I have to admit the replies here have got me excited about getting to 38 and trying it out now. It better be worth the wait 
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I have to admit the replies here have got me excited about getting to 38 and trying it out now. It better be worth the wait
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I am resonabley confident you'll find it is!
TF.... Enjoy,
White 
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Stun may be a good idea to stack with the ranged stun, but a PB + Screech break through Acrobatics and is quite easily stackable by itself anyway.
[/ QUOTE ]Any stuns breaks through acro, as it is mag 2 hold protection and nothing else (apart from mag <rediculous> KB protection), i.e. not stun
Plight
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Stun may be a good idea to stack with the ranged stun, but a PB + Screech break through Acrobatics and is quite easily stackable by itself anyway.
[/ QUOTE ]Any stuns breaks through acro, as it is mag 2 hold protection and nothing else (apart from mag <rediculous> KB protection), i.e. not stun
Plight
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MAG1..
Acrobatics is a MAG1 Hold Res and a KB Protection
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Stun may be a good idea to stack with the ranged stun, but a PB + Screech break through Acrobatics and is quite easily stackable by itself anyway.
[/ QUOTE ]Any stuns breaks through acro, as it is mag 2 hold protection and nothing else (apart from mag <rediculous> KB protection), i.e. not stun
Plight
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MAG1..
Acrobatics is a MAG1 Hold Res and a KB Protection
[/ QUOTE ]Odd that, seeing as acro stops all the mag 2 blaster holds from doing anything. And there was me thinking mag 1 protection would never stop a mag 2 hold.
I also like the way you are correcting me/anyone about something yet in the same post are talking about acro being a hold res, it's quite obviosuly mag X hold protection and nothing at all to do with resistance to anything.
As I feared, someone/people have ploiughed in with their own defintions of mag this mag that holds, depends which nomenclature you use really. Me, I'm a fan of the blaster holds = mag 2, bpss protection = mag 2 / been thinking of it this way successfully for a few years school of thought.
Plight
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Stun may be a good idea to stack with the ranged stun, but a PB + Screech break through Acrobatics and is quite easily stackable by itself anyway.
[/ QUOTE ]Any stuns breaks through acro, as it is mag 2 hold protection and nothing else (apart from mag <rediculous> KB protection), i.e. not stun
Plight
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MAG1..
Acrobatics is a MAG1 Hold Res and a KB Protection
[/ QUOTE ]Odd that, seeing as acro stops all the mag 2 blaster holds from doing anything. And there was me thinking mag 1 protection would never stop a mag 2 hold.
I also like the way you are correcting me/anyone about something yet in the same post are talking about acro being a hold res, it's quite obviosuly mag X hold protection and nothing at all to do with resistance to anything.
As I feared, someone/people have ploiughed in with their own defintions of mag this mag that holds, depends which nomenclature you use really. Me, I'm a fan of the blaster holds = mag 2, bpss protection = mag 2 / been thinking of it this way successfully for a few years school of thought.
Plight
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Mmmm... "someone/people have ploiughed in with their own defintions of mag this mag that holds..." ... considering this isn't the first time myself or anyone has mentioned this.. I'll ignore that comment, really.
And, plough in with some "fact" driven detail.
Intergration Stops Holds doing not a lot, so does Practiced Brawler, and other such powers as well.. until you start stacking them.. then we get toggle drops... in PvP., that is.
Hell multiple applications (x3) from Stone Control AoEs will TOGGLEDROP through Elude WITH Practiced Brawler Running... so ermm.. 
??? (once hit hits ofcourse 
)
As for Blaster Holds being MAG2.. I'm curious where people seem to get this idea from.. as I've yet to see any Hero Builder/Info on the contrary other than:
"I've tested this, I've tested that.. this is right.. no this is.. no this is.."
AFAIK, in PvP MAG holds are reduced somewhat.. though I could've been told porkies, when Double said it, during a 1v1 match once. <*shrugs*> and what MAG people THINK they are might only be PvE related, and they immediately assume: "oh well if this is MAG X in PvE, then it must be the same in PvP".. <shifty eyes> mmm... riiiiiiiiiiight....
Let's take MAG holds into thought. Some point Stone Control holds are MAG2-3.. (still don't see where people got that idea from) and yet it takes 3 applications sometimes to 'take affect', through "hold resistance".. let's say.. mmmm... I hit someone with Acrobatics with my Fire Control hold, like . I dunno "Char"..
... what ever Hold Res "Char" is I dunno.. but I helped someone test it in Siren's Call, as they wanted to see what would happen. He was >HELD< on the first throw. So tell me.. what MAG is Char?
As for Blaster Holds, Snow Angel is an Ice/Ice blaster. I'm sure I can get her to break her out, and I'll get .. say my tanker who has Acrobatics, and see if her MAG2-3Holds, are stopped by MY Acrobatics ... easily enough done..
