It was simply just an idea to enable as many IC-players as possible to identify and get in touch with each other and see whether their respective playstyles and concepts warranted for further teaming 
The coalition idea was just a spur of the moment thought as a possible in-game supporting functionality, but I can see now why it may not work due to the limits it imposes.
BTW, to Aisla, I just saw your post on the other thread, and agree that meeting earlier at GG might be a good idea, as long as it isn't seen as "intrusive" given the relatively recent posts about GG perhaps becoming too crowded.
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where the only actual requirement was love for sensical roleplaying.
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What does that mean? 'Sensical' isn't a word, so I'm assuming this has some specific meaning I haven't grasped. 
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You know, it *did* look funny to me. Apparently I am inventing words again. ...which is a bad tactic seeing how many perfectly fine words exist already.
Um... duh?
As one of the members of the Fletched Alliance I think I should add my opinion, so here goes....
An actual coalition between RP SG's can only be formed after members from each of the groups has got to know the members from the other/s. The FA and the WEE have a coalition status based upon all of the FA's members knowing Red Commissar and when he started the WEE we trusted his judgement and offered our assistance if it was ever needed for any matters that he needed us for. We didn't know all the members but as I said, we all knew RC and that his work ethic as a hero was very similar to ours.
To form a coalition with a group or several groups that we knew little or nothing about would be rather unwise when thought out from an IC point of view, there may be conflicts of interest, methods of actual crime fighting (quite possibly including Veskit's addiction to making labs run by Crey and Council troops kinda explode when he visits) to just personal opinions of other people.
I personally think that the best way to organise this IC missioning would be to attend GG and maybe requesting assistance or asking if anyone fancies getting a little exercise, this is more likely to result in lest problems than any of the problems mentioned by Aisla, and any of the people there could then decide if this would fit in with which ever toon they happen to be playing at the time, (I have a nasty habit of bouncing between about 4 char's that I RP with as my mood changes and depending on the crowd at GG, some are more sociable than others, all of them like to smash things over the heads of bad guys though 
)
Maybe giving this a try before deciding that anything more rigidly organised would be for the best, and could then lead to the toons in question getting to know each other and THEN leading to coalitions between SG's.
Feel free to ignore or consider this as you see fit, but thats just how I'd do it to start off with. having said that, my usual RP method is "When in doubt, wing it" so my advice might not be the best. 
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where the only actual requirement was love for sensical roleplaying.
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What does that mean? 'Sensical' isn't a word, so I'm assuming this has some specific meaning I haven't grasped.
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You know, it *did* look funny to me. Apparently I am inventing words again. ...which is a bad tactic seeing how many perfectly fine words exist already.
Um... duh?
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Fair enough, but what did you mean by it. Taking it as Finn suggests "sensible roleplay", what does that mean?
As far as I can see, what it means is "willing to roleplay on missions", and IMHO, that's very much not a sensible thing to do.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Fair enough, but what did you mean by it. Taking it as Finn suggests "sensible roleplay", what does that mean?
As far as I can see, what it means is "willing to roleplay on missions", and IMHO, that's very much not a sensible thing to do.
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I meant sensible. I'm trying to broaden my views from SWG times where we had a very strict look on the IG world and had to exclude a good bunch of stuff just for the world to make sense.
Personally I will exclude godmoding, which is a sensible thing to do. I also see as a requirement to accept that IC actions have IC consequences. You know, the basic usual stuff.
I think "sensible" could be interpreted as "tolerated by most". ...which is all academic since the original plan isn't happening, at least not by me.
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Simple, because I see a closed roleplay group forming. I already pointed out, I do not have a character who could join. I am simply asking some questions, because, frankly, I can imagine people would feel left out. (That isn't to say I necessarily do, but given my characters backgrounds, I can vividly imagine the problems involved.)
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You have nailed the IC plan straight on.
With unlimited numbers the coalition could have been for any SGs that fit the loose profile. It can't be done. Not by game mechanics. It can still be done as a channel. It might work or not. Right at the moment I am not too keen on trying to make it work because I would have to pester tens of rp'ers to join a new channel with no actual content. I see on my part as misdirecting resources at this point.
An IC channel for this purpose I am still thinking about. It would have content that the OOC "coalition" channel would have not. I'm waiting to see if there is a need for such a channel.
