Oh, and I would prefer it if this thread didnt devolve into yet another place to bicker about how fair powers are. Anything is fair game under this subject, provided it doesnt just turn into a raging storm of people butting heads and getting nowhere.
Yes, there are some things in the game that we dont have to like, and just have to deal with, but quit using peoples frustrations as an excuse to instantly wave the "omg shut up whinger" or "get over it, noob" flags. There is no reason to be a jerk to other players, we're all here and paying for our time in-game, so we all deserve our fair say without being smacked by a mob armed with pitchforks.
Lets try to keep at least this one thread remotely stress free, let people blow off some steam. Its not like you have to reply to every last thing that you dont agree with, especially if it'll cause more hassle than its really worth.
Okay, thats me done for now :3
Were there any blasters during that little fight? DA is a resistance based set...so you shouldn't have had that much trouble hitting her at least. Although I suppose she could have been popping lucks or using some accolade I don't know about.
Oh...and...
ZOMG! You suck...PvP is so unfair to villains! 
[edit]
I've decided that I'll ignore any topic on the following:
a) tp foe (do we really need a thousand topics to discuss it?!)
b) PVP is unfair for heroes/villains
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Were there any blasters during that little fight? DA is a resistance based set...
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I thought it was defense based? The ability to completely negate damage by avoiding the attack, but having to take full damage when it actually hits?
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so you shouldn't have had that much trouble hitting her at least. Although I suppose she could have been popping lucks or using some accolade I don't know about.
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That could be possible, but we were fighting for a good half hour, so she'd eventually run out of them. We came fairly close a few times, but only really got her close to KO once. We had a few blasters pass through the team, people occasionally left and we filled the holes pretty soon after. To start with we had a handful of scrappers, two blasters, a defender and me as a grav/ff controller. No such luck.
Oh, I tell a lie.. we did actually manage to KO her once, but that wasnt really a team effort. A level 50 controller joined us for a bit, and he took her out on his own, chainhold style. In my opinion, that doesnt count as a victory for us, it counts as a solo victory for him.
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Oh...and...
ZOMG! You suck...PvP is so unfair to villains!
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Dont make me hurt you! xD
[ QUOTE ]
I've decided that I'll ignore any topic on the following:
a) tp foe (do we really need a thousand topics to discuss it?!)
b) PVP is unfair for heroes/villains
[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds like a good idea to me. Due to the multiple threads, its just a spam subject now, where everyone goes to throw their opinions around but achieve very little. I do however agree that TP Foe is being exploited, when it comes to giving opponents insta-debt. The deliberate giving of debt should really be against the rules of conduct of the game itself, just as it is against the rules to aggro a mob, then run by an AFK player, so that they faceplant as a result when you escape (and the mob jumps them on the way back).
Problem is, how will the devs make that change if they have to wade through so many topics to come to that conclusion? When there is too much spam they generally assume its just frustration and not actual need for change. You saw how many angry threats were made, and how many threats of leaving the game the devs recieved as a result of i5? Its not surprising that they wouldnt want to listen to us after the mass, obnoxious treatment they have recieved.
Oh well, i'll up-shut before this turns into a quad-paged rant on CoV, CoH, Politics, Equal Rights and World Peace. You know how it goes, right? :3
Im pretty sure dark armour is resistanc, ice and SR being the defensive sets
Strange, maybe I just confused the armor with the melee... y'know, with the accuracy debuffs.
well i dunno what the whole fuss is about as u say on your own hit and run tactics from a brute and a full pvp build pretty much does it..get acquainted with idea that a full pvp build seriously has advantage over medium or full pve builds...when i entered the zone and teamed with 7 heroes we had problem cause most of them
1)dont know to PvP
2) dont have pvp builds
As soon as we made a new team with the regular people then was all about counting how many times that brute was just awfully easy since i stopped receiving any rep for killing.
The only thing i regret was accidentally tp ing War Engine to a drone while i was all alone near hero base and made a run to avoid his team..so i apologised for that was my bad.
