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But less effective.
[/ QUOTE ]Taking taunt would also make me less effective in things other than aggro conytrol. And since I can control aggro fine, I can't see a reason to take it.
[/ QUOTE ]As if only one attack could radically change the damage you deal. When you take taunt you leave 1 weak power slot to have it. So if your do not take taunt you just have 1 more weak/mid attack...
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I have never, ever come across a tank that can keep aggro off me as a WS with just attacks and auras, never.
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You're free to make a character on Vigilance and tell me, if I'm on. My global is the same as my forum name, although I didn't play my tank for months.
Unless you charge/shoot before the tank, I can't see how can you steal aggro from any decent tank. 
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And your point is wrong. If the player couldn't keep aggro without taunt, they're a bad tank, and propably wouldn't be able to keep the aggro properly even if they did have taunt.
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While it's true, there's one good point about Taunt, almost any bad player can press taunt over and over and hold some aggro, while managing aggro with gauntlet and smart positionning isn't something your average PuG tanker will think about. Taunt allows for some brainless aggro management. 
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So if your do not take taunt you just have 1 more weak/mid attack...
[/ QUOTE ]My weakest attack (Apart for the 1st attack that I cant drop) is Beheader, which does about the same amount of damage (Actual damage, not BI) than blaster T2 attacks (Power Blast, Aimed shot etc.), hardly a weak attack. There's simply no room in my build for taunt before L49.
I feel a certain thread is getting resurrected....
Anyway....
My 2 inf...
100% aggro control without taunt is entirely possible under these circumstances...
*ahem*
1. Team knows what its doing (i.e. generally wait for tank to gather aggro first). This is THE most important point.
2. Mainly melee enemies
3. Non teleporting enemies
4. You are not a granite / stone tank
5. You arent facing an AV
If these situations are fufilled, you can still grab a goodly proportion of the aggro... 90%+ I would say...
However, if you dont have taunt, you will be in a shed load of trouble maintaing aggro in these circumstances:
1. You are a fire tank and face the circle of thorns
2. You aggro a second group / patrol (and yes, this does happen more and more often even in good groups).
3. You face primarily / mainly ranged enemies (Cabal in particular spring to mind).
Finally, one observation I have made...
Whilst 100% aggro can be maintained with or without taunt (and noting the above), game speed is faster with taunt. It simply speeds up movement from one mob to another as less time is needed to cluster enemies together into AoE goodness. Why? because taunt is ranged... outliers come to you, not the otherway round. This isnt of course needed if you pull round corners... but that is slower aswell. IMO even if you argue that taunt isnt needed to maintain aggro (something I dont think you can say for all situations), taunt nevertheless speeds things up.
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I don't actually attack, but rather zip from mob to mob with SS and catch them with CE.
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This method probably only works for Chilling Embrace because of its very fast tick rate ( 0.5s ). For some reason they changed Invincibility to 1s from 0.5s, I think they stated performance so it may be they make Chilling embrace less fast in the future too ( unless they already have ). All the other auras ( Mud Pots, Blazing Aura and Icicles ) have a 2 second tick.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
Tankers with taunt have greater flexibility than those without and its a fact, without it being just in terms of pulling that foe of someone whose 70ft away.
You are potentially safer with a tanker with taunt than one without.
All of my tankers are alot more survivable with taunt than without.
As a squishie i will adapt my play to whatever tank is in the team.
People have the right to choose for themselves and you all have the right to choose to team with them or not.
Nofutures statement of gauntlet duration being 13.5 seconds base is meaningless with different types of mobs of different levels having different resistances in terms of duration to taunt plus subject to level modification. It also puts attacks all having the same duration and people accept them without testing them.
I like this but wish there was more:Circeus
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13) Duration and AoE for Gauntlet are hard coded but vary from power to power using the End costs and/or Levels (Tier) of the powers as a guideline, but not a hard and fast rule because there are exceptions. Example: Total Focus has a radius that is 50% larger than Energy Transfer.
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Duration and AoE are subject to either the end cost of a power or tier level of one or both the end costs and tier with some exceptions.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
And taunt is a real life saving power when it comes to pvp
PvP auras are useless well most primary power taunts that is and gauntlets are subject to chance and then vary in duration but ultimately poo and taunt is the daddy!
So much so in my experience, i look at PVP scrappers and think "how could you not take taunt?" but i think we all have a different visualisation on things. I know i do in PVE. There is how i want to see somit done and there is how it gets done.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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IIRC you are right. The taunt duration is the same for every attack. It´s the taunt radius that changes with the power of the attack in question.
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It had been a long day and I'd glanced at the PvP taunt duration on a couple of powers by accident. My bad. 
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. Can you give me a link to city of data please?
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I think gauntlet duration depends on attack power. Low level attacks have about 6 seconds, the heavy hitters are 13.5 but have a recharge duration about the same length. So says city of data anyway.
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nofuture says all are the same.
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IIRC you are right. The taunt duration is the same for every attack. It´s the taunt radius that changes with the power of the attack in question.
Furthermore, IIRC City of Data and NoFuture are basically used synonymously.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.