As for the IC coalition I am now pondering, you're right. It would exclude people.
1) There is an actual limit to how many SG's can be in an interlinked coalition. If your SG is number 12 it won't fit.
2) The Silent Tempest won't accept anyone as a member, and neither will it ally itself with just about anyone. Thus all alliances will have to make IC sense. Just as any SG that wouldn't ally itself with strangers. IC choices.
3) Any character not in SG or in an OOC SG will be left out, naturally. If you want your char in the coalition, become a member to a SG in the coalition. If your concept for the char prevents it, they wouldn't work with the coalition anyway, even if "allowed in".
This IC coalition is a spinoff of the original "large server wide coalition" idea and IS far more limiting than at first was talked about. It is not, can't be, open for all. That is by no means a bad thing. There is already an open for all RP venue, namely GG. All the people can meet there daily. I'm not looking to create another GG, would be damn foolish of me, but I am trying to see if I could create something new. As a concept it would be theoretically open for all - it all just depends on IC. And IC is everyone's own OOC choice, as Diurne pointed out.
The coalition that I have in mind would include but not be limited to IC missions. Coila is already tuning a website for Tempest. It could be a virtual IC site for the coalition. I also see it as a nice platform for cross-SG plots. In short the would-be coalition will be what we make of it. Anything from an IC mission contact channel to a big IC alliance brought together to bring down penned and plotted IC enemy groups with nefarious plans.
If Tempest wishes to create IC alliances, it of course has to make the contacts IC and impress IC. I fully agree that such things have to make IC sense and so will it be. If we fail to pull this off IC, it won't happen. We'll see. At least there was an IC attempt and that's one more aspect to add to our characters and their goals.
One other game-mechanic related issue: you are also limited to 5 (I think) Global Channels which you can be a member of. Between GGOOC and various other ones for SGs (I think Cirque de la Lune members all have another two channels, for example), you start hitting that limit quite rapidly.
I've said it before, I'll say it again: this game dislikes roleplayers. 
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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One other game-mechanic related issue: you are also limited to 5 (I think) Global Channels which you can be a member of. Between GGOOC and various other ones for SGs (I think Cirque de la Lune members all have another two channels, for example), you start hitting that limit quite rapidly.
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Yep, that funky limit I ran across a few days back although not by personal experience yet. That is why I thought yet another OOC channel wouldn't offer enough to anyone for them to decide between an existing channel and some "coalition channel" in a new channel's favor.
It could very well be that an IC channel would be an equal failure, but that might be something I will still try to make work. My experiences with IC channels run from over two years back but they more often than not have not been in wide use.
Then again, to kick an event going such channels have worked well enough. It has depended a lot on the people in question how often or to what extent general IC chichat has taken place, but on those rare occasions the addition to rp has been good.
Time will tell if this is going to work this time around or if it's going to flop miserably. Provided I actually kick it off sometime soon. Right now I'm writing profiles and agendas for a baddie group...
Right, all nice and dandy, but let me sketch a scenario for you here. I, for instance, have been craving a new roleplay venue, a place to go to other than GG. I actually quite like this idea as a basic thing, and think that it might possibly be a good thing. Id like to give it a try, but I am stuck. None of my characters are in the designated groups that might come together in this. The IC SGs I am in with some of my characters, would not easily form alliances, nor would they easily let members in.
Those characters are established characters, I cannot simply discard them, or cut them from their alliance. Nor can I change their background. My fault, my character, I hear you say. But what you are forgetting, both you and Diurne, that this idea has only just come to the surface. Had it been in place sooner, there would have been time allowed for change or altering. There was also no need, as regardless of the SG, GG is equal for all. So no, its not a choice as the choice was never there to begin with, not until now.
Then theres the characters who I have floating about, who are technically backgroundless characters. Even with a new character, it would take ages to establish an alliance and roleplay my way into a group so that I could join in.
Having been on both sides of the fence, I can safely say, that secluded roleplay, or elitist roleplay as it is generally called, is a bad thing. I cannot think of a singular time when it hasnt caused grief in one form or another.
Say some of the GGers get involved in this, and get taken away from GG (Cause lets face it, 2 hours to do ic missions, specially when things go well, is not enough, so I am positive there will be plenty of times when this time flows into the GG time), you will see rifts getting created which will lead to all sorts of problems.
