[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A hasted Spines/Regen with 2 acc 3 dam and 1 end slot on 4 STs with stamina + QR + BER = energiser bunny running on a sometimes constant straight use of 4 attacks. In an unlimited toe to toe match with a pretty basic model of a Invuln defeat is inevitable.
[/ QUOTE ]
Seriously stop making comparisons that are not valid is beyond ridicilous. There is no such thing as "basic invul model" when we are talking PvP. We have a PvP spines/regen VS a PVP Invul/* If you want to test this bring your Spines/Regen in RV i ll put Ianroar who is an Invul/SS against your spines regen and let you there trying for as long as you like. There is no chance you ll score a kill.EVER.
[ QUOTE ]
I have PVPed, I initially gave it a try when it first came out, with an SR of all things and as gutted as Hammerfall is about his Inv/Mace in PVP does anyone really think I was happy about my Claws/SR? No. Geas of the kind ones is somit nowadays I particularly don't like to get started on. Que sera.
[/ QUOTE ]
The fact that you PvPed when it it was initially introduced and just because you stepped in an arena match once maybe twice and in a zone couple times doesnt say anything to me or anyone else that PvP's on a daily basis since PvP was introduced in this game and pretty much can tell you how any given combo will perform against another one when it comes to PvP.
Like i said talk is cheap you wanna make a point bring a spines/regen to RV i ll bring you an Invul and let em rip it till there is a kill. It wont happen. So either bring it or stop speculating about things that are not valid.
And seriously how is Geas of the kind related to a claws/SR and how is this all relevant to anything? 
[/ QUOTE ]
Nothing I have said is without practical knowledge and nothing I have said isn't mathematically disprovable.The fact that you are confused about Geas in terms of its effect vs SR just tells me I would be arguing with someone not worth wasting words on. You can try to be someone your not and you can keep looking for me as much as you have been since I had replied to Fire Kittys guide, in comparison to before, but one thing you won't achieve, is in proving me wrong about a damn thing. I have 30 lvls to go to 50. The spines regen build "I do know" - no problems there. What I have stated, "exactly what I have stated" can be proven, but not what you or anyone else have added to what I have stated. Now that I have already held my hands up and gone back on my words about the Invuln/Ice as it will effect my DPS I don't see a problem. What I do see, is the difference between whose worth my time and who isn't.
My sig was mean't for you btw.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do. /e smacks with a roll of newspaper. Not a single of my toons is fully IOed yet.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you misunderstood what i said.Most of PvPers imho that choose to step in a pvp zone at 50 are fully slotted "at least" with COMMON IO's i didnt refer to sets.Sets is a totally different story. But most out there step in pvp zones with full common IO's.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well I didnt have full common IOs either... cba. Plus some of my toons didnt have money to make the common IOs..
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, just discovered this gem of a thread... 
I can back Hammer up here, my Stalker "False Colour" is level 30.9, has all but one of his enhancement slots filled with level 30 SOs (he has a level 33 Leaping +Stealth IO in sprint) and does quite alright in Sirens... and my level 50 Regen scrapper and level 50 PB do zonal PvP every now and again and are still purely built with SOs.
In regards to the 'tank vs scrapper' argument, my Katana/Regen has only ever encountered one other melee toon that could reliably kill him, and that was due to the very short-lived "100% Fury-with-Power-Sink" bug. I'd go so far as to state that no melee toon can kill a well-played Regen providing that the Regen has a decently-slotted travel power. And I'd say that statement holds true for most (if not all) melee toons with a self-heal.
As I understand it, the whole point of kiting or "temporarily running away" from a Melee opponent in PvP is not to admit defeat to the other player, but to prevent that player from unloading their entire attack chain in your face. By kiting a melee toon you will break up their chain, take less damage, and give you time to counterattack. This is particularly useful if you have an uninterruptable self heal (which can be used whilst running/jumping away) and your opponent does not, since you will outlast them.
If Scrappers had access to Fire or Energy Melee, they might just be able to reliably kill an INV tanker one-on-one... without it, their damage type is just far too much resisted. I know from past experience that my Kat/Regen can unload attack chain after attack chain onto a Dull Pained, 90% S/L resist INV tanker without eating noticably into their green bar. And that was before +HP and +Regen IO set bonuses. If they used Aid Self or started kiting me, I'd never be able to take them down. Heck I'd not be surprised if nowadays an Empath could stay in Melee range of a Katana scrapper with Acro + Epic Shield + Healing Aura on Auto and simply not take enough damage to get particularly worried. S/L damage just sucks far too badly... 
I could probably survive a scrapper toe to toe with my empath if they didnt crit. He has 1380 hp :P and fears hehe.
It was possible to pretty much ignore a Kat scrapper on my Empath Pre-Inventions unless they got a few crits, so yeah. S/L is a bit naff vs Defender or Controller APP's, especially Katana.
[ QUOTE ]
If Scrappers had access to Fire or Energy Melee,
[/ QUOTE ]
That would be really interesting to see. I am guessing a high damage energy scrapper would be a menace in PvP.Energy/regen scrapper? Hmmmm sounds a bit too much.
lol imagine a critical energy transfer
[ QUOTE ]
lol imagine a critical energy transfer
[/ QUOTE ]
Won't happen. Didn't on Stalkers. Likewise Total Focus there doesn't get a full crit bonus. Besides, I'd rather new sets than old ones copied over.
