A little part of me has just died hearing that... 
Could be a tongue-in-cheek reference to the way lots of players *do* see influence as money? Breaking the fourth wall and what-not.
Er, Raven, try not to take War Witch's script too seriously.... 
Personally, I quite like this sort of thing; a lot of comics break the fourth wall at times, and it always gives me a giggle when done right in CoX ("Are you sure you're using Inspirations?").
Your mileage may vary, of course.
Don't rag on War Witch - she seems to have a great sense of humor - it's only one remark out of hundreds
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
To Max and Syra,
Yes, I have bought and enjoyed self-referential comics. I am a great fan of Sluggy.com, which does it a lot. I still have the four issue Nightcrawler mini-series, complete with 'Wolverine' striking a match on the frame of the panel he's in.
However, those comics share one thing in common:
They are comedies.
They aren't meant to be taken seriously.
There are some great bits of comedy in CoX, and most of them, even when it is self-referential, manage not to actually break the difference between game mechanics and game reality. Comments which have NPCs referring specifically to game mechanics as if it was the real world break immersion. I don't even think this one was funny, it's basically a big bruiser demanding money with menaces.
In short, if you're right, then I'm happy to consider this game to be City of Comedy Heroes, and I'll go build myself a clown character.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
How many comments are self-referential, though? They seem to be in the tiny minority as near as I can tell; with a few groups being fairly "light" in places anyway - Freakshow spring to mind, as does the Civic Squad - I'm not overly jarred by things such as this.
Without wanting to sound hostile, I think it's best to just take the comments as they're intended; humour. CoX - in my eyes - doesn't lose anything for occasionally breaking away from a "serious" tone, and I feel it's all the better for that; I doubt Westin Phipps' arc would have been anywhere near as effective if the previous contact was relatively lighthearted, for example.
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I'm not overly jarred by things such as this.
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I know that, Syra. You get jarred by almost nothing aside from people taking the background seriously. 
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How many comments are self-referential, though?
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That makes two, which kind of makes my point for me. There's plenty of humour, and now they seem to be adding stuff which breaks the IC/OOC line.
You seem to have this concept that I don't like the game to be funny in places. I'm not sure where you've got that idea, did you simply not read my last post properly?
You also seem to have an idea that comedy needs to reference the game mechanics to be funny... except that obviously isn't your idea, because you start this post by pointing out how little self-referential humour there is in the game.
So, are you arguing for the sake of arguing, or can you genuinely not tell the difference between breaking IC/OOC lines and being funny?
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
No, actually, I'm just saying that the self-referencing I've seen amuses me; not that something has to break the fourth wall in order to be funny. 
I can tell the difference, and I still say....lighten up. "Kill Skulz" was adopted in-game by Cryptic (hell, the Skulls backstory references it, and there's a certain story arc in Cap au Diable that includes a vengeful group of Skulls venting their frustration against a civilian caught saying it), and a lot of people - as mentioned above - keep thinking Influence/Infamy purely counts as money. I don't see the harm in breaking the OOC/IC lines every so often, especially when the times they do it are so minor and sporadic.
A lot of games do it these days. WoW, EverQuest, Neocron, EvE....etc. Yet, despite that, the games still retain a strong narrative and cohesive - by MMO standards - storyline.
Phew! I saw the subject and thought for a minute, "Oh no... He's gonna leave..." Glad I was wrong!
You have a point there though, about the dialog, and several other things. I've seen one or two quote along those lines you mention and it made me do a double take. But I just sighed and tried to forget it.
What I DID find hard to ignore though was yesterday in Kings Row, when I came across THREE Paladins in a group...
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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I can tell the difference, and I still say....lighten up.
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That's the thing, see, I'm a roleplayer, not a gamer. I see things like this and it annoys me because it demonstrates the contempt Cryptic have for their own backstory. You, on the other hand, don't see a roleplaying game, you see a game that lets you progress your character and has a loosely stitched narrative holding it together, and you don't care.
I do care. I don't like to see this kind of thing because I know Cryptic don't need this kind of thing to make the game light-hearted. When they do use this kind of humour, it demonstrates that they no longer care about their setting either.
