Superior invisibility, group invisibility and PFF
By
Animal_Mutha_EU,
Posted on: 2006-09-21 11:46 in Controllers
[ QUOTE ]
and i dont think you need any invisibility power to ghost.. am i wrong?
[/ QUOTE ]You're right with that, a capable person can ghost quite well without any kind of stealth. With PFF, invis is not often needed.
[ QUOTE ]
Final question is, do you think a illusion/ff troller should still get SI/GI? and why?
[/ QUOTE ]I would take GI, invisible team can have it's uses 
An invisible team can have its uses but the question is, does it recharge fast enough to keep you and your team perma invis?
It's now Issue 21 and I am back!
My new Global is @Zyhar
Currently enjoying the Exalted Server!
Haste and 2 recharge nowadays I think. I dropped GI as I had Steamy Mist anyway.
With Surpression in I've found any time I GI'd the team (Shadowhunter mish & a Hydra mish, both clickies) the # fatalities wasn't worth it. Supression doesn't give you any visual clue that I could see to say "They can see you!"
With PFF you can Ghost, or just run past those that spot you until they lose interest.
There are a couple of differences between SI and GI, but I would agree you probably don't need both:
- What: SI gives you a "stronger" invis, so even mobs with +perception will have a harder time seeing you.
- How: SI is an endurance-heavy toggle (needs 2-3 EndRdx) while GI is click-and-go. You do run the risk of GI dropping at the wrong moment although with recharges and Hasten, it shouldn't happen too often.
- Who: although in some cases GI can be very useful to invis the team, it takes a bit of organising if you want to do it right (i.e. invis team-mates, but only those who want it). If you solo a lot, SI might be better.
Hope some of this helps
CoX 50s: <ill/rad> <ice/ice> <fire/kin> <grav/sonic> <ice/storm> <earth/kin> <kin/elec> <cold/psy> <thugs/dark> <fire/dark> <dark/elec> <night widow> <EM/ninj> <mind/icy>
Uhm ty guys, i think i'll just get GI to buff team and i'll only use PFF to ghost in solo :P
GI with 2 rech is perma, SI lets u fight without having to renew you invis as long as you have enough endurance, PFF enables you to "ghost", but remember you will aggro the whole place.
If you attack while using SI or GI you will have some time of stealth supression, but u will keep the def bonus up all the time afaik. In other words, supresion doesnt affect def bonus, only stealth
IMO Group Invisibility is now broken. Like Carnifax says, clicking any glowie will completely cancel the invisibility effect but not the graphic, so your team will carry on believing they're invisible when they are in reality fully visible to the mobs. It's really dangerous. And the long recharge means that after clicking a glowie there's a long wait before you can activate it again.
I have Group Invisibility now and it has its uses, but next time I respec I'll change to Superior Invisibility unless some changes to GI are made before that. GI is perma or nearly perma with hasten and 2 SOs, depending on Hasten cycle.
I think the "Invis wears off" thing only goes for 10 seconds if you click a Glowie.
But its impossible to tell.
I've never had much inkling what happens to GI when you attack someone. I think the invis effect for the attacked MoB is permenantly broken, but you will still be invis to future MoBs until it expires.
Another one of those Cryptic areas of the game
As far as I can tell, it goes away forever. The suppression I get when I attack is different, that wears off after a while and I get back to invisible.
I just tested this with my level 50 Ill/FF controller. I used Group Invis and stood next to a level 50 Possessed Scientist Lt who didnt attack. I ran to the next group and defeated a minion, waited 10 seconds then ran back. I still did not get attacked. I had no other toggles/powers running.
Octavian Vanguard
@ohmsEU and @ohms 2
Badging character: Bimble on the Union server, Badgehunter.com and City Info Tracker.
[ QUOTE ]
I just tested this with my level 50 Ill/FF controller. I used Group Invis and stood next to a level 50 Possessed Scientist Lt who didnt attack. I ran to the next group and defeated a minion, waited 10 seconds then ran back. I still did not get attacked. I had no other toggles/powers running.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's what I said too. Now try clicking a glowie.
Will do.
Octavian Vanguard
@ohmsEU and @ohms 2
Badging character: Bimble on the Union server, Badgehunter.com and City Info Tracker.
You are quite right, clicking a glowie completely removes the stealth. That can't be WAI. Hmmm. 
Octavian Vanguard
@ohmsEU and @ohms 2
Badging character: Bimble on the Union server, Badgehunter.com and City Info Tracker.
