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As for going to base, I often call teammates back to base to regroup for a big push
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That's different, that's a strategic choice rather than "oh mammy the bad hero/villain is after me so I'll go somewhere I know they can't get to me."
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I think you'll find that going somewhere safe to rest/wait for your clickies to recharge/get a temp power/have a bit of a breather is also a strategic choice.
Hit and run is not exactly a new tactic in the field of human conflict.
Do I always run to the base? No. Sometimes it is not neccessary, as there are sometimes other safe places I can go and hit rest, particularly when there is a big old scrap in one particular area, but if there is a wide non-localised confilct going on or if someone is chasing me, I'll happily go to my base.
Dead Calm's Defender Manifesto
I personaly think if your running away to your base because your scared your gonna die you have lost already. Also its on of the mian reasons I wont be going to the pvp zones any more as when you go there its just a deadly game of tag TBH. At least in the arena people can run but they cant hide.
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Hit and run is not exactly a new tactic in the field of human conflict.
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None of the PvP zones qualify as a field of human conflict. They do however count as field of human gaming. Running to the base to escape a pursuer is running OFF the gaming field and announcing to everyone "I don't want to play until things are back in my favour again, or at least until that neast hero/villain goes away."
It's poor sportsmanship, that's the only way I can see it.
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
[ QUOTE ]
I personaly think if your running away to your base because your scared your gonna die you have lost already. Also its on of the mian reasons I wont be going to the pvp zones any more as when you go there its just a deadly game of tag TBH. At least in the arena people can run but they cant hide.
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wheres the fun in that? sounds more like a deadly game of tag than the zones, if you cant hide you cant ambush, it sounds like 2 rats in a cage to me. I think all the arena maps are too small, the zones also bring chaos and random events into play, theres nothing like finally tagging someone who has eluded you for some time.
I personally dont like the arena, it seems stifling, slow to organise and too linear for my tastes.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
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Depends. One on one, or even two or three on one and I'll probably stick it out. Anymore than that and I'm outta there.
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Well, if the Defiant Bantamweight & Heavyweight Champion admits he runs for home when the odds are worse than 2:1 then it doesn't bode well for the community.
But I'm glad you told us, perhaps you can answer the question; Why?
Being splattered means you'll wind up back at base anyway, minus nothing but the walk home. So why run there to escape... being teleported there?
Just curious.
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Simply because I don't want you to have points from me and I don't like getting beaten up. It's humiliating. So if I'm not getting any points, neither will you, if its up to me 
Fighting l33t since 1974
Don't "lol"! Laugh!
Sanity Inc
@8Qbit
Defeat me with my henches up, I'll applaud you - double-bonus points for getting me after taking all my henches out Trash me when I'm fleeing back to base to resummon and I'll think you've got a cheap kill 
PvP would be so much easier once I have some SO's slotted again!
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None of the PvP zones qualify as a field of human conflict. They do however count as field of human gaming. Running to the base to escape a pursuer is running OFF the gaming field and announcing to everyone "I don't want to play until things are back in my favour again, or at least until that neast hero/villain goes away."
It's poor sportsmanship, that's the only way I can see it.
[/ QUOTE ]
PvP is a zero-sum game. For one person to win another must lose. Ergo it is human conflict.
Your argument essentially boils down to "A person should not run. They should stand there and let me boost my PvP rep, despite the fact they could stop me killing them if they wanted."
I say rubbish. In full-on PvP (not, as mentioned earlier, in a duel - I regard them as very much a two men enter, one man leaves kind of affair) I will use every single weapon (that is within the rules) at my disposal to win in PvP, be that attacks, defenses, using a travel powers to run to the base, jumping into a spawn so the toggle debuff you've stuck on me gets you a whole world of aggro, temporary powers, a string of emotes designed to rile you by suggesting sexual inadaquicy and getting you involved in a protracted discussion over broadcast about the best way to cook bacon in order to sneek up on you while you type your response.
If you cannot take someone down before they escape, and they come back and take you out, the one who has failed is you, not them. It's not exactly as if CoX is devoid of ways to stop someone escaping, and the option to retreat is there for you as well. If you do not chose to use it, tough.
