Thugs / Poison. Debuff heaven. That's all I have to say on the matter. 
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Bots/traps. Tankerminds need lots of def, if you BG mode tank. In BG, even if you have high res, when an attack hits you, you'll be fine with the res, but the pets will get hit quite hard. Therefore, defence is better, as if it misses you, none of the minions will get hit. (Unless it's an AoE).
So yeah, FFG+Epic shield+Protector Bot Bubbles+CJ= nearly def cap for s/l.
Add that to ghetto max hp values from BG mode, throw in presence, and debuffs from secondary, and you're good to go
Thugs or Bots as primary and FF or Traps as secondary.
Any combination of them can tank quite good.
But _Spirit is right - best personal Def you can get is Bots/Traps/Mace (nearly 50% S/L Def with CJ or Hover)
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_Spirit
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Please, call me Spirit
"Now with tanking in mind, (solo, team, PvE, PvP, against big groups, against AV's, all of it), what combination do you think would be able to take the most damage before face planting? "
I would have to say thug/poison or thug/ traps. We all know I love ninja, but they just dont take damage well. Poison trap makes all heros/AVs so far puke a few times. Thats when pets should go aggro, while the enemy is helpless.
With MM's you can get Black Scorpions Patron Shield, that plus FFG + CJ+ ACRO, you will be able to walk into big huge mobs, and plant that poison trap.With that in mind, is why I also stacked the "Blood Mandate" pet set in all my pets, for the recovery and insane Ranged and AoE defense it provides. Ranged and AoE attacks are my MM's nightmare. Melee types = I dont have to come to you to lay trap at your feet.
With traps, getting that poison trap to stack itself will enable you to tank everything pretty much (fire armor disclaimer). Between your acid mortar debuff, tactics, and your own buffs (FFG, CJ?, patron shield) you should be melting them away.
In pvp, AoE is your enemy. Its worse for my PvP ish ninja trap MM than Illusionists, Elude, and a lot of other scary stuff. Example, my purely PvE AoE specced fire rad was able to beat a Merc/ Dark MM by spamming all my AoE stuff. Stuff that hits you and pets at same time especially while in BG mode is very very bad.
I suspect that for tanking through all the levels, thugs or necro with poison or traps.
For levels 40+, I kinda suspect that Merc/Traps or Mercs FFG/Poison would be unbelievable, and basically shred all to bits. TP foe is great for MMs, even better for PvP and if you get TP self as a travel power. Seriously, if you have the patience to wait for a build to pay off, Mercs could really be the ticket. BTW, Tanking with a ninja trap MM is entirely possible and fairly easy with a bit of planning.
Your:
Private Dancer
Oh, is it really necessary to have a tanking discussion in the MM forums? 
If we are talking about which combination will be standing last FF secondary will certainly be one of the best, but that's only if we count 'seconds survived' and not total efficiency (which could perhaps be measured in something like 'xp survived'). In terms or the latter /poison and /dark are the best (with one being better than the other depending on the situation at hand) and either zombies or thugs would be a nice match for tanking purposes.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
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Oh, is it really necessary to have a tanking discussion in the MM forums?
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Ehh where else whould we discuss it? The Tankermind is a proven concept and has been around for a while.
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If we are talking about which combination will be standing last FF secondary will certainly be one of the best, but that's only if we count 'seconds survived' and not total efficiency (which could perhaps be measured in something like 'xp survived'). In terms or the latter /poison and /dark are the best (with one being better than the other depending on the situation at hand) and either zombies or thugs would be a nice match for tanking purposes.
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Dont see your point to be honest, ofc we assume that the mastermind would survive the battle... But each set have their strong points.
Thanks for all the advice guys! Think im gonna go for a bots/traps just to get away from bots/ff :P
That with all defence bonus i can get my hands on, patron shield ofc, heal self and provoke should work great. Gonna sit down and see if i can work in tough and waeve in the build... Or stamina... or hasten... decisions decisions...
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Oh, is it really necessary to have a tanking discussion in the MM forums?
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Ehh where else whould we discuss it? The Tankermind is a proven concept and has been around for a while.
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Eeeehm, was the smiley not big enough? I thought it was quite clear that that statement was a joking reference to the almighty 'What is tanking?' discussion regarding the tanker AT.
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If we are talking about which combination will be standing last FF secondary will certainly be one of the best, but that's only if we count 'seconds survived' and not total efficiency (which could perhaps be measured in something like 'xp survived'). In terms or the latter /poison and /dark are the best (with one being better than the other depending on the situation at hand) and either zombies or thugs would be a nice match for tanking purposes.
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Dont see your point to be honest, ofc we assume that the mastermind would survive the battle...
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My point is that the question 'Which MM tanks best?' is similarly difficult to answer as the question 'Which tanker tanks best?' (and could easily provide material for a similarly heated discussion).
There are so many questions to answer: How much damage can I take? What can I do to keep my teammates and henchmen alive? How long will I have to survive the punishment, i.e. what can I do to reduce the opponents' survivability? etc.
Resistance and defence are the 'conservative' answer to questions of survivability, but do little to save others unless extra effort is spent to keep enemies' attention focused on you as resistance and defence works as mitigation of damage input on the receiving end.
Debuffs on the other hand do more for keeping everybody alive without you having to spend extra effort as they mitigate enemies' damage output and draw quite some aggro anyway. And as a bonus you can debuff enemies' survivability, thus further limiting the potential incoming damage from a given amount of opponents.
