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I still dont see what IoPs have got to do with base pvp though. If its not happening without IoPs it aint gonna happen with them either as IoPs suck.
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Well, cant say i agrea here.. Not sure how it is throughout the game, but Villains on Union has a fairly active 'Instant raid' activity, and has so since it started to work properly. This is just the more established SG/VG that does this on a regualr basis, but we are hoping it increases as more ppl reach 50.
and regarding the effect of IoPs i cant really make up my mind. I know most larger SG/VG will do the CoP atleast enough times to win it once, atleast for teh badge/experience. The initial boosts from IoPs do seem a bit small and uneffective. not sure how the mez-protection works, if its res to Mag 1 or what, but if its Mag 1 resist, its usefull, but not important. there are the rare 20% (i think) boosters as well in the game (6 per server?) and tbh.. 20% +dmg or +XP would be worth fighting for, no doubt. and if u possess an IoP, u are forced to accept raids, and if u have one of the rare ones, u better be prepared. This is the motivation and goal i have for My VG, and i hope we can achieve atleast 1 of the 6 rare IoPs. and with the boost in Base-strengths, i can see it possible to defend one as well lol.
Well while I'd like to be positive and all, I change my mind after I see a rare ioP with my own eyes. No doubt devs will post a year later "oops, the rare IoP wasnt awarding correctly - fixed".
Maybe Im just a bit jaded about trying to get base raids happen with my own sg 
Afaik you need to open two raidwindows for each IoP which stack, meaning soon you have to defend all week long? Secondly, you wont be able to raid anyone but those who have more or same number of IoPs than yourself, right?
Plus I just dont see enough official info about base raids in general.. So I suspect the worst.
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oops, the rare IoP wasnt awarding correctly - fixed".
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lmao.. this is a very possible scenario. and u have reason to doubt raids. Since raids was introduced into CoX which is starting to close in on its 1st year, it is still bugged??? im amazed how this function of the game, that is supposed to be the reason we bought CoV, still dont have priority to be fully operationable. CoP is still locked after 9 months of theoretical access, since its not quite complete yet. Raids still reward us with debt, which has been a bug since day one and surely wouldnt be that hard to fix.
The reason ppl are loosing interest in raids, are that they never seem to be 'up and running' and frankly.. most ppl dont enjoy debt that much.. its only the fanatics that actually dont mind the debt. There is also the issue with some SG/VG making raids a high priority of SGs agenda, and by doing so becomes very, very strong compared to the grey mass of 'care-free' SGs. Not gonna make any propaganda or anything, but there are a very few numbers of SGs/VGs on Union that would stand a chance in our base. The same goes for most of the top 10 SGs. sure a battle between them is more even, but no1 is interested in spending a week of organising, 1 hour of endless instant dying, just to get Sgs morale lowered, trying to attack the stronger ones. And if i would say it myself.. i doubt most of the Top 10 SG/VG even would conciderate attacking eachother, since they are all a happy bunch that are more allies than enemies. even tho im sure most of them will give it their best shot to set our base on fire :P
I see raids as prolly 1 of the most fun events an SG can take part in, and the idea of all-out wars between SG/VGs in persuit of the perfect IoP is very exiting.. but will it ever work?
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even tho im sure most of them will give it their best shot to set our base on fire
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just wai till we igure how to band together and make tis happen
but anyway i have to agree with death altho my lots success with raids has been basicly to get bounced of every wall we got its always beena great laff just a pitty the devs seem distradcted by other shinny things about there office instead of fixing the bugs within this system
im not sure how having the cop finaly unlocked will change the current raids system if at all those that enjoy raids will continue to do so those that dont may do it once or twice to try out the hole iop system and may never do it again as has been the case with most of the pvp on cox only a few action nuts seem to stick with it the rest of the comunity tend to only pay atention during large events, however in saying that i have faith in the comunity if not the devs ones its up and running im sure we will find a way to make this work and benifit as many poeple as possible
There isnt a problem on earth that cant be solved with the proper aplication of hi explosive's
Darklords of the Underworld/Lords of Light forums [url="http://www.armleg.com/dlotu"]www.armleg.com/dlotu[/url]
Scotlands Bru ill/emp troller lvl 50
Monster Bru SS/stone brute lvl 50
Carman thugs/dark mm lvl 50
Ideally I'd like to see rent to be relative to either: player activity or base usage.
If your super-group goes inactive except for a couple of core players it is ridiculous they few players have to pay a fortune whilst desperately trying to fill the group with more people.
Ideally I'd like rent to be determined by the number of active players (IE online and in SG mode) actually making use of the base during a time period, or a surcharge for using items.