Dead Calm's Defender Manifesto
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PvP is a zero-sum game. For one person to win another must lose. Ergo it is human conflict.
Your argument essentially boils down to "A person should not run. They should stand there and let me boost my PvP rep, despite the fact they could stop me killing them if they wanted."
I say rubbish. In full-on PvP (not, as mentioned earlier, in a duel - I regard them as very much a two men enter, one man leaves kind of affair) I will use every single weapon (that is within the rules) at my disposal to win in PvP, be that attacks, defenses, using a travel powers to run to the base, jumping into a spawn so the toggle debuff you've stuck on me gets you a whole world of aggro, temporary powers, a string of emotes designed to rile you by suggesting sexual inadaquicy and getting you involved in a protracted discussion over broadcast about the best way to cook bacon in order to sneek up on you while you type your response.
If you cannot take someone down before they escape, and they come back and take you out, the one who has failed is you, not them. It's not exactly as if CoX is devoid of ways to stop someone escaping, and the option to retreat is there for you as well. If you do not chose to use it, tough.
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I think you are taking this PvP thing a bit too serious. It's meant to be fun for all not only yourself. Making your opponent get aggro ? making him grind to get rid of it doesn't classify as fun.
It's a game, who cares you killed X 10 times while he killed you just once ? Nobody, if you are using the tactics you described.
Causing an opponent to get aggro is a totally valid way of getting them to turn off the toggle debuff they have put on you, and I say that as someone who plays a Dark Defender. I do not do it to get them debt, I do it to force them to withdraw from the fight for a bit to lose the aggro.
As for getting debt in a PvP zone, I will do everything I can in a fight with someone to avoid either of us getting debt. For example, if I had tp foe, I would never tp people into enemy mobs. Doing so would not be a victory for me, but for the computer. No fun in that for anyone.
I absoultly treat it as a game. I'll banter, I'll give props to the other side when someone does something really clever or takes me out in an imaginative way. The second I start to actually get wound up about something, I'll switch back to PvE.
It is a game.
A game I want to win.
A game in which my PvP rep shows that I have a long way to go before this is actually the case.
Dead Calm's Defender Manifesto
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a string of emotes designed to rile you by suggesting sexual inadaquicy
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You may wish to reconsider this particular approach to the zones as it is not a closed conflict like the arena and am moderately sure that is pretty easy to cross the terms of the EULA. Given that it has now been established that there is a function in the game that can ban you from ALL chat channels this is all the more important to bear in mind (the latest patch created a database bug and a number of people have incorrectly been banned from chat for up to 58 years)
Light hearted banter in pvp is fun and part of the game, trash talk can border on abuse depending on what is being said and pvp can do without it IMHO
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
[ QUOTE ]
You may wish to reconsider this particular approach to the zones as it is not a closed conflict like the arena and am moderately sure that is pretty easy to cross the terms of the EULA. Given that it has now been established that there is a function in the game that can ban you from ALL chat channels this is all the more important to bear in mind (the latest patch created a database bug and a number of people have incorrectly been banned from chat for up to 58 years)
Light hearted banter in pvp is fun and part of the game, trash talk can border on abuse depending on what is being said and pvp can do without it IMHO
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To be honest it was a deranged idea that came to me while writing the reply. Actual trash-talk I tend to stear clear of, as it can head south very quickly indeed and spoil the atmosphere for everyone.
Incidently I don't mean smilies or chatting. Proper in-game emotes, used in a proper sequence. The power of mime, if you will. I shall be working on ways of implementing it tonight.
Remember, just because an idea is both ridiculous and almost certainly totally ineffective, it doesn't mean you should stop working on it.
Next week Dead_Calm shall be looking at ways of using Kumer Rouge brainwashing techniques in Warburg.
Dead Calm's Defender Manifesto
Aye.. i've lost a good few kills because I had to wormhole my target out of a pack of trailing NPCs. That sucks, especially considering my travel power is fly, meaning I have a terrible time catching up to runners, particularly those with mez protection that I cant do anything against :P Just part of the game, really.