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well i dunno what the whole fuss is about as u say on your own hit and run tactics from a brute and a full pvp build pretty much does it..get acquainted with idea that a full pvp build seriously has advantage over medium or full pve builds...
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The fuss is about when 8 people cannot take down 1.
As I said, exemping isnt enough if a higher level character can come to a lower level PVP zone, and effectively walk over a full team of 8. Good PVP tactics and a strong build only account for so much, but when its 8vs1, and the 1 completely demolishes the others when we are all technically the same level.. its obvious that some more balancing needs to be done.
What is the point in limiting the PVP zones by level, if level 50's can come to the lower zones, and still pretty much fight like a level 50? Its not the fact that people got their [censored] kicked, because that happens all the time. Its the fact that the single person could mop up ALL of the people who are actually at the level the zone is supposed to be played with.
Effectively what will happen, if this isnt balanced out, is the level 50's will drive out all the younger characters from the PVP zones, as they wont be able to remotely stand a chance fighting against them, whether or not they have been exemped down. And if that ends up being the case, what exactly are the level-limits supposed to be for?
i ll just tell u this once...if u are 8 people and u cant take down one person than the problem is seriously at your end and not in game and enhancements...just having 8 people on person and especially some of them stacking holds is just easy as hell....thats my opinion and especially after knowing that brutes build and seen how she plays...is just too damn easy to trap her and turn her to toast...
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i ll just tell u this once...if u are 8 people and u cant take down one person than the problem is seriously at your end and not in game and enhancements...
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Actually we found it fairly easy to fight against certain others, we'd break off and hunt our targets between helping out at the hotspots, and they were good fights. Its not that we cant take out one person, its that we couldnt take out that higher-level person who had to be exemped to get into SC.
As convenient as saying the players are the problem, to use a power, we press the button that corresponds to it, then the game executes that power. If the power doesnt hit, or if its not effective, then that lies somewhere within the statistics of the game, and perhaps the enhancements of either my powers or hers. If most of my team have severe problems along the same lines, it points to her. Although on the bright side, if you're only going to 'tell me this once', then hopefully your next reply will have more insight than accusing my team of eight, of not knowing the basic tactics it should take to remove a single villain. We might have been sloppy at some parts in the fight but we're not completely incompetant. So hopefully your next reply might do a little more than insinuate we dont have a clue what we're doing. Inexperience and incompetance are different things, bud.
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just having 8 people on person and especially some of them stacking holds is just easy as hell....
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If its so easy then why did she strike on her first hit, through two dispersion bubbles, a deflection, an insulation, and a personal FF? Luck? Maybe. Attempting to repeatedly stack immobs and holds on her had no effect, not a single one of them took effect and im not even sure if even the partial effect of 'slow' occured either. Then what about having her knocked down, then surrounded by scrappers (if I remember correctly, there were three of them, four at one point), and throughout the number of times we did that, she only dipped into yellow health a few times?
The reason we spent so long on just her, is because we were so frustrated at not being able to touch that single person. Given what happened, we are left thinking that exemping isnt very effective on higher level characters. As I said, in 8vs1 even if we didnt KO her, she should have been in terribly low health each time we knocked her over and pommeled her with our scrappers.
How exactly can you say the problem is on our end? What else can we do other than repeatedly bombard her with our offensive powers, cover our allies with our defensive measures, and keep moving well so that we stay together in case of ambush, as she tried to pick us off? Even when she stopped darting around trying to pick off the squishes, and stood toe-to-toe with us, she punched straight through all the FF's (even my personal FF), to a stun on her first try, and managed to break through in two hits every time thereafter.
Because when it comes down to it, all we can do is arrange ourselves well, prepare well, and use our powers well. The basic elements of play. Positioning, movement, defense, offense. We covered them all enough that we should have been able to take her down.
What else could it be on our end that we were doing so wrong then? It has me wondering about inspirations now, but it was a fairly long fight that she was fighting our crowd through, she would have run out eventually.
