Question is, did the teams suffer through their lack of taunt? Taunt is good but having it doesn't make a good tank. 
The team didnt suffer that much, I did tho, since he couldnt keep aggro off me. It did mean some debt and then me holding back on the damage, which means gimp.
My point is: if they had taunt I could let go and blow the [censored] out of everything. Without taunt it took that much longer to kill stuff, since I and I am sure the blasters also had to.
So short answer is yes.
@Boerewors
Many tanker builds are extremely tight and taking taunt can mean making a sacrifice. Personally I like taunt and I think it's worth the cost, but that cost can be a serious shortage of attack powers so I can see why people choose to skip it.
Most skranker builds are very tight.
Taunt is one power, one slot. Its kind of difficult to miss if you really care about the team IMO - I certainly get it at level 10 every time and mourn the days when you could get it a level 6.
A tauntless tank can, if skilled, pull it off (easier if ice primary or fire secondary i would have thought) most of the time. Put the tank against the cabal and he will be about as usefull as George W. Bush as president of the USA...
oh, hang on... 
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My point is: if they had taunt I could let go and blow the [censored] out of everything.
[/ QUOTE ]And your point is wrong. If the player couldn't keep aggro without taunt, they're a bad tank, and propably wouldn't be able to keep the aggro properly even if they did have taunt.
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Put the tank against the cabal and he will be about as usefull as George W. Bush as president of the USA...
[/ QUOTE ]I'd rather not take a power just for a group that you need to fight in...what, 4 missions?
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Put the tank against the cabal and he will be about as usefull as George W. Bush as president of the USA...
[/ QUOTE ]I'd rather not take a power just for a group that you need to fight in...what, 4 missions?
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I use taunt in every single mission, repeatedly, myself. But then Im not satisfied with receiving anything less than 90% of aggro.
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Put the tank against the cabal and he will be about as usefull as George W. Bush as president of the USA...
[/ QUOTE ]I'd rather not take a power just for a group that you need to fight in...what, 4 missions?
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I use taunt in every single mission, repeatedly, myself. But then Im not satisfied with receiving anything less than 90% of aggro.
[/ QUOTE ]I keep nearly 100% aggro without taunt. Only time I've had problems without it was the croatoa TF, with the cabal AV and her companions. (Of course, that was when AV's were unaffected by gauntlet and auras).
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Most skranker builds are very tight.
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I wouldn't know about that, but taking taunt early on with my ice tanker meant having an "attack chain" of Jab and Haymaker until my mid to late twenties. That was without taking anything frivilous or extraneous, just the powers I felt I needed to tank. I can see why someone might have said "Gee, I'd rather have punch".
I think it's easy to fit taunt on by the later levels but early on and right through the mid game, tanker builds are exceptionally tight, or at least they have been for the sets I have experience of, which are ice/ and fire/.
Later on choices are more plentiful, but so are options for getting monster's attention at range. If you're a /stone tanker you might be satisfied with the gauntleted hurl boulder you can get at 28. I don't know if epic pools get the gauntlet effect or not but they offer ranged attacks and even some AoEs.
I think there is quite some difference in a scranker and a tauntless tanker. As for my fire-tanker, there is nearly no space in the powerset (with still be able to solo) to fit every power asap.
I've teamed with scrankers, Inv tankers with max 2 toggles and rest are all attacks, perma-rage etc. Specialy ice tankers seem to go this way, since 'everyone' say they are master of agro.
The epics do give gauntlet, but unsure if it gives the same effect as normal powers. (i got full earth epic on my granite).
If i join a team that already did several missions with their tauntless tanker, i adept and join them. Each AT can change tactics, likewise several teams dont even need a tanker to finish their missions.
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I have never, ever come across a tank that can keep aggro off me as a WS with just attacks and auras, never. I dont play blasters but I routinely see tanks lose aggro on blasters nuking when they dont have taunt.
I just dont see how you can do it. Please invite me sometime to see this in action.
The only way I can see it happening is if you run into a spawn and whack away at them for at least 20 seconds before your team starts nuking.
@Boerewors
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I have never, ever come across a tank that can keep aggro off me as a WS with just attacks and auras, never. I dont play blasters but I routinely see tanks lose aggro on blasters nuking when they dont have taunt.
[/ QUOTE ]Whether the blaster is using a nuke or a low-power AoE doesn't make a difference. As long as the targets are affected by a taunt effect (Which gauntlet is), they will focus only on the source of the taunt effect, no matter how much damage is dealt to them.
All the tank needs to do is to keep the enemies grouped well enough so that they can all be affected by his aura.
At level 50 the taunt from an aura is 13.5 seconds. It's about half that for Gauntlet from attacks. So say a level 40 tank facing +3/4 mobs, you are looking at the taunt lasting 6 seconds maybe from the aura and only a couple from gauntlet? Mobs scattered by a nuke like Nova will likely take about that long to get back up by which point the taunt may well have worn off and they will turn on the Blaster. It's the tanks job to get aggro back on those mobs.
I agree with Max that you won't pull aggro off the tank for anything still in the aura unless you are facing much higher level mobs with no taunt slotted.