This is why I think it actually -is- very important, to make this open for all, and shouldnt be brought to life unless there is a plan in place to accommodate all who wish to join, no exception there.
You go on about your experience on SWG, well, please allow me to tell you where I get my views from. I have been a professional (yes, paid) GM in an MMORPG and later moved on to co-run a very successful NwN module for over a year. I have seen all sorts of things happen in game worlds. Seclusion, bullying, brilliant backgrounds, roleplay that moved me to tears and very resourceful usage of game restrictions and the like, Ive seen it all. What people tend to forget when they create a group within an existing world, though, and apply their own rules to it, it soon becomes an elitist group, who will be viewed as stuck up etc. They lose their view of the game world and all the other people in it. Its not something that happens overnight, it sneaks up on them, and by the time it comes out, they have no view of the potential wrongs, but only the rights through their eyes.
Please bare in mind, these are just words of caution, as I can see no other scenario than the two eventually clashing on a regular basis which will inevitably result in the two groups being entirely divided and perhaps even hateful to each other.
Yes, maybe you're stuck because of what you choosed for your characters, how you designed them, all you played them.
You won't discard them, change their background, you won't create or develop a new character because it doesn't appeal to you.
All of this is tied to *your* decisions.
I respect your choices and gaming style but don't make them a general rule.
I understand the hints and I am confident in the fact Coile is aware of what you are underlining. As you noticed, he's discussing about this. He's not coming like the messiah to explain all RPers around what to do and how to play.
So, it's exactly what is discussed here : a plan.
Rules about coalitions are similar to the ones in Supergroups.
Not everyone can fit in.
And it obviously was never a problem to anyone here.
As it was stated very often on those very boards, Galaxy Girl meetings are not for everyone too.
GGers often had to refute the reputation of being elitist or "a clique".It was never seen as a problem, it was just "yeah, GG is not for everyone"
So we have :
Supergroups which are not for everyone
GG meetings which are not for everyone
So, why on earth should a coalition be for everyone ?
Rules are clear : you want to participate to a coalition, join a SG which is in.
You don't want to join a SG ?
It doesn't prevent you at all to try to approach the various participating SGs and tag along them.
Where is the problem ?
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Again, there are two different things here :
- communication between RPers, server wide, which can be handled through a global channel and totally open for everyone
- a coalition between Supergroups, which is by nature for supergroups and not individuals and can be set with as many known or untold rules than any supergroup or GG meetings.
The discussion is oscillating between those two different things.
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Cause lets face it, 2 hours to do ic missions, specially when things go well, is not enough, so I am positive there will be plenty of times when this time flows into the GG time
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Sorry, but it's not a discussion about Galaxy Girl meetings even if I understand why you are speaking about them and the "possible" rift.
You say some GGers could be involved into this and the time dedicated to that will flow into GG time.
Actually, many regular GGers already have 0 problems to not come by the statue when they want to do missions. Coalition or not.
And what if people enjoy more doing missions (IC or not) than coming at the statue ?
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Yes, maybe you're stuck because of what you choosed for your characters, how you designed them, all you played them.
You won't discard them, change their background, you won't create or develop a new character because it doesn't appeal to you.
All of this is tied to *your* decisions.
I respect your choices and gaming style but don't make them a general rule.
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The chicken or the egg discussion. You say I won't change them, I say I can't. They have been long established characters, I can't simply -just- change something in their backkground, or de-allign them from their SG. What in the world would the justification be, aside from just being ooc? Sorry, but I don't believe in just adjusting my character's entire story, just to fit it into something to fit the occasion. Then what's the point of even roleplaying??
Sorry, but this isn't something you can just put on my shoulders as though it is just my problem, it isn't.
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As it was stated very often on those very boards, Galaxy Girl meetings are not for everyone too.
GGers often had to refute the reputation of being elitist or "a clique".It was never seen as a problem, it was just "yeah, GG is not for everyone"
So we have :
Supergroups which are not for everyone
GG meetings which are not for everyone
So, why on earth should a coalition be for everyone ?
Rules are clear : you want to participate to a coalition, join a SG which is in.
You don't want to join a SG ?
It doesn't prevent you at all to try to approach the various participating SGs and tag along them.
Where is the problem ?
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The problem, is in free choice. No, GG isn't for everyone, but at least people are free to chose whether to attend or not. The whole reasoning behind it, is an open space, for everyone to roleplay, regardless of your SG, character background etc. It is for one and all, but the choice, is yours.
