Deceive and Flash are they worth it?


Amazing_Shnyet

 

Posted

I'm trying to build up my ill/storm controller but after reading a few posts i'm not sure if i really need these? Was thinking of waiting for Group invis, freezing rain and phantom army. In the meantime i've got swift, recall friend and 1st flight pool power. Are they needed?

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Posted

Deceive is certainly worth it. Great power.

For a Illusion / Storm I find Flash handy for flash & Freezing Rain combos or as a panic button. You've no immobs so its the only thing you've got.

Why Teleport & Flight pools? At low levels I never see a point in taking 2 powers that are basically useless for combat.


 

Posted

I took teleport friend just as a team support thing as i'm usually leader and it saves time wasting away in the hollows. Flight is my choice of travel. Cheers for quick response, i had flash and respected out of it.Is it worth getting rid of blind then on my next respec? is there any point in having blind and flash?


 

Posted

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I took teleport friend just as a team support thing as i'm usually leader and it saves time wasting away in the hollows. Flight is my choice of travel. Cheers for quick response, i had flash and respected out of it.Is it worth getting rid of blind then on my next respec? is there any point in having blind and flash?

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You certainly want Blind, its your Bread and Butter power. Of the two drop Flash I'd say. You need Blind, its my most used power.

Basically I wouldn't take Recall Friend unless I'm taking Teleport (which I did, but with no Hover). Illusion / Storm is a tight build and the Hollows only last 10 levels. Once you hit 14 people won't need TPs as much, or at all really, they'll have their own Travel powers.

Flash IS the weakest of all AOE Hold powers, and I use PAs, Spectral Terror & Blind as my Control powers mostly. But I like having Flash. Comes in useful with Freezing Rain, as mentioned above, and in the late game when you come across enemies that are immune to Fear & Confusion its handy to have.

It's not critical though if you want Recall Friend for concept, of blind, deceive & flash I'd drop Flash.


 

Posted

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Flash IS the weakest of all AOE Hold powers

[/ QUOTE ]Is it? To my knowledge it's no worse than cinders or glacier.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Flash IS the weakest of all AOE Hold powers

[/ QUOTE ]Is it? To my knowledge it's no worse than cinders or glacier.

[/ QUOTE ]
Joint weakest is still weakest

According to NoFuture its the slowest of the three to activate, all other things being equal that makes it weaker. Certainly it takes longer to trigger than Cinders.


 

Posted

bha i think all aoe hold powers need a buff... they are weak, slow, bad acc and bad duration.... totally helpless in every builds


 

Posted

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Flash IS the weakest of all AOE Hold powers

[/ QUOTE ]Is it? To my knowledge it's no worse than cinders or glacier.

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All the AoE holds are good (Volcanic Gasses is a special one though). None weaker than others.

The only differences is whether theyre PBAoE, ranged and the animation times (with the exception of Volcanic Gasses).


SingStar:
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CRACK68:
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Lionsbane:
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Posted

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bha i think all aoe hold powers need a buff... they are weak, slow, bad acc and bad duration.... totally helpless in every builds

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Pardon me?? I find them great and amazing atm


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Flash IS the weakest of all AOE Hold powers

[/ QUOTE ]Is it? To my knowledge it's no worse than cinders or glacier.

[/ QUOTE ]
Joint weakest is still weakest

According to NoFuture its the slowest of the three to activate, all other things being equal that makes it weaker. Certainly it takes longer to trigger than Cinders.

[/ QUOTE ]

yet being able to cast it while invis makes up for that widely imo


 

Posted

i remember first time i tried total domination with my Mind/Psy dominator....
my face was this : ---______---
i thought it was a joke... really bad accuracy, very short duration (single hold, without any hold ench, probably lasts longer.), and veeeeeery looooong recharge --__--
you really need to 6 slot it just to have a decent power... but it will never be great cause you need to put 2 acc + 2 holds + 2 recharge, that means it will never be great, neither for duration or recharge or acc..

i've deleted it with first respec and i didnt got it with my grav and ill trollers..
i'd suggest to get aoe hold only if you're first pool doesnt offer good aoe control powers (grav can be an example), but if you have things liek fear...skip it

P.S
Deceive and Confuse are amazing... you cant skip it...


 

Posted

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bha i think all aoe hold powers need a buff... they are weak, slow, bad acc and bad duration.... totally helpless in every builds

[/ QUOTE ]

Pardon me?? I find them great and amazing atm

[/ QUOTE ]

/agree (oh dear...I just agreed with Dark....now I'm surely doomed! )


SingStar:
"Extremists LOVE to fish to get us annoyed so we break the forum rules."
CRACK68:
"The origin of life wasn't planned either, should all life be declared a bug and wiped out?"
Lionsbane:
"You know me.Ever the realist"

 

Posted

/em what?? That just makes you a better person and a more skilled player ^^


 

Posted

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bha i think all aoe hold powers need a buff... they are weak, slow, bad acc and bad duration.... totally helpless in every builds

[/ QUOTE ]

AOE holds are the same hold magnitude as other controller holds - enough to hold a lieutenant, not enough to hold a boss unless you get a critical hold or stack it with another hold.

