So what am I doing wrong?


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Posted

Bridger assures me that it isn't possible to have a controller that rules PVE yet is absolutely useless PVP. However I am positive I have one, so here is my build, what do you think?

Callista, Lvl 50 Gravity Conrol/Radiation Emission

Radiation Emission:-
Crush 50++ Acc, 2x50++ Dmg
Gravity Distorsion 2x50++ Acc, 2x50++ Dmg, 50++ Mez, 50(HO) Mez/Acc
Propel 2x51+ Acc, 3x53 Dmg, 52+ Rec
Crushing Field 50++ Acc, 53 Acc, 53 Rec, 50++ Rec, 2x50++ Dmg
Gravity Distorsion Field 2x53 Acc, 2x53 Rec, 2x 50++ Mez
Wormhole 53 Acc, 50++ Acc, 51 Range
Singularity 3x53 Acc, 52+Dmg, 2x50++ Dmg
Dimension Shift 50++ Acc

Radiation Emission:-
Radiant Aura 52+ Heal, 2x50++ Heal, 3x53Rec
Accelerate Metabolism 4x50++ Rec, 2x50++ End Mod
Mutate 50++ Rec
EM Pulse 53 Acc, 50++ Mez, 50++ Rec

Fire Mastery (epic):-
Fire Ball 2x53 Acc, 53 Rec, 3x53 Dmg
Fire Blast 2x50++ Acc, 53 Rec, 3x50++ Dmg
Fire Shield 3x50++ Def

Flight:-
Hover 50++ Fly
Fly 4x50++ Fly

Concealment:-
Stealth 2x50++ Def
Invisibility 2x50++ Def
Phase Shift 3x 50++ Rec

Fitness:-
Swift 50++ Run
Health 4x50++ Heal
Stamina 6x50++ End Mod

Teleportation:-
Recall friend 50++ Rec


 

Posted

I'm no controller expert, but the only thing I might change about this build is adding 2 acc enhancements to all the powers that require you to hit. Also Accelerate Metabolism has 4 recharge which only needs to be 3 thanks to Enhancement Diversification. I'm sure someone more experienced will point out powers that aren't needed.


 

Posted

I saw the post this came from, and have to ask... how much have you tried PvP? If you went into the zones a couple of times and happened to hit nights when there were mainly Stalkers around, I'm not surprised you think your build is useless - I know my how my Grav/FF feels some days, even if she's very hard to kill, and is built for PvP. Other days, I feel like I could use nothing but my single-target hold and still be really useful in PvP. Controllers are great if the people you're fighting against are squishy, especially if they're squishy and don't have good support. I think that's pretty much what Bridger meant in saying that he didn't think you could have a Controller that was completely useless in PvP, because even one hold can be enough to spell someone's doom.

Looking at the build, though... it does look like you have a very PvE-oriented build, and I don't doubt that you'd have a harder time with it than with many Grav/Rad builds in PvE. I'm a bit surprised to see you don't have the debuffs from your secondary, as they're fantastic in both PvE and PvP, and would probably help you in both. If you're really underperforming in PvP compared even to other non-PvP-built Controllers, that might explain why. Most rads I've seen take them, and they're really useful.

Edit: I've not really gone into any PvP build suggestions, since I'm assuming from your prior posts you're not hugely interested in such a respec. If I'm wrong though, I'll gladly give some advice - I wouldn't say I'm the most experienced, but I go have a Grav/FF Controller at 37 and an Ill/Rad at 36 with builds that function pretty well in both PvE and PvP, so I some some idea of the sets.


 

Posted

A few things:

You "need" 3 of the best rad powers there are (surprised you don't even have them for PvE since they're great there too??) which are:

Radiation Infection: Eliminate some of the threat since they can't hit you. (slot 3 tohit debuffs and throw in def debuffs and/or recharge/end red if you have the slots.)

Enervating Field: You take less dmg, they take more..simple as that. (slot with 2 end reds and maybe a recharge or range if you have the slots)

Lingering Radiation: Really good power in PvE and awesome in PvP, one of the best -regen, -recharge, slows in the game (slot 2 acc, 3 recharge and maybe a end red)

Fly: I love fly but it's probably the "worst" travelpower in PvP. It's slow, theres a lot -fly powers out there, uses a lot of end and the suppression is horrific

Don't have much else 'cept the things stated by others.


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"Extremists LOVE to fish to get us annoyed so we break the forum rules."
CRACK68:
"The origin of life wasn't planned either, should all life be declared a bug and wiped out?"
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"You know me.Ever the realist"

 

Posted

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Looking at the build, though... it does look like you have a very PvE-oriented build, and I don't doubt that you'd have a harder time with it than with many Grav/Rad builds in PvE.