This, is leading to an 'elite' 12 SG's. People don't have a choice. You want in, you join one of the 12. Sure, you might be able to tag along (and I say might, for a reason), if you're not alligned with the 12, but for what purpose? You won't be able to follow the coalition chat, and how would you know about it in the first place as an individual?
So frankly, it's join or die. You either adjust and fit into the regime, or you're an 'outcast'. Tell me, where's the free choice in that?
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Sorry, but it's not a discussion about Galaxy Girl meetings even if I understand why you are speaking about them and the "possible" rift.
You say some GGers could be involved into this and the time dedicated to that will flow into GG time.
Actually, many regular GGers already have 0 problems to not come by the statue when they want to do missions. Coalition or not.
And what if people enjoy more doing missions (IC or not) than coming at the statue ?
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Again, you're confusing two entirely different things. There is a difference, with about 8 people showing up late, and 12 SG's not showing with their active members.
Also, what is wrong with coordinating those activities at GG, where everyone present, regardless of their SG, can get involved? Why does there need to com a special SG coalition, where only the elite 12 can coordinate their ic actions?
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None of my characters are in the designated groups that might come together in this. The IC SGs I am in with some of my characters, would not easily form alliances, nor would they easily let members in.
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Can it be said that your characters exist only in secluded, not-open-for-all environments which you might describe as elitist and to be a bad thing?
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Having been on both sides of the fence, I can safely say, that secluded roleplay, or elitist roleplay as it is generally called, is a bad thing. I cannot think of a singular time when it hasnt caused grief in one form or another.
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I wouldnt call secluded elitist. They are not the same. All rp that does not take place in a place everyone knows to be there is sort of secluded. Rp in bases is secluded. A group doing a mission in a dungeon is secluded. Coile and Coila standing on a road in Skyway chatting is secluded after a fashion as it is not advertised anywhere. Which makes sense as two people talking about personal things usually do that with no others around.
People have the right to play wherever they wish and with whomever they wish - and also consequently without anyone they wish. I see a parallel in old skool GGers saying how much [censored] there is at GG these days and that they want to do their smaller scale rp elsewhere. Perfectly fine, imho.
I might have missed your point. Are you saying that rp that is not open for any and all who might want to take part is bad in any given form?
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But what you are forgetting, both you and Diurne, that this idea has only just come to the surface. Had it been in place sooner, there would have been time allowed for change or altering. There was also no need, as regardless of the SG, GG is equal for all. So no, its not a choice as the choice was never there to begin with, not until now.
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New ideas come along all the time. Now it is this ideas turn. Not all ideas, supergroup concepts, meeting places etc. are for all.
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Even with a new character, it would take ages to establish an alliance and roleplay my way into a group so that I could join in.
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I would say that depends a lot. Sword of Truth (Diurne) wasnt known to me at all in advance. She was hanging around GG the same time we were and came to us. When we decided to go take care of a job we asked her if she wanted to come along. Were all heroes and the job was fighting for justice and order so there was no other reasons needed to ask her along. In a few days she was regarded as a friend and an ally, and in about a week she was invited to Tempest. Now I would see Tempest to be less if she decided to leave.
It may take long of course, but not necessarily. Depends on the character and person, really.
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Say some of the GGers get involved in this, and get taken away from GG (Cause lets face it, 2 hours to do ic missions, specially when things go well, is not enough, so I am positive there will be plenty of times when this time flows into the GG time), you will see rifts getting created which will lead to all sorts of problems.
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Are you maybe mixing two ideas here? Looks to me like you are discussing Battleflags IC mission group concept. The coalition would be on at all times, and everywhere.
Why would it be a problem if anything by the coalition OR the Militia happened at the same time as GG? It goes on all the time, without rifts. Old skool GGers can be doing their own things instead of hanging around GG all night long.
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This is why I think it actually -is- very important, to make this open for all, and shouldnt be brought to life unless there is a plan in place to accommodate all who wish to join, no exception there.
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All can join, its just a matter of effort. Creating a brand new char is always an option. Its just a matter of choosing to do so.
I notice that on one hand you claim that GG is for all, and on the other you say it isnt. If even GG isnt for all, why would anything else have to be?