TBH, I think between the game and those Hero Builders, people have a slightly varied and sometimes UNREALISTIC opinion of that does that MAG and what does what MAG-RES.
My info? Comes from Vs Acrobatics Testing/having Acrobatics and being dropped by a supposed MAG2 Hold.
And This .. Naturally
So.. does anyone really know what MAG X is what MAG X res? Or are we all taking guessed based on "PvE Rules vs PvP Assumptions"?
baring in mind it's gone 3 30 am...
what are you on about? Mags didn't change in PvP AFAIK bar the mag of the mezs in the origin inherents, that is the only official mag change i ever read anywhere. As for hero builders, rarely use them so don't know/care too much what they say.
now then, in PvE AFAIC one blaster hold = mag 2 (why use caps for a shortening btw, it's not like "mag" is the initials of magnitude making it an acronym :/). This is loosely based on the some assumptions/facts I made up such as min/lt is held by a blaster hold, boss is held by 2 of said hold (immobs are the same IMPvEXP), now when we get onto the fear pools, unless they changed it, and assuming pool fear has a similar mag basis to standard issue blaster holds, ST fear (intimidate) will hold a min/lt yet AoE fear (invoke panic) will only affect minions (i'm talking standard mobs here btw, if there's such a thing). Now this lead me to believe that minions had no protection, lts had mag 1 protection and bosses mag 3 vs normal mez type things. I have worked on this basis for a very long time and it usually holds true AFAIK. Now then, bosses stunted me for a good while, but i did notice that both fear s from the fear pool would terrorise a boss, so naturally i assumed that they had mag 2 protection. I also hear that trollers ST holds crit for mag 3, holding a boss, similar evidence.
BTW, char? i don't think you said whether it was blsater, tank, troller or dom char, might have helped.
Moving on. As I said early in this post, to my best knowledge only duration is different in PvP when compared to PvP, that is to say that bog standard stuns go through acro, blaster holds won't break acro, but seismic smash will. From PvE i was lead to believe that this mag 3 and 1 shot held bosses.
Moving on to testing, and oddly i've done a little, as on deviant apparently i actually havea clue about PvP. 1 blaster hold will not hold through acro, 2 will. There is no 2 blaster hold combo, even the same one stacked, that cannot hold a boss in PvE or break acro, so methinks they're all mag 2, similarly, there are no mag 3 blaster holds. Now i hear tell, and i'm no expert on mag protections of certain powers in the melee sets, because frankly i have far better ways of squishing melee ATs than farting about trying to hold them, that the toggles at 50 on a scrapper will give mag 6 protection, TBH i can't test whether it's 6 or 7 as i don;t have any mag 1 or 3 holds. So, i can hold a scrapper with 4 holds, that's 2 holds stacked up to have 4 holds on them, 2 of each if you will. This holds them, when they take acro i can't hold them with the same holds stacked the same way as i could before, so again i can't say too much about acro added to the scrapper toggles because i don;t have odd mag holds. A troller AFAIK can hold a scrapper in 2 holds and an AoE or something, or is it less? I rarely use my troller in PvP. TBH 2 ST holds and an AoE from a troller could be anything from mag 6 to mag 8, so who knows? Not me eh .
As for mez protection in siren's, it shouldn't be the same as at 50, AFAIK from what i've been told, mag protection of toggles scales with level, so it wouldn't surprise me if at 25 it's a bit naff.
As for whatever is written about " "hold resistance" ", again AFAIK only one of the powers in the /regen set gives res to holds and other mezs, most of the mez protections are protection ranked at a set mag at each level. So as i said before mag = magnitude of hold regardless of duration or level or PvE/PvP, and duration = duration of hold, only affected by powers which resist mezs, or being automatically lowered in PvP cf PvE.
Back on topic. Total focus is pretty slow but very worth getting, your build will suck muchly in PvP and solo without it
Plight
Oh, just read your clicky. I don't care what sherksilver says or whatever it is, I have it. If acro was mag 1 KB resist (not entirely sure how you resist mags of KB) then why the hell can't thunder strike knock someone back with acro on? Oh hello electric manipulation blaster that can KD praetorian clock robots, you know, the one's people insist you can't KB or anything. That screenie says not much other than the info is bad on that power TBH. And again, why would i take a description seriously that says acro offers hold resistance when it offers squat all hold res and set amount of hold protection.
Let's see an energy blaster or an FF defender KB someone with acro eh, mag 1 my buttocks 
.
Plight
Is there an inherent 2mag resist to knockback in pvp like there maybe to holds?
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Hmmm...Clock Robots are actually weak vs. KB/KD so it affects them as if it's a Mag +1. Only the ED 209 ones have any KB protection.
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Hmmm...Clock Robots are actually weak vs. KB/KD so it affects them as if it's a Mag +1. Only the ED 209 ones have any KB protection.