Their recharge time is very long, because it is not intended that you use your AOE hold in every fight. Rather, it is intended that you use it to make a difference in fights you would otherwise have trouble winning.

Their accuracy is quite poor, because an AOE hold is a tremendously powerful capability. (Spectral Terror is also very powerful, but it has its own drawbacks - not least of which is that there are several critters out there that have high protection or immunity against Fear effects, while high protection against Holds is quite rare.)

Their duration... eh. It's enough to let you run away, or to let the fire blaster use Rain Of Fire safely, or the fire tanker use Burn in the traditional way, or for a */kinetics controller to string together Fulcrum Shift and an epic AOE for some juicy damage.

Most of the time, you don't need them. When you need them, you really need them.


DCUO and CO will never see my money. The Citygame will keep seeing my money for as long as I keep enjoying it

 

Posted

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bha i think all aoe hold powers need a buff... they are weak, slow, bad acc and bad duration.... totally helpless in every builds

[/ QUOTE ]

Pardon me?? I find them great and amazing atm

[/ QUOTE ]

/agree (oh dear...I just agreed with Dark....now I'm surely doomed! )

[/ QUOTE ]

The only one I find I don't use that often anymore is Cinders, and that's just because Flashfire + Fire Cages works almost as well. I know other primaries have similar combos, but with fire/kin things just go so very fast.

Oh, and about the AoE holds, we can't really ask for the pre-I5 ones AND have containment now can we...


CoX 50s: <ill/rad> <ice/ice> <fire/kin> <grav/sonic> <ice/storm> <earth/kin> <kin/elec> <cold/psy> <thugs/dark> <fire/dark> <dark/elec> <night widow> <EM/ninj> <mind/icy>

 

Posted

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really bad accuracy

[/ QUOTE ]The acc penalty is the same as all other AoE controls.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Flash IS the weakest of all AOE Hold powers

[/ QUOTE ]Is it? To my knowledge it's no worse than cinders or glacier.

[/ QUOTE ]
Joint weakest is still weakest

According to NoFuture its the slowest of the three to activate, all other things being equal that makes it weaker. Certainly it takes longer to trigger than Cinders.

[/ QUOTE ]

yet being able to cast it while invis makes up for that widely imo

[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed, but you can Smoke and Cinders too, basically the same effect, except you don't have to worry about Surpression as far as I know, just slap it on unaggroed mobs &amp; they won't see you, even if you attack someone else (not too close to em mind).

One nice thing with Flash is that the to-hit is made against everyone in range at the start of the animation. This saves it from being truely useless, with Mr Knockback behind you AOE NRG Blasting everything its quite frequent that by the time they're actually Held they're halfway across the room.

So the Animation Time isn't THAT much of an issue thankfully.

Deceive is great solo and on small teams. Flash is poor until you get SOs and as people say above it becomes a Panic Button later on, most teams kill things so quickly you'll just be PAs, Spect Terroring everything and Blind / Deceiving choice targets.

My Illusion / Stormie doesn't end up in the thick of things often so i don't like having to run in to PBAOE. It is useful for Freezing Rain, as mentioned above but 2/3 slow-slotted Snowstorm applied first works as well for most groups too (doggies being one exception. Stupid Warwolves).


 

Posted

Having an aoe hold sets you up for aoe containment. Unfortunatly illusion gets no aoe damage powers till you get your epics.

On the whole, I would level out Flash, at least for now.


I really should do something about this signature.

 

Posted

Cheers people...well confused now lol


 

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really bad accuracy

[/ QUOTE ]The acc penalty is the same as all other AoE controls.

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uh? actually, powers like mass hypnosys, Terrify or every other imm/sleep/fear aoe power have a very good accuracy...
only hold aoe powers use to miss a lot


 

Posted

Then our work is done

I agree with PRAF though, Flash is the one I'd drop.


 

Posted

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really bad accuracy

[/ QUOTE ]The acc penalty is the same as all other AoE controls.

[/ QUOTE ]

uh? actually, powers like mass hypnosys, Terrify or every other imm/sleep/fear aoe power have a very good accuracy...
only hold aoe powers use to miss a lot

[/ QUOTE ]Incorrect. The besic accuracy modifier is 1, nearly all AoE control powers are either 0,8 or 0,9. In the case of mind, Mass hypno (like other AoE sleeps) is 1, Terrify is 0,9, and total dom and mass confuse are 0,8.


 

Posted

....um, how was the poster incorrect if he/she said exactly what you did (sans the numbers)....


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
....um, how was the poster incorrect if he/she said exactly what you did (sans the numbers)....

[/ QUOTE ]He/She said those powers have very good accuracy, when they in fact have normal or lower accuracy.


 

Posted

Ah right. I must've just got confused by the fact that he/she'd said Sleeps and Fears had a higher Acc than AoE holds and so did you....

Must've been the way i read it.