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What people tend to forget when they create a group within an existing world, though, and apply their own rules to it, it soon becomes an elitist group, who will be viewed as stuck up etc. They lose their view of the game world and all the other people in it. Its not something that happens overnight, it sneaks up on them, and by the time it comes out, they have no view of the potential wrongs, but only the rights through their eyes.
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Well, having our own secluded bubble of SWG world worked fantastically for two years. I dont share your fears and dont hold them as certainties. You generalize too much.
Beside which what you describe isnt what is happening, anyway. The proposed IC coalition isnt a completely separate entity. Characters talk to their friends and everything keeps fluid. In fact I dont see any possibility at all for (maximum of) 11 SGs ending up playing solely with each other. I personally wouldnt and until someone proves me wrong I expect no one else to do so either.
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Please bare in mind, these are just words of caution, as I can see no other scenario than the two eventually clashing on a regular basis which will inevitably result in the two groups being entirely divided and perhaps even hateful to each other.
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Again I must disagree with the projected outcome. I see no reason at all for hateful relationships between any groups or persons. I certainly will not be bound by such premonitions, nor will they affect my actions as I dont believe in them.
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The chicken or the egg discussion. You say I won't change them, I say I can't. They have been long established characters, I can't simply -just- change something in their backkground, or de-allign them from their SG. What in the world would the justification be, aside from just being ooc? Sorry, but I don't believe in just adjusting my character's entire story, just to fit it into something to fit the occasion. Then what's the point of even roleplaying??
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I think I am missing your point here. You have established characters that would not be interested in coalition, and you don't want to start a new one. That's fine. But why does it matter if other characters want to start a coalition and do so? (characters you would not be interracting with anyhow due to your chars being in exclusive SG's and having their own established plotlines and circles.)
Personally, I think that SG, or coalition, creates more interaction between RPers, and that is always a good. It can be viewed as exclusive, but it is no more or less exclusive than any group of people.
Not to mention that currently there is no plans to create specific coalitions AFAIK.
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The chicken or the egg discussion. You say I won't change them, I say I can't.
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It's a game.
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Free choice :
GG is about individuals. Coalition is about supergroups.
The same rules can't be applied to both. We are all aware of this.
Same for supergroup joining rules, told or untold. They exist and it never was a problem.
Tagging along a coalition is no harder than tagging along a supergroup you don't belong to.
Where is the problem ?
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So frankly, it's join or die. You either adjust and fit into the regime, or you're an 'outcast'. Tell me, where's the free choice in that?
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There is a minimum requirement to belong to a RP supergroup. Which is a problem to no one .
Your comment would be valid if the coalition starts to do exclusive activities like "you're one of us or you don't come with us". And then, I could agree with you.
Yet, with such an attitude, would you like to join them anyway ? So where is the loss ?
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Access to Coalition chat
There are global channels set by RP SGs who are not open to all. They are restricted to only invited players.
Is it a problem to you ?
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GGers and missions
No, I am not speaking about "people coming late because of a mission" I am speaking about people who don't come at all because they have fun in missions.
I just check my global friends list.
And how does it come you are supposing "12 SG with active members" are not going to show at GG ?
Why shouldn't they acknowledge, as a coalition, the existence of GG (if they are not already aware) and see it as a nice place to come by ?
Why couldn't they coordinate their activities out of GG time ?
Why, even, couldn't they come by GG to speak about their activities, allowing others non-SG members to have a chance to tag along ??
No worries. I understand perfectly your comments and also see the "danger of dissolution". That's why it's a discussion, why Coile started to share his ideas.
I think what Aisla is trying to get across, is that despite all the good intentions at the moment with the Coalition-stuff, there will always be the risk that you can *unintentionally* become more secluded than you intended, and possibly cut-off from others.
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Can it be said that your characters exist only in secluded, not-open-for-all environments which you might describe as elitist and to be a bad thing?
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Nope, arather rude assumption, I think. Just because their background is a certain way, does not mean that they are meant for secluded, SG only roleplay. I roleplayed happily, every night, all night at GG with them, interacting with many who were not in my SG.
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I wouldnt call secluded elitist. They are not the same. All rp that does not take place in a place everyone knows to be there is sort of secluded. Rp in bases is secluded. A group doing a mission in a dungeon is secluded. Coile and Coila standing on a road in Skyway chatting is secluded after a fashion as it is not advertised anywhere. Which makes sense as two people talking about personal things usually do that with no others around.
