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If your running away, your being beat.
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LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, jesus christ my ribs.. ache
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If your running away your being beat.
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ROFL, I'm so glad I rez'd this thread.
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globey....u above all ppl shud no that travel powers ARE cheating as well as insps, buffs, teaming and using powers with IOs slotted
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tru' dat
No none of that is cheating and upon reflection I think an Invuln Ice would of drawn with a Spines regen beyond the 10 minute line toe to toe in those times as they both minus recharge the hell out of each other.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
LMAO so my empath gets beaten all the time beacuse i dont stand still and let you attack me. [censored] he's the biggest loser
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LMAO so my empath gets beaten all the time beacuse i dont stand still and let you attack me. [censored] he's the biggest loser
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Your empath is likely to be ranged attacks anyway so kiting in a duel is alright. In team PVP your probably getting ganked atleast thats what usually happened when PVP pentads first came out.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I am levelling a Spines Regen, a pure Invuln on SOs will eventually take a fall against her unless they run away and if they are running away i'll put that down as "due to losing" even though I know tactical retreats are often common sense.
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Ok again i dont understand your post.You are talking about I3 and what happened in pentads? How is this relevant?Please explain me
You are comparing also in the quoted part uneven things.An invul on SO and whatnot. Fine let me accept for a second that you might just MIGHT stand a chance to score a kill against an invul due to the spines -recharge (which i highly doubt having seen some really good PvP Invul tankers on SO era). No PvPers steps in zone with SO's.Your comparison is pretty useless here.
The running away now.No sane person will proclaim "hey i am winning here" just because someone is retreating or mobilising. Nothing is over till the fat lady sings and thats when hp hits 0.The rest is smalltalk imho.
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No none of that is cheating and upon reflection I think an Invuln Ice
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Ok you said Invul/Ice so i stop right there.Ice as attack chain sucks badly. 1 high damage attack and 1 high DoT with a hold and thats it.Noone in his right mind would deliberately choose ice secondary on a tank to PvP.
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In team PVP your probably getting ganked atleast thats what usually happened when PVP pentads first came out.
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Pentad since then has changed a lot.Good empaths with PvP builds are not that easy to gank.It will require either a tp hold or some pretty heavy spiking in a pentad to manage to gank the empath so easy.Especially with the insane empathy pvp builds out there. Is not likely to manage gank an empath that pops fast heals to himself and has regen aura up every 50seconds or even perma.
To sum it up
- PvP tanks is nearly impossible to be killed by a solo scrapper.The only scrapper that might stand such a chance would be a BS with some really good spiking and still is really hard.
-PvP mobility is alpha and omega when you step in the arena or zones.The only static fights you will ever see is by those people that think pvp is "toe to toe fighting in WB/SC/RV" with brutes/tanks/scrappers against squishies demanding the blaster to stand still and not be a loser by jumping around.
Only other way to pull such a kill is by the tanker being totally new to pvp or not know jack about it.Or a player error.
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Ok you said Invul/Ice so i stop right there.Ice as attack chain sucks badly. 1 high damage attack and 1 high DoT with a hold and thats it.Noone in his right mind would deliberately choose ice secondary on a tank to PvP
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This is the only question I will answer as I feel no need to reiterate anything else no matter how its perceived, edited etc. They should draw on account of neither one of them defeating the other. Ice's -rechg imo should kill the rechg a tad on Spines attacks lowering dps meaning the window of opportunity from having even hastened dullpain slowed to should be gone. This is based on SO slots, typical slotting only, in the days of the issue of when this post started. Looking back and not realising or knowing from first hand experience how effective that minus rechg actually is on the ice melee I reckon I was wrong to think an Invuln Ice would necessarily eventually get beat by a Spines Regen in a toe to toe fight. This was all ofc past the 10 min mark during which much in the way of insps would of been gone. As has been said already most people don't play past the first 10 mins. Some Tankers can be beaten by some scrappers eventually and I wouldn't go as far to say that no Tanker can be beat by a scrapper. However most PVP built Tankers should do alright. Aid self, fear powers etc can and do make huge differences.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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No PvPers steps in zone with SO's.Your comparison is pretty useless here.
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I do. /e smacks with a roll of newspaper. Not a single of my toons is fully IOed yet.
Youre going bit too far on occasion even though I generally agree with what you say.
And Shannon, you obviously don't have a clue about PVP so I'd try avoid making laugh out of yourself tbh.
"Due to losing" just hugely stupid sentence. Only kills count. I wonder when are they gonna change football so that other team is ruled the winner in 0-0 situation because "they were obviously winning".
On the other hand, pvp melee characters who know what they are doing should pretty much always draw a match between themselves 0-0 unless someone makes a mistake. Brutes seem weaker than any other melee toon though..
Aid self on a invul is pretty useful, I have it on my main.
<3 this thread
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor
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No PvPers steps in zone with SO's.Your comparison is pretty useless here.
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I do. /e smacks with a roll of newspaper. Not a single of my toons is fully IOed yet.
Youre going bit too far on occasion even though I generally agree with what you say.
