Is there anyone who actually likes the PPP AoEs?
By
Estarriol_EU,
Posted on: 2007-05-05 09:30 in Dominators
Everyone knows PPP's are pants. I wont be holding my breath waiting for any change though. And dom snipes, I would trade mine in for a half decent shield or a self heal.
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Fiend Space: 211464
There are duff powers in every set, how about Salt Crystals (a PBAoE Sleep) in Earth Mastery for tanks?
As far as doms go, patron powers have one real stinker which is Soul Mastery, the others all have their good points, Mu Mastery being great value.
I don't know of any power being removed and changed for another since I've been playing.
Dominator Dark Obliteration
32.53 negative_Energy Damage per target
Maximum targets hit is 16.
520.48 Total for 18.98 endurance points.(works out better than whirling hands btw)
Dominator Total Focus
41.71 Smashing Damage
106.77 Energy Damage
148.48 Total damage for 18.51 per target
Maximum targets hit = 1 so total damage is 148.48
Dark Obliteration is capable of doing 372 more damage to a group for almost the same endurance points but in a faster action time.
Problem: team dynamics or soloing doesnt make dark obliteration useful to you as you need to be able to safely hit a certain number at a time to get a useful benefit. You only needed to hit 5 to get the equivalent of Total Focus damage to a group for same endurance cost but with the additional benefits of a faster action time.
Second Problem: Recharge time of Dark Obliteration sucks abit but in damage over time terms if you could hit 16 with it every 32 seconds its awesome damage over time versus groups as well as tohit debuffs but to match total focus damage to group over time you have to onlt hit on average about 6.
In answer to your question yes there is one person.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[u]@Shannon[u]
It makes no sense because we already have attacks in our Assault sets, and we do not need a wannabe-Fireball that does measly damage because of our .65 ranged modifier. It's like giving Scrappers a low damage melee attack with a very small cone and double the recharge and more endurance. Dominators would've needed a self-heal instead, like Ghost Widow would've given Dark Regeneration (even if it had 2x recharge, being then 60 seconds, it wouldn't be so bad, really.) but instead we were given a weak AoE that shows no pracictal use. That "Total Focus damage" doesn't show up on a mostly ST damage AT because the mobs can regenerate that damage. It isn't worth it either because of the huge recharge, and it saps your endurance. The only thing that it has going for us is that we can slot Ranged AoE inventions in it, but that's about it.
[u]@Filth:[u]
Salt Pillars sure are a pants power, because it can be broken by a damage taunt aura and it has low duration. It however, did not get a recharge debuff like many, if not every single PPP power. If Brutes would've gotten Salt Pillars in a way or another, it would have a 180 second recharge, without a question. The Earth Mastery set is also going for controls, rather than ranged damage or self buffs. The immobilize could've been AoE aswell, but it being single target, I don't see it being much more useful. Also, now you're comparing a single pants power to a pants power which ALL Dominators get, which is not fair IMO. Stalkers' snipes are utterly worthless with their ranged modifier and most pets are just for the "ooh a pet"-factor and do not pose much help, other than taking alpha, which I believe is not the main usage of this power, as it being 15 minutes.
I hope that the devs are going to buff the PPPs step by step just like they did with Trick Arrow and Dominators. As we don't get stuff like FA, Hibernate, PBU or Power Boost to our Corruptors/Masterminds, Conserve Power, Force of Nature, etc. we deserve a superior version of what we already have. I mean, those were taught by real supervillains, supervillains with PToD and high regen and strong attacks, and they are level 54. I propose that the current PPPs would stay the same, but pump them with steroids and nasty secondary effects. The pets could be replaced aswell, with global pets, so that every AT that picks the same PPP gets the same pet, which should be stronger that what we have now, they being our level 47 powers, our ultimate powers. They should be the ultimate support force available each 15 minutes.
"noo but then u have stalkors and bufs it not fair" 
The self-buffs for heroes and villains are doubled when they are in the Ancillary/Patron Powers. Check out Consume for Controllers or Dark Consumption for Defenders - both 360s, same for villains.