People have the right to play wherever they wish and with whomever they wish - and also consequently without anyone they wish. I see a parallel in old skool GGers saying how much [censored] there is at GG these days and that they want to do their smaller scale rp elsewhere. Perfectly fine, imho.
I might have missed your point. Are you saying that rp that is not open for any and all who might want to take part is bad in any given form?
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Another crude, and rather rude assumption, you are coming across to me, now, as trying to flame my comments. My questions were open questions, and you are answering with rather accusing closed questions to me. Be ware of your behaviour, please, or I will cease this discussion on grounds that I do not wish to be pulled into a degrading thing such as that.
You're also contradicting yourself. You first make it out, that in order for this, you need to be part of a select number of SG's, thus limiting the people, yet you say everyone has a right to play where ever, when ever. How can you, when you have no access to something they would like to be a part of?
I am not talking about personal roleplay, I am talking about rp on a larger scale. You seem to misunderstand the two.
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New ideas come along all the time. Now it is this ideas turn. Not all ideas, supergroup concepts, meeting places etc. are for all.
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No, but at least there's the option. Again, free choice.
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I would say that depends a lot. Sword of Truth (Diurne) wasnt known to me at all in advance. She was hanging around GG the same time we were and came to us. When we decided to go take care of a job we asked her if she wanted to come along. Were all heroes and the job was fighting for justice and order so there was no other reasons needed to ask her along. In a few days she was regarded as a friend and an ally, and in about a week she was invited to Tempest. Now I would see Tempest to be less if she decided to leave.
It may take long of course, but not necessarily. Depends on the character and person, really.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly, and even then, who is to give me the promise my character would be allowed in at all?
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Are you maybe mixing two ideas here? Looks to me like you are discussing Battleflags IC mission group concept. The coalition would be on at all times, and everywhere.
Why would it be a problem if anything by the coalition OR the Militia happened at the same time as GG? It goes on all the time, without rifts. Old skool GGers can be doing their own things instead of hanging around GG all night long.
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You're still not getting my point. I have explained it many times, I am tired of repeating myself, and have better things to do with my time.
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All can join, its just a matter of effort. Creating a brand new char is always an option. Its just a matter of choosing to do so.
I notice that on one hand you claim that GG is for all, and on the other you say it isnt. If even GG isnt for all, why would anything else have to be?
[/ QUOTE ]
You're twisting my words again, something I very much dislike. GG isn't for all -by choice-, it's open to all, but if you cannot find yourself in it, that's fine. At least you got the chance to experience it for yourself. It's a matter of choice. This coalition, isn't about free choice, it's about what we always defend GG from being; a clique where you have to jump through hoops in order to be part of it.
[ QUOTE ]
All can join, its just a matter of effort. Creating a brand new char is always an option. Its just a matter of choosing to do so.
I notice that on one hand you claim that GG is for all, and on the other you say it isnt. If even GG isnt for all, why would anything else have to be?
[/ QUOTE ]
You sure assume a lot. I generalise? You are very quick to jump to a conclusion, my friend. I think I have seen enough of your behaviour, and even if I would have been interested in taking part, all of that is now gone, and if this means that you take all those who think like you away at times, then I embrace your idea with both arms.
I am sick of the bickering, I am sick of trying to help make the community a better place for everyone. I am sick of people like you, who put words in people's mouths and assume rather than sit down and understand.
It never was about negating your idea, or anyone else's, it was meant so as to make you think about my initial questions, and maybe better your idea. But if you are so arrogant as to presume you know it all, and think, that SWG is like CoH, or that the two in any way are alike, then you do not deserve my well-meant imput.
Good day to you, I will no further post or even comment on this thread.
How the heck did this get frtom a possible set up for a weekly based mission/RP SG to a free for all about what's elitist and what's exclusive???
I see SG's all the time that are completely exclusive and disregard other RPers, but nothing ever gets said to them because in the end why does it matter!?
Just because it's a MMOG doesn't mean we have to involve every Tom, Dick or Harry that comes along.
On top of that, the game mechanics aren't RP-friendly, everyone knows that. But really where is the harm in a group of like minded individuals trying to enjoy the game as best they can?
It just seems to me that unless it's something set up by an elite few, it isn't permissable.