And non-operational bases (like my CoV one) shouldn't be accrewing rent at all. I wish I could scrap my base (now that my SG on CoH is totally inactive) rather than have it accrew month after month of rent for maybe a week's worth of usage.
You need a base online to entice members, which means you need to be paying vast amount of rent *before* you can get enough players in your SG to justify it! That makes no sense in terms of gameplay.
imho rent is still a stupid thing at all,i still dont get it why i have 2 pay rent for sumtin ive bought...
its idiotic,period! 
i know manny people think otherwise about it and even call it sumtin like taxes,but its called rent,and u dont pay rent for a thing u buy....
rent has to be taken out of the game completely imo.
It's an economy sink. It is to prevent an economy becoming saturated. Of course, as prestige is non-transferrable between SGs, it is 99.999% less useful than, say, a sink for influence would be. I think it likely that because influence can be transferred for prestige, they feel rent is necessary to stop super-rich players with tons of influence from being able to generate obscene amounts of prestige and thus end up with every base being ridiculously large. Unfortunately, as it stands, influence still runs rampant with people using it to twink their lowbies, and bases are tough to pay the rent on.
Also, as savlage can't be "farmed", it makes it unfair that there is an economy sink in position that penalises use of materials that are extraneous to the economy in that sense.
Salvage can be farmed - you just need to spend quite some time to get a decent amount.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
To be honest I dont think I have any problems with salvage. Ive got so much I dont know what to do with it as there is nothing I really need.
Rent wise yeah its a worry. The bigger you get, the more you are charged. As mentioned before it really does penalise you during quiet period. Its being looked into so theres not much more that can be done. Just have to wait and see what they decide. It would be nice to be kept informed of possible developments/twists - one that could make a big difference (well more to the bigger sgs) is having alts from one person classified as just 1 global character. However that wont solve the view that rent is a bad thing.
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
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Salvage can be farmed - you just need to spend quite some time to get a decent amount.
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Howso? As I remember when it was first introduced the powers that be made a big point of the fact that "drops are random, to prevent farming" etc. Has that changed? Or were they fibbing / misleading people to deter them from farming?
If you run missions in the PvP zones drop salvage as part of the mission complete. You can also increase your drop rate by taking out more bosses and lieu's. You can farm but not in the same way that people used to farm dreck.
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Salvage can be farmed - you just need to spend quite some time to get a decent amount.
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Howso? As I remember when it was first introduced the powers that be made a big point of the fact that "drops are random, to prevent farming" etc. Has that changed? Or were they fibbing / misleading people to deter them from farming?
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Well, in RV, for example, I'm there most nights, working on getting the last 2 inf badges, and there's a steady stream of salvage from the arachnos mobs there, and they give very little variation on what salvage they drop - spider eye/graphite composite/armor shard/arachnos blaster - so an hour or so there would guarantee you'd get one of these types of salvage several times.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Long story short - not mine it won't!
Long version - I currently have a small base for my one-player SG consisting solely of nine of my own alts.
Initially my base was nothing more than a vanity, just the basic entry portal room with some decorative items and furniture. Due, presumably, to the 'signing on bonus' for the first 15 (IIRC?) members, the bonus per member from the double XP weekend (my only likely sources of prestige, as I never play in SG mode) along with the pitifully low upkeep costs, I found that I had enough prestige (slightly shy of 200k) for over eight YEARS worth of rent!
When I discovered that I could play around and expand my base but still sell back anything I decided I didn't want for a full refund, and considering how much excess prestige I had (c'mon, realistically CoX probably won't even be running as-is in five years, never mind eight!) I decided to experiment a little and see if I could afford to make any useful changes. Turned out I could comfortably afford a second room containing an enhancement storage unit. I consider this to be extremely useful to me for a number of reasons. Firstly, it allows my high level toons to subsidise my lowbie alts without the need to ever trouble other players again with influence transfers. It's also handy when I'm teamed to be able to unload all enhancement pickups from missions in one place, rather than having to traipse round all the stores - especially as some city zones don't even have stores, but they do all have a base portal. Lastly, it's also very useful for my high lev toons to store any L51+ enhancements they get from AV missions (of which there seem to be plenty after you get into the 40's) until such time as they can actually slot them.