When CoH actually does become a parody of itself, then I will leave for good. For now... frankly I'd largely given up roleplaying in the game anyway, so deciding the developers don't care about their setting anymore hardly makes a great deal of difference.
There you go, I lightened up, in a dark sort of way.
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What I DID find hard to ignore though was yesterday in Kings Row, when I came across THREE Paladins in a group...
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I always thought three Luscas was a little silly... Maybe Paly has been taking lessons from the squid.
(I assume Paladin, like Lusca, is now not worth the effort of taking down, so we're seeing multiples starting to appear.)
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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What I DID find hard to ignore though was yesterday in Kings Row, when I came across THREE Paladins in a group...
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Roland, Oliver and Holger the Dane, perhaps?
As with most of these things, the problem is solved with liberal application of fudge! Simply alter what was said to your own tastes, such as replacing 'influence' with 'money', and viola!
I am very much a roleplayer. But this game, sadly, isn't designed for RP. Almost none are, with even Neverwinter Nights, for example, being incredibly limited. We have to make do with what we've got until we can actually persuade game developers that we make better customers than random 'lol' idiot types.
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That's the thing, see, I'm a roleplayer, not a gamer. I see things like this and it annoys me because it demonstrates the contempt Cryptic have for their own backstory. You, on the other hand, don't see a roleplaying game, you see a game that lets you progress your character and has a loosely stitched narrative holding it together, and you don't care.
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Now now, just because I have certain expectations of MMORPGs doesn't mean I "don't care".
That said, however, I'll just agree to disagree and leave it at that. I seriously doubt either one of us will convince the other to change their view.
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As with most of these things, the problem is solved with liberal application of fudge! Simply alter what was said to your own tastes, such as replacing 'influence' with 'money', and viola!
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I don't think you're getting the point. The point isn't what was said, the point is what was implied. What was implied was that the developers don't take the game seriously anymore.
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But this game, sadly, isn't designed for RP.
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I've been saying that since EU beta.
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Almost none are, with even Neverwinter Nights, for example, being incredibly limited.
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By its very nature, Neverwinter was almost certainly the most likely game for use in Computer-based Roleplaying, simply due to the fact you could design the modules anyway you liked (obviously within some limits). Many of the scripting systems produced to get around issues with the natural static nature of modules were nothing short of genius. (And no, I had nothing to do with writing those.)
Compared to Neverwinter, CoH doesn't even scrape above the horizon.
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We have to make do with what we've got until we can actually persuade game developers that we make better customers than random 'lol' idiot types.
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Sadly, we don't because there are a lot more idiots than roleplayers and it's volume that counts. Yes, we're likely to play longer than a gamer (on average) because we don't care so much about hitting the level cap. Yes, we make the devs' job easier because we provide our own content so they could actually get away with doing far less to satisfy us.
Unfortunately, we are demographically not substantial enough to bother with.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
Shrug, one more comment typed in wrongly or with typos. We all do it. Yeesh.
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Shrug, one more comment typed in wrongly or with typos. We all do it. Yeesh.
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Eh?
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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What I DID find hard to ignore though was yesterday in Kings Row, when I came across THREE Paladins in a group...
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I guess now's as good a time as any to explain it to you - what happens is that when a giant mommy robot and a giant daddy robot love each other very much...
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I don't think you're getting the point. The point isn't what was said, the point is what was implied. What was implied was that the developers don't take the game seriously anymore.
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I think you're overstating your case. It's just a single line of dialogue, after all, and to take it as isolated evidence of the developers not taking the game seriously seems entirely exaggerated. For all we know, it might just be the result of a "Monday morning brain short-circuit" that nobody caught.
Besides, wouldn't it be dreadfully dull if the developers took the game entirely serious? To quote Piet Hein "They who just see jokes as jokes and grave things only gravely, he or she has understood both the issues badly." (Hmmm. That sounded better in the original Danish. Ah well, I'm sure you see the point.)
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For all we know, it might just be the result of a "Monday morning brain short-circuit" that nobody caught.
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Apparently, it's not the only case since Syra quotes at least one other case.
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Besides, wouldn't it be dreadfully dull if the developers took the game entirely serious?