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Was that last PvE supposed to be a PvP? Callista is dead easy to play PvE, if I fire off all of my holds on any given mob there is virtualy nothing left moving, which has always made the debuffs a bit pointless. I always found early on that I had End problems when I had the toggles running. Hence I focussed on making the primaries as effective as possible.

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I'm a bit surprised to see you don't have the debuffs from your secondary, as they're fantastic in both PvE and PvP, and would probably help you in both.


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Perhaps it's personal playstyle but I always found the debufs were more of a hinderance than a help in PvE, I like to focus on holds, and am now able to hold most mobs (8 man teams) by the time the tank has managed to reach them
I also recall the time that I managed to Duo the psychic clockwork king with her and a Emp/Dark defender (no casualties), so she makes a good account of herself in PvE.

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Edit: I've not really gone into any PvP build suggestions, since I'm assuming from your prior posts you're not hugely interested in such a respec.

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You are quite right, I probably won't be respeccing Calli' unless the devs decide to do something horrible to her again, like in I5 and I6. She is good fun to play, never has received any complaints from the teams she joins so I don't want to risk breaking her just to try and make her PvP better.

You may be right, I think 100% of my deaths are at the hands of stalkers. And I haven't spent a lot of time PvP at all, I have played in a base raid and the Arena a few times, as well as a couple of visits to the PvP zones. To be fair I am completely put off PvP and probably won't bother again, however if your character seems to be underperforming in an area it is nice to know why.

The general formula for me and PvP always seems to involve trying to hold someone and then watching them run away, whether I hit them or not, then being AS'd as soon as I try and follow.


 

Posted

I think it would be based on what you'd consider a good PvE build and how your playstyle works.

I'd not take /rad without RI and EF........ RI certainly reduces your accuracy problem and effectively gives you defence. Nice for both PvE and PvP. You've gone pretty much for total control, which isn't as diverse. If you teamed with someone who was there as the support role, either buffing you or debuffing foes (which you probably get in an 8 man PvE team) you'll probably find that you're good in PvP too.


"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"

 

Posted

What you're doing wrong? You lack RI and EF, not going any deeper as that is a REAL problem with this build.


 

Posted

TBH what has been said is very true imo. You may do well in PvE but I honestly think Rad without its main powers wil not rule over one with those powers (Heal,AM,RI,EF and LR), LR vs all groups isnt a must but vs AVs etc. it is very useful.

I think one thing you may also find is that you have to work around rooting. The fact you fly you may find yourself grounded alot and lacking in movement. With propel I am guessing you are maybe standing still a little too much and are prone to attacks.

The best trick vs rooting powers is to jump in one direction and use the power at the hight of your jump. That way you are still moveing for some of the animation time and are thus less easy to AS.

Hope this helps .

P.S. In SC controller damage, save perhaps Ill, is really quite small esp as containment may be hard to achieve. Solo troller isnt going to enjoy SC much most the time.


 

Posted

I havent played a Grav, but my main is /rad and can testify to the usefullness of powers mentioned in PvE and PvP.

But since you don't want to respec, you can probably manage to hold your own at least against certain ATs with the right approach.
IMO you should swap one of those recharges in AM for an end modification and also maybe 2 of the flight speeds in fly for end reductions. Then stay in fly and invis/stealth as much as possible, and most importantly keep moving. This way you'll be less of a target for stalkers. You'll occasionally be dropped out of the air by that spines stalker immob - but that would probably be a good time to use phase shift and watch him try to AS you

Then you'll need to pick your targets - namely squishies with no mezz protection - corrupters/doms/MMs, you may even be able to stack holds on the occasional staker if you can see them long enough, but you'd probably need to swap at least one damage from grav distortion for a recharge.
Also the -fly from crush could help with your damage by dropping those high-flyers right to the ground - and if your lucky and they're high enough and squishy enough the DOT will finish them off - so your very own one-shot (highly situational of course)

wormhole also has some potential but UMMV.

Of course this is all just my opinion, based mainly on a reasonable amount of time in sirens - and there are plenty of more experienced players out there who'll probably have better advice for you.


 

Posted

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Was that last PvE supposed to be a PvP?

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Yes, it was supposed to say PvP, gets easy to typo when writing it repeatedly.


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Perhaps it's personal playstyle but I always found the debufs were more of a hinderance than a help in PvE...

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You're right, it is just personal playstyle, and you're obviously totally entitled to play how you want. Since most PvE builds use them as well, though, I think it may go some way as to explaining why you were feeling you'd managed to make a PvE build that couldn't manage at all in PvP. In your case, it's not so much that an average PvE build doesn't function well in PvP, it's that a rather specialised and highly personalised build isn't working well in PvP, and that's not really surprising. You've built a character to do one thing very well - locking down groups of foes in PvE, and that doesn't really translate.