Earth Mastery is mostly about control compared to the other tank mastery sets, but in fact Stalagmites *is* a ranged AoE damage power not a control power.
Shannon's comparison is not a reasonable one! Even with the poor ranged modifier, it does not compare well to any of the dominator AoE or cone attacks. I don't think it's a *terrible* power though, it's just not as good as the area attacks dominators already have - so it is strange to get another one in the patron pool. It does depend how much AoE damage you want to do, if you wanted to boost this then one of those attacks might be OK.
I think the problem with the dominator patron pools is the limited choice - Mu is significantly better than the others. All patron pets should have the same recharge as standard pets and they should not expire. Possibly some of them should have their abilities buffed.
If Cryptic were to change things like the recharge in the patron pools, they would have to revise all the hero epics as well since they have the same problem.
It's that not all powers in the APPs were rechargenerfed, like Power Boost (120 sec Dom vs. 120 sec Controller) or Force of Nature (1000 seconds, like other godmodes)
It is reasonable depending on who you team with. I have a firetank who AoEs and goes thru mobs fast by the numbers. I unleash hell with it and fireball would still be lovely as it stacks with my other AoEs offering better xp/time. In CoV you would ideally hit 16 at once with your aoes but rare is a brute gonna be able to get that, live thru it or even bother gonna trying, or 2 brutes together but still even when hitting 9 at a time is still a worthwhile aoe to stack with others. If you PVP then dont bother. If its anarchy ftw in teams then dont bother with any aoe until u have control.
And even Salt Crystals has its uses so
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Salt Crystals are great! if, you know, no one on the team uses AoEs. 
[ QUOTE ]
Salt Crystals are great! if, you know, no one on the team uses AoEs.
[/ QUOTE ]
I used to love my Earth set and salt crystals 
. Always a handy panic button when the **** hits the fan.
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
Disagree that ALL PPP Dominator powers aren't any good.
Black Scorpions Poison Ray is IMO very nice. Great defense debuff, nice res debuff and goes very well in an attack chain with AIM and the boost from Domination (specially when my Decimation Build Up proc' on Thorn Barrage triggers ).
I find the Scorpion Shield pretty useful too.
Shame about the AOE, yes. I'd love another good cone or AOE on top of Fling Thorns and Thornburst seemed so underwhelming when I tried it.
The Black Scorpion pet... that's a different, much much worse story 
.
PPP powers on their own are ok I guess, compare them to hero epics and they are a complete joke, mini tier 9s in hibernate and force of nature? crazy tohit buffs? powerboost AND build up in one? No thanks, I want a crappy pet that I can use for 4 minutes out of every 15......
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
For my dominator I had to compare her tier 9 Psychic Shockwave and Ball Lightning. I could not help but notice that Ball Lightning had a smaller radius, more than three times the recharge time and ca. 20% less damage per target hit for almost double the endurance consumption per use.
Really hard to decide...
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
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Salt Crystals are great! if, you know, no one on the team uses AoEs.
[/ QUOTE ]
1) It's a 14% (from memory) defense debuff in a big AoE.
2) It's not a bad panic button if a second group gets aggroed.
3) It's a huge AoE and will often keep stragglers slept even with fireballs going off.
4) Not every single high-level team is Mass AoE Death Chaos. OK, 90% of them are, but that other 10% finds a good use for powers like this.
Salt Crystals are worth their salt.
Oh, and I'll add #5 - it's very good for soloing in hazard zones!
[ QUOTE ]
For my dominator I had to compare her tier 9 Psychic Shockwave and Ball Lightning. I could not help but notice that Ball Lightning had a smaller radius, more than three times the recharge time and ca. 20% less damage per target hit for almost double the endurance consumption per use.
Really hard to decide...