---_________---
Omg...that's no good...
you TOTALLY lose GI by clicking glowies? that's too bad.. O_o
Long recharge, you lose it touching glowies.... i think im gonna skip GI and SI both -.-
lol is grant invisibility better? probably people lose it touching glowies, but Grant invisibility has fast recharge...
Uhm.. uhm... im not sure about SI/GI defence... Did you say you lose you're stealth effect(fighting), but not your def bonus(at least not a lot)? Uhm...does that means SI/GI could be used to have a decent Def bonus, or it just let you think you're having nice def but actually just an endurance waste?
I usually use Misty (with my storm def) and stealth (with my dom) to have a minimun def bonus
You totally lose stealth, but def buffs stay up. /storm is an end hog set so SI might probably be problematic. If it's not to ghost, and just for the end buffs i'd go for GI. If you mean to ghost, get SI instead
Personally i've seen that SI lose the stealth only if the foes are very close the glowie otherwise nothing happens. i've stealthed many missions in this way. Another thing is that having pets that take the aggro, u easy regain stealth after few seconds, unless u heal phantasm 
(i saw that spectral terror is great in this situation, it works with any npc, even bosses +2, quite well).
I soloed Adamastor (elite boss, not av, of course) tonight, just using pets, in SI. He never attacked me.
I never used GI but i've seen used by others, it have some use imo, but only in some case. ie: stealthing mis with no one having recall friend, with some risk, as said by someone, if gi wears off in the wrong place.
I have SI always on with no big problem with end. Anyway i have no personal knowledge of FF powerline, so PFF could be better that SI, saving you a different power, but i can only say my love to SI.
Does anyone know the +Def for SI when either;
1. Being passive, not attacking &
2. Whilst attacking?
Also suggestions on slotting was thinking about 3x End Redux and 3x Def.
The +DEF is quite small and doesn't change whether you attack or not, so slot 2-3 EndRdx and that's it.
CoX 50s: <ill/rad> <ice/ice> <fire/kin> <grav/sonic> <ice/storm> <earth/kin> <kin/elec> <cold/psy> <thugs/dark> <fire/dark> <dark/elec> <night widow> <EM/ninj> <mind/icy>
Shocklingly the hero builder says 6.25% defense on SI, 3.5% on GI. However, the description on SI is out of date. These may be old pre-defense nerf changes.
Personally would agree. Don't slot for defense buffs, but energy usage is high. I slot 2 energy rdx on SI, I would suggest do that as a minimum.
Paragon Girl
The invis dropping on glowies was added since stalkers on CoV were just able to search for and click the glowie, and complete mission with absolutely no risk.
I felt a lot more safer with SI than I did with GI.
It's a toggle so I can turn it off when I want and don't need to worry about it "running out". - Yes it uses more end, but it's nothing too drastic when slotted with ENDREDs.
If I could take both, I would have done (I like to be team friendly but also enjoy soloing), but I ended up going with SI.
@Under Control
i still didnt get nothing... neither SI or GI :P
i dont need it to ghost since i have PFF, so i was thinking to get it just for DEF bonus, but its only 6%, so im definitively skipping SI and GI. dispersion blubble will be my def power
Invis-drop on glowie is a good thing. Come on people get some skill.
Watch out with GI. Get all the teammembers because an invisible tank and an uninvisible squishy behind him can give unintended faceplants.
(Villain1: hey that superpowered weapon we're guarding is walking away. Villain 2: don't do anything, they said we should guard it against heroes and I see none.)<---Yeah Right.
I don't really mind group invis dropping on glowies, what I mind is graphics not updating to reflect it (probably bug) and it not coming back after suppression period (probably WAI but very unfair with the long recharge).
Hi guys, i've just made a illusion/Force field troller and my questions are about my object's powers.
First, Is there any reason to get both GI and SI?
SI gives a great def bonus and make you able to attack staing invisible, BUT you lose almost all your def bonus if you attack (as for stealth power).
GI makes you and all you team invisible, so why sould i get GI and SI? i mean, why should i take SI, if GI rend invisible my team and me too?
I thought SI was good to fight, to get def bonus, but you loose almost all...do you know how much +def will you have fighting, with SI activated?
Other question is about SI/GI and FF powers...
Personal Force field doenst give invisibilty, but makes you able to avoid the 95% of attacks.. so its good to ghost (plus, you can interact with objects without lose shield) and i dont think you need any invisibility power to ghost.. am i wrong?
I think the only reason to get SI/GI, having PFF, its to combat having a little def bonus, but i dont know how much that bonus is.. plus, FF pool already gives you dispersion bubble, that gives you def to all..
Final question is, do you think a illusion/ff troller should still get SI/GI? and why?