And Shannon, you obviously don't have a clue about PVP so I'd try avoid making laugh out of yourself tbh.
"Due to losing" just hugely stupid sentence. Only kills count. I wonder when are they gonna change football so that other team is ruled the winner in 0-0 situation because "they were obviously winning".
On the other hand, pvp melee characters who know what they are doing should pretty much always draw a match between themselves 0-0 unless someone makes a mistake. Brutes seem weaker than any other melee toon though..
Aid self on a invul is pretty useful, I have it on my main.
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I actually find PVP duels lame. Rock Paper Scissors springs to mind and the general feelings among those into Rock Paper Scissors PVP comes down to this:
Paper is what I am.
Rocks are fine.
Scissors need a nerf. 
Now I kid you not its not hard to PVP, I do not have any PVP builds.. I find the duels [censored], worthless wastes of time and have often said team PVP is where its at, base raids are great etc etc. Many find out what type of character they are fighting and then go buy the insps to suit or say I will go get my "" and I don't even pick up inspirations going in lol.
My close to what I would call PVP toons are generally on Vigilance where I find the PVE game rather good 
This is my first comment made in this section back in the days of SO's
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Also be said, Im not sure a scrapper can beat a tank.
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Well depends on build vs build given enough time and to the OP impale wont immob a tank.
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You can have a basic Invuln build of SOs and you can even hasten your build as spines will be a -recharge type character then you can go toe to toe with my Spines/Regen (SO build only) when she is 50 for upto 20 mins and see what I am saying.
If it said at first "I am not sure a scrapper can beat a PVP tank" then I would of been a little different depending on someones idea of a PVP build.
In retrospect I am pretty sure that the -recharge from Ice melee added to such a build would make a difference and that a Spines/Regen probably wouldn't necessarily get a win within 20mins but an Invuln/Mace (without aid self or fight pool as that too would make a difference) should end up going down.
All of this, that I have been saying doesn't refer to "nowadays" it refers to when this post began in the days of SOs so comments like:
"No PvPers steps in zone with SO's.Your comparison is pretty useless here."
..are wasted and it wasn't me with the thread necromancy.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I do. /e smacks with a roll of newspaper. Not a single of my toons is fully IOed yet.
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I think you misunderstood what i said.Most of PvPers imho that choose to step in a pvp zone at 50 are fully slotted "at least" with COMMON IO's i didnt refer to sets.Sets is a totally different story. But most out there step in pvp zones with full common IO's.
#672191 - Sun Oct 08 2006 09:26 PM
This is the date the thread started. Those looking to keep with the thread necromancy and troll and flame by all means carry on.
IOs came after this thread had started.*
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5.1.07 * Version 14.20070417.10T2
Issue 9: Breakthrough
For information about Known Issues with this release, please visit the Known Issues Page.
HEADLINES:
Invention System: The Invention System has come to Paragon City and the Rogue Isles. Players can now acquire Recipes and Salvage to build Invention Origin (IO) Enhancements that can never be out-leveled. With Inventions players can...
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To use what was said in those times in these times just shows a lack of intelligence. I have been referring to those times.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Try a good spines/regen versus a good invuln/anything and allow the match to go to maximum time limit (thats way beyond 10 minutes), then come back to me and say its impossible for a scrapper to beat a tank, i doubt anyone could and no i wouldnt know from experience its just maths:P.
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Well I can say when I had access to Israfel, I took on several Fire Aura/? Tankers and beat everyone of them 1v1 in the arena.. so I know Fire Aura is out of that equation.
Ice.. mmm gave me problems... but I've beaten a couple I faced.
Stone.. meh... Rooted is a pain, and they're DMG RES/DEF is way too superior -- it would take ALOT.
Invul.. I've never actually faced one, head on.. but I know it's Toxic DMG res is decent.. but can be stacked on top to make it hard for them, then just keep on going at it -- between the Regen of the Spines/Regen and the DMG RES of an Invuln.. it'll take some doing I think.. but can be done.. if you don't get bored before then..
But, my money would be on the Tank outlasting the Spines/Regen..
My view based on? Simple. Having a level 50 Spines/Regen ... seeing decent Invul Tankers in action vs mobs.. having one myself on Defiant .. and taking into account the PowerSets.. with AND without maths.
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When you had israfel, the pvp was not that popular. Not to mention lack of IOs.
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If your running away, your being beat.
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LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, jesus christ my ribs.. ache
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If your running away your being beat.
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ROFL, I'm so glad I rez'd this thread.
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globey....u above all ppl shud no that travel powers ARE cheating as well as insps, buffs, teaming and using powers with IOs slotted
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tru' dat
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Yer, dont run in pvp. Specially in a game that movement is pvp. Stay and get pwned like pr0z do. FO sho.
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This is the date the thread started. Those looking to keep with the thread necromancy and troll and flame by all means carry on
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To use what was said in those times in these times just shows a lack of intelligence. I have been referring to those times.
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I didnt reply to you so whats your point?