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I think what Aisla is trying to get across, is that despite all the good intentions at the moment with the Coalition-stuff, there will always be the risk that you can *unintentionally* become more secluded than you intended, and possibly cut-off from others.
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However that risk exists with any given group, be it SG or just a bonch of friends having fun. Or a group old oldtimer GG'ers saying how they want to do their own thing separate from GG because GG doesn't appeal to them any more enough.
By definition getting "cutt off" happens. I mostly play with rp'ers. That is not to say I wouldn't tag along a group of lower level non-rp'ers and help them with a mission (I did that today, hence the example) but it wouldn't be my usual choice.
If our group has fun oing missions (at this point in time anyway) we're already a bit cut off from those who don't. It comes ddown to what is fun for each.
On a side note, just in case, I don't see any duty for me to provide fun for others. It's my buck and my game. I have no innate responsibility for any other player. Same goes for everyone, of course.
However, I choose to co-operate as I have more fun in that way, and I see others having more fun with that way too, and seeing my friends having fun makes me feel better. I hazard a guess that this mechanism applies to my friends also.
Right now I'm trying to see how far and big this fun could go. Finding like-minded groups, starting cross-SG plots, getting new friends.
I can do that to some extent at GG but it is tied to a certain time and place. I see a coalition between SGs as a way to make it work better.
So far everyone, and I do mean every single member, in The Silent Tempest has regularly popped by GG at the usual time. I see no reason for that to change.
First of all guys, I think we all need to sit back and say to ourselves "There is no one True way"
Coile - In what you're proposing, would people who chose not to become part of the coalitions for whatever reason be excluded on an OOC level?
More importantly, when you say coalition, do you mean the OC mechanic of coalitions between supergroups, or an IC agreement to help whenever called on, and a framework in place to assist that.
In the former, I think it might be a good idea, but does risk becoming "elitist" or "cliquey". Would a RP'er who wasn't a member of those groups be welcomed?
With the later, to me at least it seems that either you have a global system respected by every hero (probably maintained by Herocorps) that can be used to call for assistance, or you have individual links between groups.
The first is what I think you want, and is better IMHO as a global chat channel, while the second is the one that uses coalitions in the OOC mechanics sense, and makes sense if you consider heroes as members of their supergroup and not individuals.
Personally, I think more people running missions in and around GG time is a good thing, the statue has gotten way too crowded because everyone turns up faithfully at 9 instead of rolling in at 10 making jokes about how they nearly got scalped by Atta.
Note that this is all personal opinion, and not indicative in any way of the views of other GG members, the Guardians of Destiny, and small pink fluffy things. All rights reserved.
On an utterly unrelated note, I have a horrible feeling that you'll find that the SG's themselves will only survive it you have the majority of the players only playing one alt, and near-constantly working together. Of the two long-running IC SG's (at GG) the GoD did exactly that, and the Cirque still do a lot of missions etc together.
The one that really stands out in the graveyard is the Vigil, noteable mostly for the fact that every single OC member was still playing until about a month ago.
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This coalition, isn't about free choice, it's about what we always defend GG from being
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I must disagree with that. Yes certain people MAY have tried to avoid GG from being a clique, the most notable opponent to elitist cliques being Jennybear herself. But it has been one for as long as I can remember. Yes everyone was free to RP there, but not everyone was included by the regulars there. I love GG, always have, it's things like this I hate.
All I wanted to get from this "Militia" idea was another venue for roleplay, another source of inspiration that wouldn't dredge up bad memories from the past.
If people want to join up, let them. If they do, it's because they like the concept, not because they're necessarily an anti-social player who wants to ignore the surrounding community.
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Coile - In what you're proposing, would people who chose not to become part of the coalitions for whatever reason be excluded on an OOC level?
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No. They would not.
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More importantly, when you say coalition, do you mean the OC mechanic of coalitions between supergroups, or an IC agreement to help whenever called on, and a framework in place to assist that.
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Both, although the IC agreement depends on IC talks.
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In the former, I think it might be a good idea, but does risk becoming "elitist" or "cliquey". Would a RP'er who wasn't a member of those groups be welcomed?
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Any character who has an IC reason to tag along could tag along based on IC. As I outlined in an earlier post for most missions just the wish to do good and combat crime would be enough.
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With the later, to me at least it seems that either you have a global system respected by every hero (probably maintained by Herocorps) that can be used to call for assistance, or you have individual links between groups.
