Forge
Heat Exhaustion
Benumb
Infrigidate (and find me another tier 1 power that's as good as this)
Energy Transfer (I know tanks can get it, but on Stalkers it's ridiculous)
Kuji-in-Retsu
There are a few which are overlooked as well, such as Poison Gas Trap.
hide
AS
domination
placate
hide is a power you always get on a stalker but its how you use it that matters
Domination building can affect how a dominator is built
Placate and AS can be devastating but are not vital to builds hence changes builds
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
There's a fair bit built into Villain powers which give them an edge in PvP.
Domination - if you can build it up fast enough it makes Dominators very powerful, both in control and damage.
Poison - not available to heroes and extremely potent in PvP, you can check the numbers in the Prima PDF.
Placate - no hero equivalent, very powerful if someone knows how to play a Stalker.
MM in Bodyguard - I'm a complete novice at playing an MM, not especially fond of MMs and yet already had heroes complaining about this.
Do Villains know about their powers and play them all effectively in PvP? aha, that's another kettle of fish.
Powerboosted buffs > normal buffs = CoH > CoV
50s
controllers: Ill rad , grav rad, fire kin, ice kin
blaster: ice em
scrapper: spines sr
[ QUOTE ]
Powerboosted buffs > normal buffs = CoH > CoV
[/ QUOTE ]
Dominators also get Power Boost, so I don't see how this is a CoH vs CoV thing.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Powerboosted buffs > normal buffs = CoH > CoV
[/ QUOTE ]
Dominators also get Power Boost, so I don't see how this is a CoH vs CoV thing.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dominators don't get buffs though, as far as I know.
Powerboosted Fortitude, Recovery and Regen Aura, Adrenaline Boost, Accelerated Metabolism, Speedboost etc...
End recovery isn't affected by PB. Feel free to disagree, but it's easy to check by yourself : use PB, use aura, nuke (so you're at 0 end), time the time it takes you to get back to full end. Do the same without using PB before the aura.
Yes, I know _Castle_ made a post saying end recovery was affected by PB, in fact I tried AM and SB end recovery with PB right after reading this, and was quite disappointed to find out he was wrong.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Powerboosted buffs > normal buffs = CoH > CoV
[/ QUOTE ]
Dominators also get Power Boost, so I don't see how this is a CoH vs CoV thing.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dominators don't get buffs though, as far as I know.
Powerboosted Fortitude, Recovery and Regen Aura, Adrenaline Boost, Accelerated Metabolism, Speedboost etc...
[/ QUOTE ]
Not exactly, except for Aid Self and and Def they have and boosting secondary effects. I can't see that Power Boost is better than Domination to make the statement CoH > CoV because of it.
It's just ignorance about Dominators...maybe that's a bit of a strong way of putting it, you could say Corruptors don't get Power Boost and are therefore out-buffed by controllers, which might be reasonable. If you look at the villain inherents they seem a bit more powerful than Hero inherent powers, with the exception of Scrappers - criticals are insanely powerful in PvP.
A straight comparison between Patron pools and Ancillary pools doesn't quite work because of the other things people have mentioned. I don't think there is that big of a problem. Would I like the choice to take an Ancillary powerset? well yes; would I give up Domination for Ancillary powers? not a chance!
[ QUOTE ]
End recovery isn't affected by PB. Feel free to disagree, but it's easy to check by yourself : use PB, use aura, nuke (so you're at 0 end), time the time it takes you to get back to full end. Do the same without using PB before the aura.
Yes, I know _Castle_ made a post saying end recovery was affected by PB, in fact I tried AM and SB end recovery with PB right after reading this, and was quite disappointed to find out he was wrong.
[/ QUOTE ]
Except that when you fire a nuke, the -recovery debuff is so great that it requires power boosted AB and RA to overcome it. You won't see the effects of it if you just nuke and wait because of the suppression.
[ QUOTE ]
Forge
Heat Exhaustion
Benumb
Infrigidate (and find me another tier 1 power that's as good as this)
Energy Transfer (I know tanks can get it, but on Stalkers it's ridiculous)
Kuji-in-Retsu
There are a few which are overlooked as well, such as Poison Gas Trap.
[/ QUOTE ]
Frostwork also deserves a place on that list, as well as the debuffs in /Poison - Envenom, Weaken - that Filth mentioned.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Powerboosted buffs > normal buffs = CoH > CoV
[/ QUOTE ]
Dominators also get Power Boost, so I don't see how this is a CoH vs CoV thing.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dominators don't get buffs though, as far as I know.
Powerboosted Fortitude, Recovery and Regen Aura, Adrenaline Boost, Accelerated Metabolism, Speedboost etc...
[/ QUOTE ]
Not exactly, except for Aid Self and and Def they have and boosting secondary effects. I can't see that Power Boost is better than Domination to make the statement CoH > CoV because of it. It's just ignorance about Dominators.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't you agree though, that Powerboost benefits Heroes a lot more than Villains? It would be a different story if Corruptors had access to Powerboost, which they don't. In Heroes, Blasters, Controllers and Defenders have access to it, so you can understand how it can give them a massive advantage.
