Scrapper v Stalker what am I doing wrong?

Barricade · 07-19-2007 08:12 PM

Not much experience with PvP but my inital impression is that you haven't got much of a chance against Stalkers even a melee class like Scrappers.

I'm a MA/SR with loads of IOs with stealth pool and combat jumping with defense buffs in each.

I get the drop on a stalker picking on a controller who's got them mezzed.

I focus chi and get them down to about 5% health in about 30-45 secs before I'm unable to hit them which I guess is placate, but I can still partially see them for a few seconds.

a couple of mins later with all my toggles running, the above powers active and a couple of purples I get AS'd then quickly finished off within a couple of secs as I had no insps left.

Now my build is for PvE, but I thought SR scrappers had a bonus to spot kidden stalkers?

So I'm fighting the urge to shout "NERF STALKERS!!1!!" and asking what should I have done differently to beat them?

Hammerfall · 07-19-2007 08:33 PM

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I focus chi and get them down to about 5% health in about 30-45 secs before I'm unable to hit them which I guess is placate, but I can still partially see them for a few seconds.

[/ QUOTE ] Whenever you get placated its a good idea to be somewhere else as they can fire a critical right then and there. Criticals are unresistable damage. Although in this case he propably used it just to get away.

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a couple of mins later with all my toggles running, the above powers active and a couple of purples I get AS'd then quickly finished off within a couple of secs as I had no insps left.

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Sounds like you encountered the strawberry-flavored fotm EM stalker.

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Now my build is for PvE, but I thought SR scrappers had a bonus to spot kidden stalkers?

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They do in focused senses, but it needs to be stacked with something else like tactics, yellow insps to be of practical value. sonic and empath defenders/controllers can put you to perception cap on their own(clear mind or clarity). But that cap is less safe than most people think. Usually enough to foil the plans of most stalkers in sirens call though. In sirens call you can also buy the goggle temp power from the shop that increases your perception.

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So I'm fighting the urge to shout "NERF STALKERS!!1!!" and asking what should I have done differently to beat them?

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Dont stand still. Let them come outof hide on their own, either by frustration or when they attack someone else. As SR youd only be in relative safety when running elude, and even then theres a chance they will hit you (theres an accolade that will give huge acc bonus, once every 20 minutes). The proper /SR stalkerhunter scrappers are usually superjumping somewhere in 200m height waiting to spot stalkers with their stacked tactics+focused senses. They arent hanging around chitchatting

Rule number one against stalkers: KEEP MOVING. Although EM stalkers are the only kind who get to twoshot things without using assassin strike, movement is always the best defense.

Whenever they are out of hide is time to attack. When you cant see them, an EM stalker can two shot most things except tankers and scrappers running dull pain or similar +hp power.

ps. 'You say loads of def buffs from IOs'. Unfortunately, if they are things like '+2% def (energy) they are useless to you. This is because out of two options, situational(like melee)/typed(like energy) defense value only the best value is used to calculate toHit. So if enemy uses an energy melee attack, the higher of the def(melee) and def(energy) would be used to calculate whether he hits. You would need IO bonuses like "+def(melee) and +def(ranged) to help you because:

The SR toggles/passives offer situational defense, and no way the typed def bonuses from some IO sets would ever top the values your secondary powers give, so the game will always use just your normal powers for calculating defense in practise. Of course, you might have 5-6 of each set and have situational defense bonuses, which ARE helpful.. Just wanted to bring this difference between situational and typed defense to you.

Barricade · 07-20-2007 05:44 AM

Cool, thanks for the info. So as I understand it, if a Stalker gets the drop on you, you're pretty much dead and if you stay still long enough, you're dead and if you try and kill them, they can stop you attacking?

No one else think this is overpowered?

X_treme · 07-20-2007 05:57 AM

not in the slightest

Alvan · 07-20-2007 06:03 AM

They're way too one-trick ponies to be overpowered. They play a mean game when they're against something that can't take them out, but are in trouble vs. some other enemies.

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Shockwave_EU · 07-20-2007 06:11 AM

Nope thats how a stalker should be, it just means that when fighting a stalker you have to think about what your doing rather than hit all you power attacks while standing still, and that imo is the problem with people who are new to pvp changing how you think, you may have the best build in the world for pve but fighting another player rather than an npc is a whole different ball game.
Also dont forget stalkers cant stand toe to toe with some AT for long so they have to use what they have.

X_treme · 07-20-2007 07:05 AM

do u have all ur power slotted for defence? i havent used SR but i wud have thought a stalker wud struggle to hit u unless he uses build up. remember u can still hear stalkers even if u cant see them, if u hear build up then run. or if ur trying to get 1 out of hiding stand in some water and watch for ripples.

i'd say pick up maneuvres for the extra def and tactics for the extra perception.