So, given the general conditions of a MM with pets, bodyguard mode and all that I would prefer 'debuff tanking' any day, but more 'traditional' players may rather resort to /FF + Presence pool although it would not be that efficient overall. With /traps secondary you will have something of both worlds which may be a good thing if traps are your thing.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
I've been a Scrappermind or a MasterBrute (or whatever hell you want to call them) for a little while now with my Robotics/Dark....
It's very easy to do and a lot of fun. Basically I call it my "abuse of Bodyguard mode" build and that's a pretty good description. I think it's less a build than a playstyle, though. I've gotten already established MM to pretend they're a tanker and it almost always goes incredibly well.
So I guess I'd say have fun and tank as opposed to over-think how exactly you're going to be the best tanker possible.
-jared
I wonder, what do you do against sleep?
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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I wonder, what do you do against sleep?
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How good's Sovereign Might's mez resistance? I've only got a couple of them so far but they seem to work quite well.
Mez and debuff the mezzers first.
Or let the robots unload their alpha strike on the mezzer before switching back to bodyguard mode. It's better to potentially lose a tier 1 henchie which you can instantly resummon than to spend most of the fight being helpless.
And then there is always breakfrees when something goes wrong for whatever reason (series of misses, too many mezzers, resilient mezzing boss etc.).
With all the mez/debuff tools at their hands /Dark and /Poison are like made for masterbrutes.
EDIT: Sovereign Right's mez resistance? I guess the question is about the global bonus. It's only 2,75%, but it stacks nicely with the mez resistance IO from Aegis and stuff like that. However, it is only something reactive for those moments when you failed by being mezzed in the first place.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
Freak lts, can take them down all in 1 second? Each can do a ranged sleep. Those wails, same story. Rikti, same story. Not to mention, even 0.000001 second slept, there goes all your toggles, hello all other mez.
Tanker/brute/scrapper? lol no. (1 of the basics, protection to all mez except non-toggle droppers).
wannabe tanker/brute? bingo.
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Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
Freak Lts... Yes, I can take them down, mez, debuff and generally prevent them from doing anything harmful all before they can mez me. Those wails, same story. Rikti, same story. Why I should have more problems with other mez only because some toggles drop is beyond me. Are you talking about Acrobatics? Heck, why should I need Acrobatics if my mez protection is proactive and not reactive? It's the same for all of my three remaining MMs (/Poison and /Dark secondaries).
Tanker/brute/scrapper? lol no. (One of the basics, protection from all mez except non-toggle droppers is only necessary if your protection is reactive and you have actual armours that could drop.)
Wannabe tanker/brute? lol no... Well, maybe in some cases, but I can only speak for myself.
Better tank than the usual brute? Bingo.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
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Freak lts, can take them down all in 1 second? Each can do a ranged sleep. Those wails, same story. Rikti, same story. Not to mention, even 0.000001 second slept, there goes all your toggles, hello all other mez.
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/Traps FFG ftw!
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Freak lts, can take them down all in 1 second? Each can do a ranged sleep. Those wails, same story. Rikti, same story. Not to mention, even 0.000001 second slept, there goes all your toggles, hello all other mez.
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/Traps FFG ftw!
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Heh, yeah, the FFG comes quite handy as a non-toggle mez-protection (and some things more). That's one of the reasons why I said /Traps could be a good choice if you don't mind /Traps' trappishness. 
/Traps just don't support my preferred playstyle that well, but there are so many ways to skin a cat... 
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
This thread reminded me how much fun my bots/trap/taunting MM was. I think I'll start him again .
And it's great to see someone thinking and playing proactively Sitriel .
I like Sitriel, he is a thinking mans player.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
/em cuddles Shannon
And cheers to you, Mighty. I hope you enjoy playing your MM as I do playing mine.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
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Better tank than the usual brute? Bingo.
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By the simple fact that a brute isnt a tanker and 99% play them as scrapper. I rather still take the brute though.
As for toggles, acro is slightly a tiny issue. Leadership, FF bubble, dark shadow fall, patron shield.
A playstyle, not my style, but indeed a interesting to play.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
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Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
Actually, I play my brutes as brutes which is in my opinion somewhere in between tankers and scrappers (with shifts toward one or the other according to chosen powersets and build). However, I don't see MMs and brutes necessarily competing for the same 'spot' (even if the MM plays 'masterbrute style'), so I am perfectly fine having both in my team as both can be equally beneficient to the team's performance if played well.
And retoggling can be a pain in the posterior if you do get mezzed, but a dropping Tactics or patron shield hardly allows a hold to affect you that wouldn't have affected you anyway. That's why I assumed you were talking about something like Acrobatics (since the anti-mez bubble from FF would be quite powerset-specific). But, as I said, the challenge is not to allow the mezzers to mez you in the first place.
And it really is an interesting playstyle. I adopted it the very moment they implemented bodyguard mode and never looked back.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
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'masterbrute style'
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I read that wrong 
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'masterbrute style'
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I read that wrong
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Lets not talk about your obsession shall we?
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
Hey all, i have i 50 Necro/Poison MM and since i have had much more fun playing him then anything else i was planning on making a new mastermind. This time i was thinking about trying to build a real tough "Tankermind", a mastermind that can tank. With my Necro/Poison i feel i am lacking in that department since my 3rd pet is a ranged crowd controller, and my zombies and to some extent my knights die a bit to easy. Have killed one or two AV's solo but guess all MM's can do that.
Now with tanking in mind, (solo, team, PvE, PvP, against big groups, against AV's, all of it), what combination do you think would be able to take the most damage before face planting? Im thinking Thugs with either /poison or /forcefield but not sure, the traps poison trap looks great aswell.
Bots/FF are i classic i suppose due to the stacked forcefields, but a bit to FotM so hope you will all say its something else :P