And the discussion was never about if Powerboost is better than Domination. There is no question that Domination is infinitely better than Powerboost on a Dominator, but that's also because Dominators get a lot less benefit out of Powerboost compared to some of the Hero AT's.
[ QUOTE ]
Dominators get a lot less benefit out of Powerboost compared to some of the Hero AT's.
[/ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't say that Dominators get less benefit from it - for some Doms, it can affect both primary and secondary when active, which is more than some CoH toons who have it - but it's true that it doesn't benefit a team as much to have a Powerboosted Dominate or Bonesmasher as it would a Powerboosted Regen Aura, for most situations.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't you agree though, that Powerboost benefits Heroes a lot more than Villains? It would be a different story if Corruptors had access to Powerboost, which they don't. In Heroes, Blasters, Controllers and Defenders have access to it, so you can understand how it can give them a massive advantage.
And the discussion was never about if Powerboost is better than Domination. There is no question that Domination is infinitely better than Powerboost on a Dominator, but that's also because Dominators get a lot less benefit out of Powerboost compared to some of the Hero AT's.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes I agree 
...just edited my post above.
I would say that the villain inherents (Domination being a big one) are one of the tradeoffs for not having some of the specific Ancillary powers
[ QUOTE ]
I would say that the villain inherents (Domination being a big one) are one of the tradeoffs for not having some of the specific Ancillary powers
[/ QUOTE ]
True, Scourge is far more useful and powerful than Defiance (not that I'm drawing a straight comparison between Corruptors and Blasters). Likewise, under the right conditions, Fury is an awesome inherent - I don't anything else that can down a Scrapper in the space of a few attacks.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would say that the villain inherents (Domination being a big one) are one of the tradeoffs for not having some of the specific Ancillary powers
[/ QUOTE ]
True, Scourge is far more useful and powerful than Defiance (not that I'm drawing a straight comparison between Corruptors and Blasters). Likewise, under the right conditions, Fury is an awesome inherent - I don't anything else that can down a Scrapper in the space of a few attacks.
[/ QUOTE ]
AS strike followed up by an attack? Blasters can 3 shoot scrappers.
[ QUOTE ]
I would say that the villain inherents (Domination being a big one) are one of the tradeoffs for not having some of the specific Ancillary powers
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed, Villain inherents are much superior to Hero inherents. Is Bodyguard now considered part of the MM inherent btw? I don't think there is even one bad villain inherent power at this time. I would have considered the MM inherent to be weak, but that was before Bodyguard.
As for the Hero inherents, I like Containment a lot. Critical hits can be good, but unreliable. Defiance has the same problem really, it has the potential to be awesome, but I think the risk/reward ratio is a bit off there. It's strange really, as Scourge is just basically reversed Defiance and that is just awesome.
I don't know how good Gauntlet or Vigilance can be as I haven't noticed them much while playing to be honest. I most likely wouldn't miss them, if they weren't there, something I couldn't say for the other Inherents.
Overall a fairly good tradeoff for "superior" Ancillary powers. They are still considered superior now, but i'm sceptic towards the future, as I'm thinking some villains will find ways to make their Ancillary powers work better than expected.
Villain inherents superior to Hero inherents? Joking?
AS needs conditions to be used, unresistable Criticals, a portion of unresistable Blaster damage nor unresistable debuffs don't. Heroes have multiple inherents compared to Villains. Heroes do well without their inherents, but Villains were given these inherents to work their whole thing around it, without their inherent they are weak as heck, and things are balanced when Villains are using their inherents and Heroes aren't. (But they still do)
Domination sure is a force to be reckoned with, but how can you build it if you are dead the second they see you? An impale or an Aim + BU combo can shred the Dominator apart, and all in 2 seconds.
The only burst damage option for villains are Stalkers, and that can be negated EASILY. Aim+BU combos can only be survived by running away, and "you run away = I win!!!"
Sure, Corruptors have uber sets like Cold Domination and Radiation Emission, but the only Corruptors you'll see around are /Dark and /Thermal.
Empathy has CM, which is just an Anti-Stalker gotten at level 8 (or 16 if you're a troller), and that set is the most popular of the Defender sets.
Villains have also bad epics, sure, we get armor, but Heroes get them too! And godmodes! FA! Indomitable will! Force of Nature! And villains get... a subpar pet which lasts 4 mins with a 15 min recharger. Compare a Blaster's Force of Nature to a Corruptor's pet, say Arachnobot Disruptor. The Blaster will chew through the Disruptor, or just ignore it and kill the Corruptor in 2 hits. Blap!
Heroes have more sheer firepower, Villain ATs need more skill to play with, but a skilled Hero will always take out a skilled Villain, at least in the 50s when Heroes have many advantages compared to Villains.
.. Gah, might aswell turn to the hero side and become a freaking do-gooder myself.
i do think the villain patron powers suck big time in comparison to heros, they were supposed to be more powerful to make up for not being able to swap them but are they hell.