Most importantly, even after this expansion I'm left holding enough prestige for over two years rent, so no prestige grinding for me for a while. Anyway, I'd be very surprised indeed if there were't a few more double XP weekends in the next couple of years which I could use to make a reasonable amount of prestige for relatively little effort. Even considering that any extra prestige I earn will force my rent up, I think I'm probably quite well set up for my base to run almost indefinitely for little or no effort as long as I don't expand it, and as long as the devs don't decide to nerf it. As none of the other functional base items currently available seem that useful to me I really can't see me ever wanting or needing to expand my base further anyway. So, whilst my base and what I use it for is probably very far indeed from what the devs had in mind when they designed the system, I'm personally very happy with it, and the way rent/upkeep currently works.
You do know that mmore prestige means more rent? The increase in prestige that you recieved means that you will be getting hit for bigger rent bills.
But at the same time, if there's excess presteige in the bank, as that goes down, so will the rent!
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You do know that mmore prestige means more rent? The increase in prestige that you recieved means that you will be getting hit for bigger rent bills.
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Oh yes indeed, the final figures I've quoted are for after I'd expanded my base and take into account my highest amount of prestige AFTER I'd got the double XP windfall added to my member signing-on bonuses. These are the only sources of prestige I'm aware of, and so far they're one-time only. I've never earned prestige by playing in SG mode, nor do I ever intend to if I can possibly avoid it. I've filled all my slots on Defiant so I can't make any more toons to join my SG without first deleting some, and I don't intend to allow anyone else into my SG, so I can't really see any other means by which my prestige could possibly increase and thereby increase my liability for base rent (until/unless there is another double XP weekend, and assuming there is once again bonus prestige awarded simply for toons being in an SG)
...sooo, as I understand it...
...rent is based on how much prestige I hold, or have ever earned, I'm not entirely sure which, but it doesn't really matter much either way because...
...I currently have enough prestige in hand to pay my latest rent demand over 50 times before running out...
...and whilst I do intend to pay my rent (every fortnight or so?) I do NOT intend to do anything that might earn me any more prestige...
...meaning that my rent (whether it's based on total prestige ever earned, or just on prestige currently held) cannot get any higher than it currently is - in fact, over time my total prestige will gradually be decreasing as each rent payment is deducted...
...meaning I can presumably keep my base running for two years or so paying my rent forthightly at the current rate, just as long as I don't do anything stupid to actually increase the rent demand, i.e. by earning more prestige...
...which I SO don't intend to do!
...or am I missing something? - I will freely admit, I'm not terribly clued up on how the whole thing works.
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But at the same time, if there's excess presteige in the bank, as that goes down, so will the rent!
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If that's really the case, then I'm even better off than I thought I was! 
Even if I'm not... like I said, I have enough prestige banked for around two years rent at current prices... realistically, I doubt if I'll still be playing CoX in two years time.
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But at the same time, if there's excess presteige in the bank, as that goes down, so will the rent!
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if this was the case then to avoid rent all you would have to do is spend all the sotred presitge on say storage devices so you got nothing in the bank and your rent would be near to zero unfortunitly this is not the case rent is worked out by the totla amount of prestige your group has earned from day one of creation so there is no way for it to go down only up
There isnt a problem on earth that cant be solved with the proper aplication of hi explosive's
Darklords of the Underworld/Lords of Light forums [url="http://www.armleg.com/dlotu"]www.armleg.com/dlotu[/url]
Scotlands Bru ill/emp troller lvl 50
Monster Bru SS/stone brute lvl 50
Carman thugs/dark mm lvl 50
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But at the same time, if there's excess presteige in the bank, as that goes down, so will the rent!
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Total prestige cant go down for any other reason except rent itself, as total prestige owned (whether in bank or in items/base) does not change when you use editor. Therefore, rent does not get smaller either, except if you dont earn more after you have paid it.
If the SG goes quiet, the rent remains high (one of my main grifes) and even if there is somebody to sell stuff and keep paying rent, the base will eventually degenerate until theres nothing left. Back to square one.
well, regarding salvage farming.. u can farm the lower types and PvP-specials. just as if u would farm SOs, ie nemesis will reward with tech SOs and certain Nemesis salvage. but there is a probability equation that enters this system. the result is that u have a huge chance of acuire salvage used to build basic components, and almost no chance (id guess 1% or so) of gaining a salvage used for expert components.