However, I can see that using NPC's as an escape/protection tactic is valid too. I will never risk forcing an enemy to get aggro, simply because its too easy for the enemy to get into debt. However, if im being followed by stalkers, and I see a Longbow Warden controller with a pet out, i'll go stand near him with my FF up. A deterrant. If someone really wants to try AS me whilst my PFF recharges, they have to decide if they want to risk a warden instantly joining in.
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Your argument essentially boils down to "A person should not run. They should stand there and let me boost my PvP rep, despite the fact they could stop me killing them if they wanted."
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Your argument boils down to a simple fact - you haven't paid a blind bit of attention to my argument and are attacking without understanding.
I have said - and this will be the THIRD time I've said this - it's not about running. It's about running OFF the field. Two entirely different things.
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I say rubbish. In full-on PvP (not, as mentioned earlier, in a duel - I regard them as very much a two men enter, one man leaves kind of affair) I will use every single weapon (that is within the rules) at my disposal to win in PvP, be that attacks, defenses, using a travel powers to run to the base, jumping into a spawn so the toggle debuff you've stuck on me gets you a whole world of aggro, temporary powers, a string of emotes designed to rile you by suggesting sexual inadaquicy and getting you involved in a protracted discussion over broadcast about the best way to cook bacon in order to sneek up on you while you type your response.
[/ QUOTE ]
Leaving all the other stuff to one side I had to laugh at your "two men enter, one man leaves" reference. Which of course comes from Mad-Max; beyond Thunderdome. Lets refersh ourselves of what the Thunderdome was. It was a dome shaped cage that two men were locked inside and neither could leave until the other player was defeated.
Now, based on your description of valid tactics we'd have to modify the dome with two seperate exist, one marked Player A, the other Player B where the appropiate player could leave at any time and the opposing player couldn't follow.
Two men enter, one man leaves becomes;
Two men enter, one man leabes, but sometimes two men leave and other times neither man enters and no one leaves.
I ACTUALLY adhere to the two men enter, one man leaves which is why I NEVER flee the games area to escape an opponent; that's what the saying means.
If you cannot take someone down before they escape, and they come back and take you out, the one who has failed is you, not them. It's not exactly as if CoX is devoid of ways to stop someone escaping, and the option to retreat is there for you as well. If you do not chose to use it, tough.
[/ QUOTE ]
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
The base is not off the field.
Is kicking the ball into touch in football unsporting or is it a valid tactic to regroup and gain an advantage?
As for two-men-enter, as I said, I do that for duels. Where I am challenging a person to go one-on-one with me. A totally different game to HvV PvP, which is about two groups, often of different strengths trying to get the best of each other.
A duel is the time for honour, sportsmanship and that sort of thing. A big ruck is a case of kicking someone in the nadgers and legging it when it gets a bit hairy.
Dead Calm's Defender Manifesto
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The base is not off the field.
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Yes it is.
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Is kicking the ball into touch in football unsporting or is it a valid tactic to regroup and gain an advantage?
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No, but running off the field with the ball and staying there until the clock ticks down and your team winds, would be.
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As for two-men-enter, as I said, I do that for duels.
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Gotcha, misread, apologies.
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A duel is the time for honour, sportsmanship and that sort of thing. A big ruck is a case of kicking someone in the nadgers and legging it when it gets a bit hairy.
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An arbitary distinction.
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
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The base is not off the field.
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Yes it is.
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No, leaving the zone would be going off the field. If you're still in the zone, you're still in the zone, whether you be back at base, or at the top of the tallest building in the zone, or hovering at the flight ceiling in the corner of the zone. If it is possible to reach it within the abilities and limitations of the game, it's in the field. Going inside mission doors, leaving via the zone exits, and going inside the hospital (now, anyway) is going off the field. I've hunted people in bases when I've had to before, perfectly willing to accept droning/NPC death as a result, if I've been so minded - it's all a matter of how far you're prepared to go in order to get that victory.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
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If it is possible to reach it within the abilities and limitations of the game, it's in the field.