The pet is a joke and has little functionality in pvp as far as I can tell, i dont think I have specced in patron powers for any of my alts but corrupters for the armour and end drain.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
I misread the topic, villains have just as many if not more uber powers.
But in teams 5-10 people against 5-10 people(same number equal skill min maxed out toons). Heroes are stronger cause their buffs are better because of powerboost and the fact that emps dont have a rooting heal aura where as the villain main healer/buffer(thermal) heal aura roots. Leaving you with a really squishie person unless you get another thermal on the team.
Right now I dont see villains fighting a maxed out hero team at lvl 50 and winning. Hope this clarifies what I meant.
50s
controllers: Ill rad , grav rad, fire kin, ice kin
blaster: ice em
scrapper: spines sr
[ QUOTE ]
I misread the topic, villains have just as many if not more uber powers.
But in teams 5-10 people against 5-10 people(same number equal skill min maxed out toons). Heroes are stronger cause their buffs are better because of powerboost and the fact that emps dont have a rooting heal aura where as the villain main healer/buffer(thermal) heal aura roots. Leaving you with a really squishie person unless you get another thermal on the team.
Right now I dont see villains fighting a maxed out hero team at lvl 50 and winning. Hope this clarifies what I meant.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think most agree with this, I hope going rogue makes it to live as would really spice things up in the zones on both sides, I have my stalker hunting stalker at the ready 
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
[ QUOTE ]
I think most agree with this, I hope going rogue makes it to live as would really spice things up in the zones on both sides, I have my stalker hunting stalker at the ready
[/ QUOTE ]
But isn't the idea of 'going rogue' to even things up just confirmation that it is so unbalanced?
I've seen a few villain powers mentioned here with regards to how good they are but a lot of them have a similar or comparable CoH equivalent(Forge and fortitude being an example) or they are powers that, while being good, aren't actually set/build defining.
I agree the villain inherents do seem better but how often can brutes build fury enough for it to make a difference? By the time it starts kicking in on a one on one, the enemy is dead or the brute is dead. Even if the brute is the winner chances are rage would have dropped before he gets to his next target, putting you back at square one(maybe the drop off rate should be lessened in PvP?). Domination is even worse and I think I can count on the fingers of one hand the amount of times i've actually seen Dom's stay alive long enough in PvP to actually use it.
Yes, scourge is great but hide is of limited use at the more advanced PvP level. Most people know how to counter AS at advanced levels so a stalker needs to rely on the criticals from normal attacks, while hidden, as their main strength. Criticals that scrappers get without the need to be hidden and have a much higher HP count as well.
Again, some of the buffs/debuffs mentioned are VERY good on CoH but they don't change the way you play or build you're toon. I can't really recall any powers I've got on a CoV toon that made me so much more effective I needed to respec to make the most of them (Focussed Accuracy for example) or that made my PvP survivability.kill rate go through the roof(Force Of Nature).
Debuff wise, CoV does have the edge but in terms of buffs we fall way behind. In terms of PvE, I love my thermal but when it comes to PvP, they don't hold a candle to empaths. People have mentioned the ridiculous rooting on thermal heals and buffs but no mention seems to have been made of just how weak our heals are in comparison to an empath. I'd drop Melt Armour amd Heat Exhaustion any day of the week for an increase in the strength of his heals and to lose the rooting. After all, debuff's should always be a secondary concern of a thermal in team PvP, if I wanted a debuffer i'd get a rad or ice not a thermal.
To put it another way, if people could put together an 8 man PvP team with any builds of their choice, how many villain builds would actually make it in? I'm guessing two at most and don't think brutes or Dom's would even get a sniff.
[ QUOTE ]
i do think the villain patron powers suck big time in comparison to heros, they were supposed to be more powerful to make up for not being able to swap them but are they hell.
The pet is a joke and has little functionality in pvp as far as I can tell, i dont think I have specced in patron powers for any of my alts but corrupters for the armour and end drain.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, but this might mean that they get buffed later on. After the ED fiasco the devs decided to introduce powers as a bit weak and buff them later if necessary - if I understood things correctly. Currently lot of patron powers are pretty bad in PvP imo.
Now, this isn't a rant or anything but a genuine discussion to see if it's just my perception(prompted by some comments made about aid self).
We all know that when PvP first came along, it was dreadfully unbalanced and now it is getting a bit better. However, one thing that bothers me is that it seems the Dev's learend from their mistakes BEFORE CoV and as a result, a lot of the 'uber' powers just aren't available.
While I applaud the fact that they've learned and made CoV builds a lot more even in terms of PvP, the problem comes when those villains go up against heroes. The simple fact is that, particularly in terms of patron powers, there are very few of those 'standout' powers that make some builds in CoH so useful. I know for a fact that when I got Focussed Accuracy on my scrapper, it completely changed the way I built him for PvP but there's noting in the CoV side that has a similar effect. Let's recap and list a few here:
Focussed Accuracy
Power Boost
Hibernate
Quick Recover
Force Of Nature
Conserve Power
When I try to think of CoV powers that can single handedly change a build, they really are few and far between.