Whats more, is her teammate Abberation (who I think was also a brute, but I cant remember exactly), was a lot easier to deal with. I dont recall his powerset, because as tough as he was, Lady Fuya was our main concern. Abberation really fought hard, but at least we could actually fight back against him.
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thats my opinion and especially after knowing that brutes build and seen how she plays...is just too damn easy to trap her and turn her to toast...
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Out of curiosity, what level is the character you used, and how many teammates did you have, if any?
In the end, this thread has very little to do with Lady Fuya as a character or a player. My point laid squarely in the fact that it seemed higher level players exemping down to lower level PVP zones, could easily mop up those who were actually at the PVP level.
Level 50 character -> Exemps to 30 = Uber PVP char.
Level 30 character -> Stays same on entrance = Normal PVP char.
Thats the way im looking at it right now. As you know, when you exemp, you do not revert in EVERY way to how you were at that level, your strength remains in some form, doesnt it? It might not sound like a lot, but 20 levels, even when exemped down to meet the requirements, is a lot of added punch, y'know?
Im just wondering if anyone has ever heard of something as ridiculous as this happening. With those levels and odds, she shouldnt have even stood a chance against us, but she did.. as much as i'd love to know why.. the main point of my topic here, was to mention that PVP isnt as biased as people think it is, and to bring up the subject of exemped ubercharacters completely mopping up PVP zones.
It was a good night for the villains 
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Level 50 character -> Exemps to 30 = Uber PVP char.
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Just to be clear on this: you're using level 50 as an example, right? You are not actually saying that a level 50 villain walked into Siren's Call and beat the snot out of you, you're saying that a level 31+ villain did so? Yes?
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
The brute is level 40 my character is 50 both SOed than so pretty much although there is a 10 level difference in slots....the problem is u wanna kill a brute bring down defenses and especially the specific one who plays like a stalker jumping around just use a root technique and is over...as for how good a night for villains was..well it was good till a proper team was assembled then they started the usual "you are lame" "come 1vs1" and other excuses like this lmao....remember just because i can tp you in a corner where u cant escape with hide thats not lame is just breaking your most valuable weapon..so nothing wrong to that...is simply unacceptable to hear from a stalker saying that some players are lame cause they are not allowed to run away after performing AS and they get properly faceplanted....anyway regarding the OP as u explain it then must be clearly due to SO difference and nothing more.
I havent PvPed in Sirens or Warburg as of yet, only BB, but can villains and heros do missions to improve the acc/def/res etc so that all villains/heros get that buff or debuff in those other PvP zones?
This might add to the problem
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Just to be clear on this: you're using level 50 as an example, right? You are not actually saying that a level 50 villain walked into Siren's Call and beat the snot out of you, you're saying that a level 31+ villain did so? Yes?
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Yeah, I never actually got the chance to check out what her actual level was, because we were too busy getting smothered into the pavement. She was above level 30 and thats all I know for certain, but if it turns out she isnt that far above 30, that'll only make my confusion/griping worse.
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The brute is level 40 my character is 50 both SOed than so pretty much although there is a 10 level difference in slots....
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Then if there is a 10 level difference, maybe thats why you found her so easy. The other controller in our team who was also level 50 had absolutely no troubles with her either, for the time that he was with us.
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as for how good a night for villains was..well it was good till a proper team was assembled then they started the usual "you are lame" "come 1vs1" and other excuses like this lmao
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And beside my personal rambling, I do actually believe that nearly every tactic is valid... its a PVP zone, you have to play hard to win, right? 
I just personally disagree with the few who actually try to others into debt, but that falls in line with the drone-debt and such. It might be nice just to turn off all XP debt and XP gain in the PVP zones just to stop the argueing and force it to be all about the fight
Although, I have to confess, I called Lady Fuya a coward a few times, but that was the frustration talking.
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anyway regarding the OP as u explain it then must be clearly due to SO difference and nothing more.