Some1 said to me that arcane salvage for expert components are less common than tech version, tho i seriously doubt this. but i see some diff in salvage drops regarding enemy.. ie Arcane SGs should farm CoT where u get alot of arcane salvage. Since im addicted to PvP-missions, i can confirm that besides the standard tier 3 special salvage for completion, the bosses reward probably 90% salvage needed for tech components. But when it comes to farm salvage needed for expert-components, i havent seen any easy way to do this. they are very rare drops, and can accour at any time against any enemy. (tho im sure we are talking lvl 40+ since it became alot more frequent in i7 than i6 even tho i played my 40s alot in i6. but i cant confirm this to be true, but im positive probability scales with lvl)
And as max said. Salvage for big SGs after the salvage racks introduction, has becomed odd. We also has insane amounts of salvage and there is nothing to use it for, unless u want to build stupid things u dont need. Tho im sure this will be usefull with Empowerment stations where u actually can afford to boost teams performance alot. (Thx for the boost on that btw)
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Total prestige cant go down for any other reason except rent itself, as total prestige owned (whether in bank or in items/base) does not change when you use editor. Therefore, rent does not get smaller either, except if you dont earn more after you have paid it.
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Really? I had about 190,000 prestige before I made any functional changes to my base. After adding the room with an enhancement storage unit (and a few more bits of non-functional furniture and decoration) I now have just 73,120. I wonder where that 120,000-odd prestige went?
Anyway, my latest rent demand is 781, and I actually miscalculated how many rent payments at that rate I could make - the 73,000 odd prestige I currently have equals 93 rent payments. That will keep me going for about 3 years and 7 months, assuming I pay promptly every fortnight and don't do anything stupid like earning any more prestige
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Really? I had about 190,000 prestige before I made any functional changes to my base. After adding the room with an enhancement storage unit (and a few more bits of non-functional furniture and decoration) I now have just 73,120. I wonder where that 120,000-odd prestige went?
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DUH
it is in the rooms and items whose value count when the total prestige owned is calculated for the RENT
Get it now? If you sell everything you have the same prestige that you started with minus the rent that you may have paid. Only rent lowers the total prestige owned.
Ahh, right, I see, thanks - sorry for being slow there. So, bottom line for me is that as long as I don't build any new stuff and don't do anything to increase my prestige, I can keep my existing base running as-is for well over three years with the prestige I currently hold. Bonzer
People play the game in different ways, and one persons idea of bases is different to anothers.
What bugs me as a leader in a large sg is the rapid increase in rent compared to the earning rate. As our members reach level 50 we end up having to swap them over to another storage sg to make room for new lowbies just to earn prestige to keep the base running.
I'm not sure exactly what the devs ideas were when they came up with the system as they are very quiet about the whole thing, but a red name said months ago that it was not wai. What they mean by that I don't know, but I do know that a lot of people wanted to run an sg as a small intimate group of friends with a fully functional base, not as an impersonal monster obsessed with recruiting new members just so they can upgrade the power control and base hospital.
We have 75 members and are roughly number 25 in the top 100 groups. Most of the members are active, but like to have anything up to 6 different alts in the group. Earning rent becomes difficult when there are not 75 seperate people earning prestige. I think the figure is closer to 40 people playing 75. In my experience with the coalition our sg isn't alone in this. We like the players we chat with and if we create a new alt we are going to add it to the one group not spread them out over different groups to the detriment of prestige earning. If rent is based on total prestige earned/ value of base then it will always be a problem with the law of diminishing returns. The more prestige we earn, the more rent we pay, and the more rent we pay, the more prestige we need to earn to pay it.
Ultimately, what is the point of rent? Why do we need to be penalised for something that is in no way affecting gameplay? Surely it is better for small groups to get the same level playing field as large groups. Large ones will obviously get things quicker than small ones, but small ones will get there in the end. The way it works at the moment, small groups are going to grind to a halt at a lower level than large ones just because they hit the rent ceiling where everything they earn is going straight out again every month. If the prestige cap was removed, and increased per level the same way that inf and xp do then it wouldn't matter. At the moment, after level 25 and certainly 35 the prestige earning is drastically reduced. As the sg members go up in level you have to recruit low level members, not because they are friends or you like them, but because they are low level and have half a million prestige tucked in their belt. This is like the x-men setting up a stall at the local high school careers fair next to Magneto and competing for members because the rents due. "Join the x-men and get a free i-pod." "No, join the brotherhood of evil mutants and get a free i-mac and a coupon for a bikini waxing!" It aint gonna happen.
As a small SG with only a few members, base rent is a real issue. We struggle to build our base as it is and then just when we think we've got enough prestige to actually buy something worthwhile, the rent bill comes through and bang... we're suddenly quite poor again.
I don't really understand the pricing structure of rent or the reason behind it to be truthful. I can't see how it can benefit the game or the SG, especially given the exhorbitant prices of the basic necessities of a decent base.
I really hope the "look" that bases are due to get straightens the whole thing out. Certainly, as things stand, the whole Base system doesn't favour small SGs which IMO is wrong
Thelonious Monk