[/ QUOTE ]Clockwork are weak to KB, but praetorian 'clockwork' (Neuron's and Anti-matter's bots) have resistance to it.
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Hmmm...Clock Robots are actually weak vs. KB/KD so it affects them as if it's a Mag +1. Only the ED 209 ones have any KB protection.
[/ QUOTE ]Clockwork are weak to KB, but praetorian 'clockwork' (Neuron's and Anti-matter's bots) have resistance to it.
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I thought they were just robots? And they all have the ED-209 build anyway?
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Oh, just read your clicky. I don't care what sherksilver says or whatever it is, I have it. If acro was mag 1 KB resist (not entirely sure how you resist mags of KB) then why the hell can't thunder strike knock someone back with acro on? Oh hello electric manipulation blaster that can KD praetorian clock robots, you know, the one's people insist you can't KB or anything. That screenie says not much other than the info is bad on that power TBH. And again, why would i take a description seriously that says acro offers hold resistance when it offers squat all hold res and set amount of hold protection.
Let's see an energy blaster or an FF defender KB someone with acro eh, mag 1 my buttocks .
Plight
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I hate the discussion about magnitudes because most people fail to see whats wrong.. It is a question of terminology and I have NOT seen how magnitude works defined ANYwhere.
If you have a power with mag2 effect and you use it on someone with mag 2 resist, does the effect work?
If you use a power with mag 3 effect on someone with mag2 resist, does it work? I supsect so, but does it work in the above case?
However this is defined (and NOTE, the definition is INDEPENDENT of any powers), it should be CLEAR that in this system mag 1 and mag 2 effects and resistances affect each other in the same way as mag100001 and mag100002 ones. It is the difference that matters and so im BORED TO MY GUTS to see everybody talk about mag this and mag that when they obviously dont grasp the concept.
SECONDLY I dont even believe that the system is that simple anymore, as Prima guide mentions mezzes and mex resistances with STRENGTH x.y with even decimals attached. Therefore I HIGLY SUSPECT that the real mez system would be as simple as the magnitude system.
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Hmmm...Clock Robots are actually weak vs. KB/KD so it affects them as if it's a Mag +1. Only the ED 209 ones have any KB protection.
[/ QUOTE ]Clockwork are weak to KB, but praetorian 'clockwork' (Neuron's and Anti-matter's bots) have resistance to it.
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I thought they were just robots? And they all have the ED-209 build anyway?
[/ QUOTE ]They are robots, but they're called 'praetorian clockwork'.
I kinda agree with Hammerfall on the whole misunderstanding of Mag thing - here's a quote from the dominator buff discussion, that includes a link to a post from Castle.
It fits my understanding of how mag works, and may help to illustrate things:
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Prima guide and _Castle_'s explanations here :
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Opening the handy spreadsheet to a random control power in the Dominator section, I see Cinders.
Cinders has 4 Hold entries.
1) Hold vs Critters. It is Duration Scale 8, which is affected by Enhancements, AT mods and Level Scale. It has a fixed Magnitude of 3. The Mag increasing in the Guide is erroneous.
2) Hold vs Players. It is Duration Scale 6, which is affected by Enhancements, AT mods and Level Scale. It has a fixed Magnitude of 4. It is subject to Suppression. The Mag increasing in the Guide is erroneous.
3) A second Hold vs Critters, which stacks with the first one. It is Duration Scale 12, which is affected by Enhancements, AT mods and Level Scale. It has a fixed Magnitude of 3. The Mag increasing in the Guide is erroneous. This entry only activates when Domination is active.
4) A second Hold vs Players, which stacks with the first one. It is Duration Scale 8, which is affected by Enhancements, AT mods and Level Scale. It has a fixed Magnitude of 4. The Mag increasing in the Guide is erroneous. This entry only activates when Domination is active.
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I kinda agree with Hammerfall on the whole misunderstanding of Mag thing - here's a quote from the dominator buff discussion, that includes a link to a post from Castle.
It fits my understanding of how mag works, and may help to illustrate things:
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Prima guide and _Castle_'s explanations here :
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Opening the handy spreadsheet to a random control power in the Dominator section, I see Cinders.
Cinders has 4 Hold entries.
1) Hold vs Critters. It is Duration Scale 8, which is affected by Enhancements, AT mods and Level Scale. It has a fixed Magnitude of 3. The Mag increasing in the Guide is erroneous.
2) Hold vs Players. It is Duration Scale 6, which is affected by Enhancements, AT mods and Level Scale. It has a fixed Magnitude of 4. It is subject to Suppression. The Mag increasing in the Guide is erroneous.
3) A second Hold vs Critters, which stacks with the first one. It is Duration Scale 12, which is affected by Enhancements, AT mods and Level Scale. It has a fixed Magnitude of 3. The Mag increasing in the Guide is erroneous. This entry only activates when Domination is active.