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So back to my original point, it sucks that original level can play such a large part in the combats outcome. My only real concern was that actual level 30 characters seem to have next to no chance against exemped highers levelled ones. The reason im harping on about this, is because I dont like the idea of higher level characters pushing out PVP'ers who are actually level 30 in SC, or level 25 in Bloody Bay.
If it were tweaked, then even levels 40-50 could get a challenge out of the younger PVP zones, and the younger PVP'ers will actually be able to fight back, or at least enjoy facing a harder opponent. I'll be using this 8 vs 1 example for a long while, because if its that off-balance then in my humble opinion, a tweak is definately needed.
Although, if anyone has any other experiences vs exemped higher level characters, please add them here!
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I havent PvPed in Sirens or Warburg as of yet, only BB, but can villains and heros do missions to improve the acc/def/res etc so that all villains/heros get that buff or debuff in those other PvP zones?
This might add to the problem
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Oh yeah... every time I go there the heroes are in -resistance and -damage. We had to spam missions just to remove the terrible resistance minus, but we finally did it. Anyone know what those plusses and minuses are capped at?
It never occured to me, but that would make it a lot worse. This never happened to me, never seen it happen, but picture this :
Villains :
Level 50 exemps down into Bloody Bay = Uber.
Villain team gets mass +res and +damage.
Hero team on -res and -damage.
Imagine the sheer level of ganking that could occur? :P
Then again, its not nearly as bad, considering Bloody Bay doesnt have a 'contract' feature, where you are trying to off a particular opponent. People would still be able to hide a lot. xD
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..as for how good a night for villains was..well it was good till a proper team was assembled then they started the usual "you are lame" "come 1vs1" and other excuses like this lmao....remember just because i can tp you in a corner where u cant escape with hide thats not lame is just breaking your most valuable weapon..so nothing wrong to that...is simply unacceptable to hear from a stalker saying that some players are lame cause they are not allowed to run away after performing AS and they get properly faceplanted....
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I agree, i like the tactics you used. Very effective, as i complimented during the fight. It's all in good fun. The storm-thingy just made it a bit more challenging to kill heroes.
Well played, hope to do it again soon.
PvP is much more about skill than lvl. Even with a bad build and DO's a good villain/hero can easily beat a lvl 50.
There are very few controllers who can lock down everything, these do quite well in PvP cause they have skill.
There are very few scrappers who can fight large spawns of 2-3+ baddies, these do well in PvP cause they have skill.
And so on.
People who are used to living on the edge of what his build can do, can survive and win against extreme odds. The same applies to PvP.
50s
controllers: Ill rad , grav rad, fire kin, ice kin
blaster: ice em
scrapper: spines sr
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I've decided that I'll ignore any topic on the following:
a) tp foe (do we really need a thousand topics to discuss it?!)
b) PVP is unfair for heroes/villains
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Seconded. It's getting boring now.
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[ QUOTE ]
I've decided that I'll ignore any topic on the following:
a) tp foe (do we really need a thousand topics to discuss it?!)
b) PVP is unfair for heroes/villains
[/ QUOTE ]
Seconded. It's getting boring now.
[/ QUOTE ]
count my vote on that as well
The fact that you bring up that you had 4 scrappers on your team trying to take down the Brute is the problem. Level does not matter as much as you think. Tactics do. Scrappers will not win you a PVP fight, especially against a Brute.
The key thing is toggle droppers. You have to remove the Brute's defenses before you can do proper damage to them. So that means Blasters. Did your blasters even try to melee attack her? I find most defense based AT's, like Brutes, Tanks and Scrappers very simple to defeat after their toggles have been dropped. Most of them don't even notice either, since they're so used to playing PVE.
I've gone 1 on 1 with the Brute you are talking about on both of my blasters(one of which is not lv 50) in both Warburg and Siren's Call and I've never had much trouble with her. After I toggle drop, she either dies or runs away really quickly.
ps. I'm not saying Lady Fuya is easy to defeat, he/she is a good player as well. I just think that you need proper tactics to take down specific AT's. Always check the AT of the person you are fighting.
pps. The PVP accuracy nerf sucks bit time, I think that's one of the other problems you seemed to be having during this fight. That was a very big mistake made by the devs IMO.