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Yes and no. If it's possible to reach by both parties then its in the zone, but there places in the base it's NOT possible for the enemy to attack the other player.
That, by any definition that's not made up is; off the field
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
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but there places in the base it's NOT possible for the enemy to attack the other player.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you can fire off at least one attack, it's in.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
[ QUOTE ]
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The base is not off the field.
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Yes it is.
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No, leaving the zone would be going off the field. If you're still in the zone, you're still in the zone, whether you be back at base, or at the top of the tallest building in the zone, or hovering at the flight ceiling in the corner of the zone. If it is possible to reach it within the abilities and limitations of the game, it's in the field. Going inside mission doors, leaving via the zone exits, and going inside the hospital (now, anyway) is going off the field. I've hunted people in bases when I've had to before, perfectly willing to accept droning/NPC death as a result, if I've been so minded - it's all a matter of how far you're prepared to go in order to get that victory.
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I actually quite enjoy chasing people into the base...trying desperately to get that last power off before the inevitable droning.
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The base is not off the field.
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Yes it is.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, leaving the zone would be going off the field. If you're still in the zone, you're still in the zone, whether you be back at base, or at the top of the tallest building in the zone, or hovering at the flight ceiling in the corner of the zone. If it is possible to reach it within the abilities and limitations of the game, it's in the field. Going inside mission doors, leaving via the zone exits, and going inside the hospital (now, anyway) is going off the field. I've hunted people in bases when I've had to before, perfectly willing to accept droning/NPC death as a result, if I've been so minded - it's all a matter of how far you're prepared to go in order to get that victory.
[/ QUOTE ]
I actually quite enjoy chasing people into the base...trying desperately to get that last power off before the inevitable droning.
[/ QUOTE ]
Knockout Blowing dronehugging villains into next week when they think they are safe is priceless 
.
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Knockout Blowing dronehugging villains into next week when they think they are safe is priceless .
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Especially if they're MM's who've been bugging you
I admit it's fun finishing someone off who's run back to base and thinks their safe because they dont appreciate the range of a sniper rifle but I can't help think base huggers are missing out.
I remember a protracted fight I had with a regen stalkers - I generally leave them alone as I can't bring them down before my end runs down. Anyway, I'd sniped one and saw the heal go off and thought "bugger" and broke off the engagement, but the stalker managed to get back at me with an AS before I could properly make good my escape and my health dropped into the red. There then followed a desperate chase through SC until I'd thought I'd lost him and so I landed on top of a building to rest.
Only at the last second did I realise that the AS had knocked off my targetting drone. An instant after afterward the AS hit and I was back at the hospital.
Although I lost I still think that was a good fight, because it had tension, excitement, the hero thinking they'd escaped only for the sword to fall a moment later.
I just can't help feeling that if you run for the safety of your base then you're missing all this drama. Personal choice obviously, I just can't help feeling those that do it are missing the point.
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
[ QUOTE ]
I admit it's fun finishing someone off who's run back to base and thinks their safe because they dont appreciate the range of a sniper rifle but I can't help think base huggers are missing out.
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Pfft. Snipe? SS + Melee attacks are more fun for base charging!
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I admit it's fun finishing someone off who's run back to base and thinks their safe because they dont appreciate the range of a sniper rifle but I can't help think base huggers are missing out.
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Pfft. Snipe? SS + Melee attacks are more fun for base charging!
[/ QUOTE ]
Hovering/Flying/TPing overhead + Dropping down + Melee attacks are even more fun. (Para-kiri? Para-kaze? o_O)
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
[ QUOTE ]
Its human nature and not nessesarily a truely conscious decision, after all if we were logical about it we would die in battle, get our health and stamina back and not pick up debt from the npcs doing our escape artist routine.
As for going to base, I often call teammates back to base to regroup for a big push
[/ QUOTE ]
While 20 heroes doggy paddle in the water outside the villian base with flying blaster sniping anyone hiding behind turrets.
PVP. Not a good way to work off work related stress, that much I can say