I was answering to Hammerfall post which is dated Sat Sep 29 2007 03:18 PM
So get a grip.And even what you were saying regarding Tanks and Scrappers back then pre IO's made no sense so the posts are just fine imho.We have also been pvping since day PvP was introduced in this game clocked countless hours fine tunning pvp toons and builds as well as zone tactics and we know just as well what can be done,what could be done and the timeline of events and how mechanics changes have altered pvp within this game. At no point have i EVER seen a good pvper with an Invul to be threated by a scrapper.The result is most likely always a tie unless human error comes into play.
When you get in the process of making a post involving mechanics and pvp when you actually DONT pvp that much,DONT spend much time in zones or arena or actually have pvp builds and generally lack the PvP experience to back it up,you should be prepared to be criticised by those that actually have and do.
Thats all i am off the thread if you want bring your spines scrapper and have a go at my tank i can promise you there is no chance in hell to score a kill.
You were the last in the line of posts before mine.
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At no point have i EVER seen a good pvper with an Invul to be threated by a scrapper.The result is most likely always a tie unless human error comes into play.
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You probably never saw the fight go past the 10 minute mark. Many PVP Tankers will have things like presence pool, Aid self, fight pool but I will assume: Not all.
A hasted Spines/Regen with 2 acc 3 dam and 1 end slot on 4 STs with stamina + QR + BER = energiser bunny running on a sometimes constant straight use of 4 attacks. In an unlimited toe to toe match with a pretty basic model of a Invuln defeat is inevitable. I have PVPed, I initially gave it a try when it first came out, with an SR of all things and as gutted as Hammerfall is about his Inv/Mace in PVP does anyone really think I was happy about my Claws/SR? No. Geas of the kind ones is somit nowadays I particularly don't like to get started on. Que sera.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Hahahaha PvP Tanks.
Once, when I was being sceptic, Imaginary challenged me to a match where he had a invul/EM tanker, and I had a team of 2: my en/en blaster and my friend playing empath defender. 1vs2 that is. He came close beating my friend, I came close beating him, but neither happened and the match was 0-0 on 10 minutes. Imag being slowed by snow storm and all.
This was long time ago though.
On a related note: good invul/EM tanker is one of the scariest opponents I have faced in a duel with my blaster. Mini-Jump regularly beat me in duels and I dont think I have beaten him to this date. Im fairly certain I could force a draw today though.
ps. And I also answered to your post dated 29 sep 2007 previously.
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I do. /e smacks with a roll of newspaper. Not a single of my toons is fully IOed yet.
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I think you misunderstood what i said.Most of PvPers imho that choose to step in a pvp zone at 50 are fully slotted "at least" with COMMON IO's i didnt refer to sets.Sets is a totally different story. But most out there step in pvp zones with full common IO's.
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Well I didnt have full common IOs either... cba. Plus some of my toons didnt have money to make the common IOs..
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A hasted Spines/Regen with 2 acc 3 dam and 1 end slot on 4 STs with stamina + QR + BER = energiser bunny running on a sometimes constant straight use of 4 attacks. In an unlimited toe to toe match with a pretty basic model of a Invuln defeat is inevitable.
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Seriously stop making comparisons that are not valid is beyond ridicilous. There is no such thing as "basic invul model" when we are talking PvP. We have a PvP spines/regen VS a PVP Invul/* If you want to test this bring your Spines/Regen in RV i ll put Ianroar who is an Invul/SS against your spines regen and let you there trying for as long as you like. There is no chance you ll score a kill.EVER.
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I have PVPed, I initially gave it a try when it first came out, with an SR of all things and as gutted as Hammerfall is about his Inv/Mace in PVP does anyone really think I was happy about my Claws/SR? No. Geas of the kind ones is somit nowadays I particularly don't like to get started on. Que sera.
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The fact that you PvPed when it it was initially introduced and just because you stepped in an arena match once maybe twice and in a zone couple times doesnt say anything to me or anyone else that PvP's on a daily basis since PvP was introduced in this game and pretty much can tell you how any given combo will perform against another one when it comes to PvP.
Like i said talk is cheap you wanna make a point bring a spines/regen to RV i ll bring you an Invul and let em rip it till there is a kill. It wont happen. So either bring it or stop speculating about things that are not valid.
And seriously how is Geas of the kind related to a claws/SR and how is this all relevant to anything? 
I love spines/regens
Geas is massive +ToHit, it'll basically negate any +Def buffs.
Regen vs invul = tie, period. In fact proper melee vs proper melee = tie
only thing that might lose would have to be sr lol :P.
Some serious forum spiking going on here... where's the taunting tank??? 
CoX 50s: <ill/rad> <ice/ice> <fire/kin> <grav/sonic> <ice/storm> <earth/kin> <kin/elec> <cold/psy> <thugs/dark> <fire/dark> <dark/elec> <night widow> <EM/ninj> <mind/icy>
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If your running away, your being beat.
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LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, jesus christ my ribs.. ache
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If your running away your being beat.
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ROFL, I'm so glad I rez'd this thread.
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globey....u above all ppl shud no that travel powers ARE cheating as well as insps, buffs, teaming and using powers with IOs slotted