4) A second Hold vs Players, which stacks with the first one. It is Duration Scale 8, which is affected by Enhancements, AT mods and Level Scale. It has a fixed Magnitude of 4. The Mag increasing in the Guide is erroneous. This entry only activates when Domination is active.
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cool find there...
Indeed, clears up some dom issues I had
Plight
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Oh, just read your clicky. I don't care what sherksilver says or whatever it is, I have it. If acro was mag 1 KB resist (not entirely sure how you resist mags of KB) then why the hell can't thunder strike knock someone back with acro on? Oh hello electric manipulation blaster that can KD praetorian clock robots, you know, the one's people insist you can't KB or anything. That screenie says not much other than the info is bad on that power TBH. And again, why would i take a description seriously that says acro offers hold resistance when it offers squat all hold res and set amount of hold protection.
Let's see an energy blaster or an FF defender KB someone with acro eh, mag 1 my buttocks .
Plight
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I hate the discussion about magnitudes because most people fail to see whats wrong.. It is a question of terminology and I have NOT seen how magnitude works defined ANYwhere.
If you have a power with mag2 effect and you use it on someone with mag 2 resist, does the effect work?
If you use a power with mag 3 effect on someone with mag2 resist, does it work? I supsect so, but does it work in the above case?
However this is defined (and NOTE, the definition is INDEPENDENT of any powers), it should be CLEAR that in this system mag 1 and mag 2 effects and resistances affect each other in the same way as mag100001 and mag100002 ones. It is the difference that matters and so im BORED TO MY GUTS to see everybody talk about mag this and mag that when they obviously dont grasp the concept.
SECONDLY I dont even believe that the system is that simple anymore, as Prima guide mentions mezzes and mex resistances with STRENGTH x.y with even decimals attached. Therefore I HIGLY SUSPECT that the real mez system would be as simple as the magnitude system.
[/ QUOTE ]I pretty much agree with you Hammer, even though I know what I did irritates you. The way in which I attempted to justify my post was by setting down the rules as I see them and how I have tried to apply said rules to the PvE and PvP game as I've seen them, and also through testing. So yes it's a load of waffle when people just blurt out about mag blah blah blah, but I did try and define some things, it may be far more complex than I think it to be, but it's not a bad model, and as scientisty types will tell you, very little is easy to prove, we just keep coming up with better models until the rules fit as close to 100% of the time as possible.
As for res and protection we're still going round in cirles I think.
As for Weasel, I think you need to pay more attention
Plight
Protection - Stops the mez to a point, IE, Integration will stop 3 afaik before you're held.
Resistance - Shortens the duration of the mez, IE; Health shortens the duration of Sleeps somewhat.
That's the way I look at it, basically.
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Protection - Stops the mez to a point, IE, Integration will stop 3 afaik before you're held.
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As most like it, like "Practiced Brawler", when running.. 3 strikes and ur 'out', kinda routine.
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Resistance - Shortens the duration of the mez, IE; Health shortens the duration of Sleeps somewhat.
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Indeed.. tis a very 'minor' resistance.
Yeah well, nothing serious, I posted that in the morning and im usually in bad mood during mornings hehe.
Anyway I have noticed that the holds that you originally referred to as mag 2 a year ago, are now collectively referred to as mag3.. Id like to know what is behind this..
ps. Captain Skyfire has finally been respecced into the Vanilla pool.. Looking for ward for some PVP action.
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Yeah well, nothing serious, I posted that in the morning and im usually in bad mood during mornings hehe.
Anyway I have noticed that the holds that you originally referred to as mag 2 a year ago, are now collectively referred to as mag3.. Id like to know what is behind this..
ps. Captain Skyfire has finally been respecced into the Vanilla pool.. Looking for ward for some PVP action.
[/ QUOTE ]eh?
i dont think i said mag 3 about blaster holds, u can search my posts back a year : /
Bring on the skyfire, you will pwn me in a proper PvP spec
Plight
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Protection - Stops the mez to a point, IE, Integration will stop 3 afaik before you're held.
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As most like it, like "Practiced Brawler", when running.. 3 strikes and ur 'out', kinda routine.
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Resistance - Shortens the duration of the mez, IE; Health shortens the duration of Sleeps somewhat.
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Indeed.. tis a very 'minor' resistance.
[/ QUOTE ]what Ext said, and...
50% res is a fair bit AFAIK, just like the 50% stun res that aid self gives
Plight
A note for Total Focus takers:
Welcome to the "Eh? It killed me before my animation finished!" club!
Total Focus is love, on my dominator it really improved my enjoyability playing him. LOVE IT. :P
Really, TF is the bomb. TF is super awesome! TF when defianced is game breaking/boss one shotting*. :P
*might be a lie