As you noticed, many players have mez resist, and there are times in PvP when a Controller needs to be doing a lot more than just relying on holds, or other mez powers, to be effective at all. Sounds like you hit only those times. In team arena play or base raids you can probably expect people to have buffers keeping them free of mezzes, and in the zones, as I said, all it takes is hitting one of those annoying days that's full of Stalkers.

On a day with more squishies around, you might have had a rather different experience, though, which qualifies the statement that it's pretty difficult to imagine any Controller build being useless in PvP. Few squishies have mez protection, and it's harder to keep people buffed against mezzes in a large, open zone. There are break frees of course, but in my experience, it's not hard to catch people running out. Sometimes, even if they do use a BF or have a teammate de-mez them, it's too late for them, if you have team members nearby to join in and kill your target quickly.

It may be less your build causing the problem in some ways, and more the circumstances, and also just lack of PvP experience and knowledge. I don't mean that in any bad way, just that it takes more than a few fights to really start understanding what powers work well against who, when to use them, and how to effectively team in PvP. I really think that a good PvPer could take even a really gimped toon into PvP and find some use for them, even though a good PvP build would massively improve them. Conversely, someone who has no PvP experience couldn't take control of a perfectly-built PvP toon and destroy everyone in a PvP zone first time.


 

Posted

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It may be less your build causing the problem in some ways, and more the circumstances, and also just lack of PvP experience and knowledge. I don't mean that in any bad way, just that it takes more than a few fights to really start understanding what powers work well against who, when to use them, and how to effectively team in PvP. I really think that a good PvPer could take even a really gimped toon into PvP and find some use for them, even though a good PvP build would massively improve them. Conversely, someone who has no PvP experience couldn't take control of a perfectly-built PvP toon and destroy everyone in a PvP zone first time.

[/ QUOTE ]If I told you that first time I PvP'd, I took a total PvE build and destroyed everyone in the match, would you believe me?

It's not just PvP skill, it's overall gameplay skill.


 

Posted

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[ QUOTE ]

It may be less your build causing the problem in some ways, and more the circumstances, and also just lack of PvP experience and knowledge. I don't mean that in any bad way, just that it takes more than a few fights to really start understanding what powers work well against who, when to use them, and how to effectively team in PvP. I really think that a good PvPer could take even a really gimped toon into PvP and find some use for them, even though a good PvP build would massively improve them. Conversely, someone who has no PvP experience couldn't take control of a perfectly-built PvP toon and destroy everyone in a PvP zone first time.

[/ QUOTE ]If I told you that first time I PvP'd, I took a total PvE build and destroyed everyone in the match, would you believe me?

It's not just PvP skill, it's overall gameplay skill.

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I still think a good build is 90% and skill is 10%, but that would belong to another thread.
Yet i gotta agree, having rad, and not getting its 3 brand powers, is like having a tank without armors nor taunt if u ask me.
Having a good rad set will enable to solo an AV roughly these days, but really easily with another troller, and that goes for PvP too, u r missing the powers that really make a difference on the rad's side imo


 

Posted

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Having a good rad set will enable to solo an AV roughly these days, but really easily with another troller, and that goes for PvP too, u r missing the powers that really make a difference on the rad's side imo

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After reading peoples suggestions here I was considering dropping the concealment pool to pick up the 3 rad powers. Does that sound like a good plan to you chaps? Also I just found this thread:

http://uk.boards.cityofheroes.com/sh...t=all&vc=1

and wonder if it's worth getting the extra rad powers at all still ....

Damnit and I had already downloaded the hero planner and was figuring things out


 

Posted

RI, though now weaker than before, still helps a lot. EF makes an amazing difference, and when LR EVENRTUALLY recharges its good to make the battle your pace.


"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"

 

Posted

RI and EF are a must, and personally I'd consider invis and Phase nearly useless, So I'd swap those powers.

Now stealth and LR... It's down to playstyle I guess, neither is that appealing to me, but If I had to pick I'd take LR.


 

Posted

LR is far too good to miss for PvP.


 

Posted

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LR is far too good to miss for PvP.

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And so are RI and EF.

I'd drop fly for SS. Hasten is still really useful too.

Recall friend is a waste too.

Having radiant aura 3 heal and 3 rech, health is a bit redundant, id go for hurdle instead (mainly if i had SS)

3 acc on pet is way too much, id stick 1 (or 2) hold dur on it, to help me in hold staking


 

Posted

Thanks for the pointers guys, I have looked at things and did a respec lastnight (took 2 hours). I took out Invisibility, Dimension and phase shift and put in RI, LR and EF. I jiggled slots about a but managed to find 3 for each of those powers, I'll experiment with effective slotting as I go.

Thanks for the tips on a PvP build there Dark, but I'll keep fly and Recall Friends as Callista is a PvE team player and those powers work really well for me, especially in places like the shards to help get people around.

I also like RA, number of times it has saved the day in a tough mission.