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I just thought of a better idea for Coile to start putting this together than I had. I dont think Coile at any time has become a member of Hero Corps and he has been a bit wary of it due to its corporate nature. The coalition could be his own take on the matter. NOT that Hero Corps would be a deterrent in any way. For example Tempest member Sword of Truth is affiliated with the Corp.
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The first is what I think you want, and is better IMHO as a global chat channel, while the second is the one that uses coalitions in the OOC mechanics sense, and makes sense if you consider heroes as members of their supergroup and not individuals.
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My idea for an IC chat channel would work concurrently with the coalition supporting it. It pays to mention that the IC chat channel would be of course open to all, not limited to just coalition peeps. Any character could participate there and hopefully find chances for ex tempore rp be it a mission or chilling out on a rooftop in Boomtown.
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On an utterly unrelated note, I have a horrible feeling that you'll find that the SG's themselves will only survive it you have the majority of the players only playing one alt, and near-constantly working together.
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In other venues I have already found that out. I will personally try to stick to just one character as long as I can. However I have no wish affecting others in how they play, what characters or when. I know that all of my fellow sg members have alts. Thats cool.
First things first, this thread was not about this RP coalition thing. The thread title was hijacked about 75 posts in... As such I am attempting to return the thread title back to its original title - The Nature of Roleplay.
Now, business...
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This coalition, isn't about free choice, it's about what we always defend GG from being
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I must disagree with that. Yes certain people MAY have tried to avoid GG from being a clique, the most notable opponent to elitist cliques being Jennybear herself. But it has been one for as long as I can remember. Yes everyone was free to RP there, but not everyone was included by the regulars there. I love GG, always have, it's things like this I hate.
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You're confusing cliques being at GG with GG being a clique. The former happens, the latter is a falsehood. People form their own tight groups at GG, but anyone can come along and form their own tight group. Because anyone can come to GG, GG itself cannot be a clique, only the intermediate step to one forming.
'The Regulars', 'The Veterans', 'The Old-Timers' they're such a nasty bunch of people aren't they? Always at fault for something.
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All I wanted to get from this "Militia" idea was another venue for roleplay, another source of inspiration that wouldn't dredge up bad memories from the past.
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This thread isn't, and never was, about The Militia idea.
Whatever happened to Liberty Squadron as a source of inspiration?
Any mention of a secondary venue will always drag up the past. Second venue debates are the dredgers of the great silty river of CoH RP.
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If people want to join up, let them. If they do, it's because they like the concept, not because they're necessarily an anti-social player who wants to ignore the surrounding community.
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I don't think anyone is actually able, or trying, to stop you.
I know this will be taken as snippy and possibly flamey, but this is a lot tamer than what I originally considered posting.
I'm fed up with people slamming Aisla when she provides critical feedback, which which more often than not has been asked to be given. Aisla isn't some all-mighty empress that you must obey.
I'm fed up of people slamming the 'GG Regulars' for everything that is perceived as wrong with RP in this game. You don't like how it's done at GG, feel free to start your own thing but don't try to pretend that it's somehow better or more inclusive than GG.
Most of all I'm fed up with endless stupid debates about the 'right' way to RP. GG is one way to do it, but it's not the 'best' and it's not the most 'inclusive', it just works.
And for continued discussion of this Coalition idea, start a new thread rather than continuing on this hijacked thread, ok?
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Whatever happened to Liberty Squadron as a source of inspiration?
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Exactly the reason I decided to give something else a go. I tried contacting the Liberty Squadron members and got 2 replies out of like 15 members. So I figured people had lost interest.
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So I figured people had lost interest.
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Unfortunately, it was a victim of timing... You had your offline time just at the worse possible time, as the SG was being born. Other people just didn't have the wherewithall to keep it going. Also, at least two of it's members left the game as well... That, along with the mess up with invite permissions killed it.
Pity really, was an interesting idea.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Again, just to make one premise clear, I absolutely agree that the basic for any new concept should be no seclusion or exclusion (with a possible proviso for established "griefers").
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when you start a roleplaying SG, you are probably setting limits to the kind of character concepts you will allow in.
There are RP SGs "open to everyone whoever they are", there are RP SGs who are not open at all to everyone.
So, why now considering everyone should be able to participate to a coalition ?