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Put the tank against the cabal and he will be about as usefull as George W. Bush as president of the USA...
[/ QUOTE ]I'd rather not take a power just for a group that you need to fight in...what, 4 missions?
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I use taunt in every single mission, repeatedly, myself. But then Im not satisfied with receiving anything less than 90% of aggro.
[/ QUOTE ]I keep nearly 100% aggro without taunt. Only time I've had problems without it was the croatoa TF, with the cabal AV and her companions. (Of course, that was when AV's were unaffected by gauntlet and auras).
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So can I, in a team that knows what its doing and takes care.
I thought gauntlet taunt duration was the same as that from a taunt aura. The main difference is the taunt aura ticks every 0.5 to 2 seconds ( depending on the aura ) so it is very effective at keeping aggro.
I really like taunt as a power, it's base duration is way larger than the gauntlet effect. It is possible to tank without taunt but it is harder than with it*. It's a sweeping generalisation but the players who don't take taunt are more likely to be the kind who don't take responsibility for the aggro.
* With clever use of gauntlet and being able to switch targets fast, CJ + hurdle + a quick attack like jab is good for this.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
I think gauntlet duration depends on attack power. Low level attacks have about 6 seconds, the heavy hitters are 13.5 but have a recharge duration about the same length. So says city of data anyway. 
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I have never, ever come across a tank that can keep aggro off me as a WS with just attacks and auras, never
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One word: Knockbacks.
Even with taunts, trying to aim the cone of a taunt to hit the mob you just scattered in every direction of the compass is not guaranteed or easy.
The tank isn't playing to your strengths unless he has taunt? Maybe.
You aren't playing to his/her strenths by your knockbacks continually throwing foes out of his/her agro aura? Definitely.
All of my tanks take taunt. But I still hate teaming with (most) energy blasters because they are continually making my job far harder, and the team as a whole often does better without them.
Most PBs and WSs have enough game experience to know what they are risking with knockbacks, and have the skill to compensate, and the understanding not to whinge if they miscalculate. Not all however. Some think it is all down to the tank to do the impossible because they have no idea how to work with tanks effectively.
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Taunt is a must have for every tankers, as well for pve or pvp purpose. Monsters are oftenly spreaded and if you don't have a real ranged taunt power (don't tell me that "hurl" is a good taunt power: too slow, too long recharge and taunt effect too short) you'll have to jump around and hit every mob to keep aggro.
To be "a Skranker" is a bad reason for not taking taunt, unless you are not a fiery aura tanker you'll never deal as much damage as a scrapper and your aggro capacity will be far from it could be with taunt.
I had a invul/SS without taunt (a real skranker) and I tought I was a good tanker until I started a fire/SS with taunt. My fire tanker deals really much more damage than the other one and keeps the aggro on him way better (even without blazing aura!). The Skranker do not exists, bad Damage dealer and bad aggro keeper.
@Faultline
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I think gauntlet duration depends on attack power. Low level attacks have about 6 seconds, the heavy hitters are 13.5 but have a recharge duration about the same length. So says city of data anyway.
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nofuture says all are the same. 
. Can you give me a link to city of data please?
@kimuji[ QUOTE ]
To be "a Skranker" is a bad reason for not taking taunt, ...
I had a invul/SS without taunt (a real skranker) and I tought I was a good tanker until I started a fire/SS with taunt. My fire tanker deals really much more damage than the other one and keeps the aggro on him way better (even without blazing aura!). The Skranker do not exists, bad Damage dealer and bad aggro keeper.
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Inv tankers are always going to be poor damage tankers. With no Aura they really miss out in damage output. A well slotted damage aura does more damage in a session than any other power in my experience ( measured using Herostats ).
As for Scrankers do not exist, as an ideal/optimal choice, you are probably right. In reality people play their toons as they want and you are always going to find scrankers. This is especially true as some sets like Superstrength are much more satifying than the scrapper sets, despite doing less damage.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
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Taunt is a must have for every tankers, as well for pve or pvp purpose. Monsters are oftenly spreaded and if you don't have a real ranged taunt power (don't tell me that "hurl" is a good taunt power: too slow, too long recharge and taunt effect too short) you'll have to jump around and hit every mob to keep aggro.
[/ QUOTE ]Which is what you have travel powers for. Tanking without taunt is possible, and it isn't all that hard either.
But less effective.
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Which is what you have travel powers for. Tanking without taunt is possible, and it isn't all that hard either.
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I agree that you can ( for instance ) CJ + Hurdle + Jab + Jump back almost as fast as a taunt, because I do it. However I can't remember seeing another tanker do a cross spawn jump attack, so I think it a is fairly rare. I usually only do it for a laugh ( because it is in character ), or if Taunt is not recharged.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
I don't actually attack, but rather zip from mob to mob with SS and catch them with CE.
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But less effective.
[/ QUOTE ]Taking taunt would also make me less effective in things other than aggro conytrol. And since I can control aggro fine, I can't see a reason to take it.
5 out of 5 teams on various chars this week and every time in each the tank doesnt have taunt. Is there a conspiracy on the go?
Do tanks now think that gauntlet is fine, they dont need taunt anymore?
@Boerewors