That being said, I'd rather new sets that weren't always Smash or Lethal. Some Lethal/Psi (or Lethal/Energy) damage type stuff like the vanguard swords would've been nice.
[ QUOTE ]
That being said, I'd rather new sets that weren't always Smash or Lethal. Some Lethal/Psi (or Lethal/Energy) damage type stuff like the vanguard swords would've been nice.
[/ QUOTE ]
50/50 lethal/psi is bound to happen.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
If Scrappers had access to Fire or Energy Melee, they might just be able to reliably kill an INV tanker one-on-one... without it, their damage type is just far too much resisted. I know from past experience that my Kat/Regen can unload attack chain after attack chain onto a Dull Pained, 90% S/L resist INV tanker without eating noticably into their green bar.
[/ QUOTE ]
-Rechg of spines gradually takes its toll on dull pain as well as Unstoppable.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
GOD im so tired of this thread shannon can't we just prove this to you so you shut up?
If u can move and have aid self, i doubt a spines could hurt an Invul 
Ian pls just show her!
[ QUOTE ]
If u can move and have aid self, i doubt a spines could hurt an Invul
[/ QUOTE ]
You dont even need to move..
[ QUOTE ]
-Rechg of spines gradually takes its toll on dull pain as well as Unstoppable.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dull pain and what?!
who uses unstoppable?
and i dont normally move unless they use quills
Dr Rocks made a new Damage sustainability comparison chart for anyone who would like it, never had it, ever seen it or could do with knowing useful math formulas. It now includes IOs and is linked in my Sig.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
who uses unstoppable?
and i dont normally move unless they use quills
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL! You even got unstop ian? Never seen you use it! 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If Scrappers had access to Fire or Energy Melee, they might just be able to reliably kill an INV tanker one-on-one... without it, their damage type is just far too much resisted. I know from past experience that my Kat/Regen can unload attack chain after attack chain onto a Dull Pained, 90% S/L resist INV tanker without eating noticably into their green bar.
[/ QUOTE ]
-Rechg of spines gradually takes its toll on dull pain as well as Unstoppable.
[/ QUOTE ]
It won't make a discernable difference in a RL situation. The -Rchg on each attack except "Throw Spines" is 8%, and on "Throw Spines" it's 16%. Since a decent INV tanker is going to be packing either +Recharge set bonuses, Hasten, or both... even stacked spines attacks are not going to phase them in the slightest.
As an example, my Perma Dull Pain Inv Tanker build has Hasten plus a passive 55% +Recharge. The combined, stacked Recharge from spines attacks will not come close to breaking through his passive recharge buff let alone Hasten. I have a 50 Spines/DA which has fought with my 50 INV/SS (I wanted some testing of my tank's IO build and they're on different accounts) - the INV tanker can practically stand there and let his 267% passive regeneration rate OUT OF DULL PAIN cover all of the incoming damage from the spines attacks, due to the S/L resistances Energy Torrent and Death Shroud actually ended up doing more damage over time than Ripper.
In my testing, any time the INV could concievably need a major amount of healing, Dull Pain was available. He doesn't even need to kite, and that's assuming that the Scrapper is attacking constantly and is going to hit him all the time (My Spines/DA was running Focussed Accuracy, without it he started whiffing like crazy due to my Tank's S/L Defence - +30% ish with one person in melee range plus the "25% PvP bonus").
Bear in mind that my Tanker doesn't have Aid Self, nor is he particularly specced for PvP. He's a PvE team meatshield, and he can easily get beaten on all day by a Spines/ Scrapper without batting an eyelid.
Unstoppable is NOT needed fighting a Spines/ when you already have capped S/L resists from other powers.
Note that this is *Purely* down to Smashing/Lethal resistance being so widespread as to make sets which rely on it borked in PvP. My EM Stalker can easily beat the same, non-retaliating INV/SS Tanker in only 3-4 hits.
I can anticipate that a Spines/DA wont beat a Invuln Tanker and that a Spines/Regen wont beat Invuln Tank with fight pool. Too many "man down the pub" generalising going on. I shall leave you all to it.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
Dr Rocks made a new Damage sustainability comparison chart for anyone who would like it, never had it, ever seen it or could do with knowing useful math formulas. It now includes IOs and is linked in my Sig.
[/ QUOTE ]
Can you use this to calculate PvP sustainable damage? Becauae from what i saw there is no option to switch values.
[ QUOTE ]
Spines/Regen wont beat Invuln Tank with fight pool.
[/ QUOTE ]
Explain me how you anticipate then that the Spines/Regen will beat the Invul without fight Pool.I am curious.
Not to mention that ALL damage spines does except the DoT is lethal damage, and I dont think invul resistance against that is very small.. And DP gives toxic res anyway. The spines simply cannot hurt the tanker without the exception of Crits. Bah this conversation is stupid.
Back it up in pocket D or everyone just shut up.
LULZ who cares, my archery/bubble pwn invul tanks in 2.41 seconds 
Nope just 5 invul powers
[ QUOTE ]
And DP gives toxic res anyway.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dull Pain does what now?
Defiant 50�s: Generalissimo, Righteous Bob, Splortch, Brutus Cayuga
Union 50's: Chimera Obscura, Diet Anthracite, Grim Proctologist, Puny Little Minion, Raging Bitumen
In Soviet Russia, mission farm you!
[ QUOTE ]
*PB..Aim.. BU*
Some serious forum spiking going on here... where's the taunting tank???
[/ QUOTE ]
That can be you okt