Hammerfall · 07-20-2007 07:54 AM

Yes, there are multiple small tricks that help. You can still hear the sound of build up when he is hidden next to you and preparing AS. If that happens, jump away or at least prepare with your selfheal (SR should have aid self for pvp anyway,although not cnecessarily at sirens lvls) or respites. Important thing is to jump away so he wont get a second attack off (you cannot be oneshotted in pvp in practise, there is a code to prevent that. At best you will go to 1 hp) and you can quickly heal. EM has horribly fast activation times though.. Once his hide is shot, his damage potential goes down a lot, unless he uses placate again. But then placate has a relatively long recharge, so if he placates you, and attacks immediately again, he cannot use placate for the second time for about 30 secs... thens your time to counterattack.

Stalkers also cannot hide the splashes and ripples in the water that their feets cause even if they are hidden.

Often battle in a stalker-infested pvp zone will reduce to nothing if everyone just keeps jumping around not allowing stalkers chance to strike, but stalkers are still hidden, so nothing happens for a long time.. eventually someones nerve will break.

Ps. one favorite trick of mine.. Go to warburg and get the hyperphase temp power by doing a patrol there. Then go to sirens call, jump around waiting until you know there are stalkers about (can see with /whoall) then activate hyperphase and land and stand still

7 times out of 10 a stalker will come and try to AS you (best is to do it in the water so you even see non-flying stalkers come to you). When AS fires and is ineffective, drop hyperphase and pounce him! lol. Ok this wont work on better PVPers but is hella funny when it works.

pps. It is possible to interrupt assassin strike after its activation by breaking line of sight because its interruptable. Dont see it happen often these days though. If you ever have enough perception to see a stalker come to you and try to AS, just hit him with your fastest attack and interrupt it.

Majestick · 07-20-2007 09:18 AM

This is exactly what I did with my MA regen scrapper the other week. After a few minutes of dancing around the area, I stood still long enough for him to fire off AS, hit a heal, hit him a couple of times, hit another heal, stunned him with the flight strikey thing (at work - sorry) just as he went invis, popped a yellow but still couldn't see him, hit him with the aoe sweep (dragon's tail?) which I was very pleased about, then he mezz'd me. Think he got greedy here and wanted to try a quick finish, but my heals were back up - repeated cycle - I aced him. Bit of luck but felt rewarding

Power_Doll · 07-20-2007 09:32 AM

Nice had a similar thing with an AoE. I just knew a stalker was around. I used 3 or 4 yellows I think and then hit invoke panic, he came out of hide and looked real scared :P Knockout blow tastes so much better when you got em feared

Extremus · 07-20-2007 11:20 AM

The biggest rule when fighting Stalkers if you've already got some +Perc, is Break Frees. They'll break Placate.

Shadow_Sword · 07-20-2007 11:24 AM

All Scrappers Can increase their chances, and some have naturally better defenses, for example -

Regens can use Dull Pain so that the AS doesnt do too much

Spines can use Quills to reveal the stalker

Dark Armor has its Toggle PBAoE like Quills

SR have Focused Sense +perception

And even if your not one of these, their are other things you can do :-

Tactics - get the leadership pool

Caltrops - Doesnt seem like much, but it has saved me from stalkers before - if you want to stand still, surround yourself with Caltrops

Focused Accuracy - if you are an SR and you take tactics as well, as far as i know you have a pretty good chance of seeing a lot of stalkers

Run your PBAoE now and again - for example Lotus Drops, Dragon's Tail or Spine Burst - you never know what might be waiting behind you, ive been lucky with Lotus Drops a few times.

The one thing i do know is nerfing Stalkers isnt the way forward - they need something good to count for their low hitpoints.

X_treme · 07-20-2007 11:30 AM

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The biggest rule when fighting Stalkers if you've already got some +Perc, is Break Frees. They'll break Placate.

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nice, i didnt no that. that the same rule for clear mind too?

Graventite__EU · 07-20-2007 01:17 PM

Clear Mind doesn't do anything to Placate, but the Placate bug means that if the Stalker has had an effect on you (such as the defence debuff from Ninja Blade or the Stun from Total Focus) and Placates, you can still target them.

Also if a Stalker is confused they become perma-hidden and always hit Criticals, lovely.

Serio · 07-20-2007 01:41 PM

my BS/regen particularly likes fighting stalkers. With FA+tactics I love getting the drop on them.

Extremus · 07-20-2007 09:42 PM

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The biggest rule when fighting Stalkers if you've already got some +Perc, is Break Frees. They'll break Placate.

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nice, i didnt no that. that the same rule for clear mind too?

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Sometimes it seems to freak out and need two BF's for some reason, but they may've fixed that. :\

Hammerfall · 07-22-2007 03:29 PM

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The biggest rule when fighting Stalkers if you've already got some +Perc, is Break Frees. They'll break Placate.

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nice, i didnt no that. that the same rule for clear mind too?

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Sometimes it seems to freak out and need two BF's for some reason, but they may've fixed that. :\

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You are just special, extremus.

Blue_Note · 07-22-2007 05:58 PM

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...Also if a Stalker is confused they become perma-hidden and always hit Criticals, lovely.

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Oh yes lovely indeed... Thumbs up to the mind and plant domis out there as well as the mind and ill trollers. Or ice trollers running AA (to decrease stealth)