 1.83
Rain: 4
Trick Arrow:
Entangling: 1
Flash: 1.83
Glue: 1.16
Ice: 1.83
PGA: 1.16
Acid: 1.83
Disruption: 1.16
*sob*THAT power: 1.16 [He means OIL SLICK!!]
EMP: (time is unchanged)
I highly doubt a fire/fire will notice much of this, looking at their /fire damage ditchout.
Its mainly the ice/elec-nrg or fire/nrg-elec-dev sets that will be 'the targets', all other sets will only benefit.
Most my toons just benefit, i'm happy
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