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Yes, it would. As I've now said several times, you can put humour in the game without resorting to breaking IC/OOC barriers. I know Cryptic can do it because they have done quite successfully.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
OR
The Hellion might be self-referencing
Or The Hellion might have might a 'typo'
Or he might be high
Or he might have overheard it from a Hero and not know what it means
Or virtually every other game in the world breaks the IC/OOC barrier (WoW shreds it)
OR that games that want to rationale everything (See the elimination of the Assassin Class in 2nd ed D&D,) do it with such clumsiness.(Waterdeep)
Or...it might just be humour....I'm sure there's a few Clown Superheroes running around.
Even Captain Carnage (Watchmen) wasn't really serious...
Given you've already accepted Teleportation Fields (Breaks at least 3 Physical Laws, 2 Biological, 1 Chemical, a few Quantum Physics), Empathy Powerset, Falls from buildings, Temporal Travel etc. I hardly think that one person saying something that doesn't make sense in a direct OOC comment really hurts that much; and if it does, why?
I challenge you to find ONE RPG of any sort that doesn't break the fourth wall at times.
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The Hellion might be self-referencing
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Then he would have said "You owe me MORE Hellion", surely?
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Or he might have overheard it from a Hero and not know what it means
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Well, depending what you meant...
1. He's a piece of software, he can't 'overhear' anything.
2. A hero wouldn't refer to Influence either, Inf is a game mechanic. If the Hellion had said "You owe me ANOTHER favour" I wouldn't have the issue.
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Or virtually every other game in the world breaks the IC/OOC barrier (WoW shreds it)
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And this is an excuse because?
(When I say things like that, someone usually jumps down my throat about CoH should be striving to be better than other games.)
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OR that games that want to rationale everything (See the elimination of the Assassin Class in 2nd ed D&D,) do it with such clumsiness.(Waterdeep)
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Huh?
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Or...it might just be humour....I'm sure there's a few Clown Superheroes running around.
Even Captain Carnage (Watchmen) wasn't really serious...
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So you haven't even bothered to read my previous posts then? Cool, but I really thought better of you, Weasel.
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Given you've already accepted Teleportation Fields (Breaks at least 3 Physical Laws, 2 Biological, 1 Chemical, a few Quantum Physics), Empathy Powerset, Falls from buildings, Temporal Travel etc. I hardly think that one person saying something that doesn't make sense in a direct OOC comment really hurts that much; and if it does, why?
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That is a pointless and rather ridiculous argument. In game, in character things which don't fit in with OOC reality does not justify OOC comments being made by in-game NPCs.
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I challenge you to find ONE RPG of any sort that doesn't break the fourth wall at times.
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RPG or CRPG?
I figure I can probably find hundreds of RPGs that don't do it. How about you go find me an IC/OOC conflict in one of the Storyteller games from White-Wolf?
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
Or maybe in the CoH gameworld there's a computer game that uses Influence instead of money, and the Hellion and his pal play it, and reference it as an inside joke between them whenever they go mugging people? 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
In light of the rikti invasion america has changed its currency from dollars to influence.
Is that a good explaination?
Well, given as rationalisation is being ignored. White Wolf's Samuel Haight? The Entire Blood/Feed Mechanic being now part of conversation? The MET using deliberate justification to drop the fourth wall; as well as clumsy inexplicable rules to force Vampire Sleep, Wraith Regeneration, Changeling Cantrip keeping; Habeus Corpus in the Wraith Arcanos (Disciplines/Arcanos etc.), Generations from Caine, Humanity Checks...
And please don't go on the 'I expected better of you' kick. We can all see you're upset, it's just some of us can ignore disparities, or even better, make something useful out of them.
You're entire reaction to this is OOC; perhaps Stormcrow could find out why he said that?
Last night I was busy running about with my new blaster and I came across a Hellion demanding influence from someone. And I quote: "You owe me MORE influence."
)
How can you owe Inf?
It's supposed to be a representation of your ability to get favours. I know they keep eroding that concept with stupid design choices, butt his is finally it. Now, the people doing the dialogue for NPCs don't actually understand the setting design.
War Witch sure went down in my estimations last night.
(Aside from that, I love my blaster!
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.