[/ QUOTE ]
think you missed my point, PPPs have nothing that can compare to tier 9s while heroe squishies have hibernate, personal force feild, force of nature and even a once again perma mez protection power. PPPs dont have anything that compares with tier 2s let alone anything good.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
Hmm, the AoE blasts work great as AoE taunts.
Except that I get a better one in a pool.
Except that the AoE immob that 4/5 of the control sets get is way better at that, too.
To be serious, I think none of the current PPPs should be deleted or changed. Instead, they should add more of them (and those should be comparable to APPs.) I'm not talking about more patrons, because that'd be too much work (wouldn't it?) I think it's easier to add a pile of good powers than reworking the patrons entirely.
The power trees would extend lower down, and they should work off just like Kheldians do, instead of getting 1 power choice at 44, you'd get, say, 2.
The final power should be the ultimate power (compare Doms smeagly pet to Controllers PB.) Although, the final powers (as there would be 2) should be comparable to eachother, say, a godmode and then a pet. To make the pet power comparable, it should have a whole squad of 'em Arachnos flunkies, I mean, you beat their leader, it's only the right thing that you get to command a whole squad of them, and I'm not talking about the weak Spiderlings Stalkers get, the squad should have a boss, a lieut and 3 minions. Now that's a 49-power.
I've had some ideas for new Patron Powers, I have some but here's one for the Leviathan pool.
Red Tide
Mastery of the sea has enlighted you with calling the fierce predators: the sharks. Upon commanding these 3-5 Spirit Sharks (number varies), they close up on their targets and rips them apart, while Holding them. The Sharks can be destroyed, but they have Stealth and can only be seen at close range. After causing enough bloodloss, they vanish.
You could see their fins when they close, and the Killer Shark tune would play 
Oh and LOTS and LOTS of blood !
[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:[/color]<hr />
The self-buffs for heroes and villains are doubled when they are in the Ancillary/Patron Powers
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Not all of them.
Dom powerboost : 120s.
Controller epic PB : 120s.
Defender psionic tornado : 20s.
Controller epic psy tornado : 20s.
(Ok, not a self-buff, but since we're talking about AoE powers doms get on a 2x recharge, I think it's interesting)
Conserve power in any secondary : 600s.
CP in any epic : 600s.
Earth's embrace (tank primary, brute secondary) : 360s.
Earth's embrace, controller epic : 360s.
See a pattern ? Hero epics are broken, especially controllers'.
Brutes, scrappers, stalkers and tankers get melee modifiers on their ranged epic abilities. One more standard AoE isn't exactly game-breaking for doms, especially with the low modifier doms have.
I think a reasonable change would be to divide its recharge by 2. I'd love to see another power in its place, but I don't see it happening.
Now, I wouldn't be surprised if Defenders did more damage than Corruptors.
Oh...
They do.
Seriously, they just suck compared to our Assault powers with AoE damage. I can't understand why the devs put a power that can't increase our damage output by much, not to mention it's horrible recharge and endurance consumation. None of the PPPs should have a "skippable" power that only a small margin of people take.
As much as with the question "Does anyone like the snipes?" of course some do, they are big orange numbers, especially Blazing Bolt coupled with FE and Domination's damage boost. IMO the snipes are bad to be obtained at 35 because that's when most Doms are pretty solid, and can control the enemies instead of pulling & dealing with one at a time. I would hand over a whole list of ways how to improve the Assault sets (Especially /Nrg)
If the PPP AoE powers were changed, or replaced with a much more useful power, would people whine? "Hey that power was the reason I lived!" Many have also said that powers can only be buffed, not replaced. I know that Fold Space was changed into something else in the Gravity Control set, but that's only heartell.
Some AoE-centric Doms might like the AoEs the PPP-sets offer, but it doesn't change the fact that they are too weak for their recharge and endurance. (A ranged weak Dominator ranged scale Ball Lightning with Total Focus endurance usage? I'll be happy with Whirling Hands instead, which also suck)
I haven't heard anyone say "I love the AoE blast from the Doms PPP" so it could, and SHOULD be changed into a much more useful power, but what kind of a power?