PVP accuracy nerf just means a one slot difference as you add another +acc SO. But if you don't have that you will be in trouble.
I agree that 4 scrappers vs a fully shielded en/ brute is going to be a recipe for pain, especially if you miss. Every miss makes the brute hit you harder until they are effectively doing better than scrapper criticals every blow. En melee will result in a lot of stuns taking your toggles down and if you don't drop the Brute's, well, ouch.
My guess is you got a cocktail of having non-pvp builds, the wrong tactics and bad luck.
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PVP accuracy nerf just means a one slot difference as you add another +acc SO. But if you don't have that you will be in trouble.
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No its actually worse than that.
PvE Base accuracy is 75%.
PvE accuracy with 1 SO = 75 *1.33 = 100% capped to 95%
PvP Base accuracy is 50%.
PvP accuracy with 1 SO = 50 *1.33 = 66.5%
PvP accuracy with 2 SO = 50 *1.66 = 83.0%
PvP accuracy with 3 SO = 50 *1.95 = 97.5% capped to 95%
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I agree that 4 scrappers vs a fully shielded en/ brute is going to be a recipe for pain, especially if you miss. Every miss makes the brute hit you harder until they are effectively doing better than scrapper criticals every blow. En melee will result in a lot of stuns taking your toggles down and if you don't drop the Brute's, well, ouch.
My guess is you got a cocktail of having non-pvp builds, the wrong tactics and bad luck.
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Dark Armour is a resistance set with a medium defence too.
I suspect that the brute could have had Cloak of Fear and Cloak of Darkness and Combat Jumping, which puts her at up to 10% base defence and up to a 18% to hit debuff if the Cloak of Fear debuff hits ( which will be occassionally , depending on slotting ). This puts your 4 scrappers base to hit down to 22%, before slotting so with 1 SO you have a 30% chance to hit. If she pops a purple and you don't pop a yellow you are screwed.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
I'm sorry but to me this just seems down to you guys didn't have a freakin' clue what you were doing, I'm not trying to knock anyone or anything, but come on.
You were your 50 Controller right? You can't stack a handfull of holds onto a Brute to break their mez? Are you slotting for Range or something?
4 Scrappers alone should be able to defeat any Brute, my 50 Scrapper takes them one on one so far, I think 4 should hammer one, there's a difference in slots but who doesn't have their attacks slotted well by the 30s? Defenders, Controllers and Tankers maybe.
FF have two toggle droppers available to the set, Dark Armour has alot of toggles, why weren't you toggle dropping? Did you know these powers toggle drop? Do you have them?
Just like to say I'm not knocking anyone here, I'm just putting some things out.
World of Jackcraft.
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I've decided that I'll ignore any topic on the following:
a) tp foe (do we really need a thousand topics to discuss it?!)
b) PVP is unfair for heroes/villains
[/ QUOTE ]
Seconded. It's getting boring now.
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count my vote on that as well
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Not much weight behind that vote, eh?
---This topic was made from a reply I was going to post, to someone elses thread---
I was part of a team of eight level 29-30 heroes, two of us had a full compliment of forcefields which we kept active at all times, and most of the team were scrappers. Enter a single villainess, Lady Fuya, a higher level character exemped down to level 30 in Sirens Call. Can we hit her? Hell no! Can we hold her? Hell no!
Its fair play that her build (Energy Melee/Dark Armor Brute) was great for PVP, and the fact she wisely used hit and run tactics to ensure she didnt leave much space for us to do anything, but even when we managed to knock her down, and land even a reduced hold on her (effectively just slowing her), we had massive trouble even landing -any- hits. A full team of 8, all of us at either level 29 or 30 originally, being completely torn apart by a single villain.
Dig the stats.
8 vs 1.
1 wins.
And the heroes are supposed to be the ones that have it easy? Dont make me laugh! Though as much as i'd love to kick up a whole new thread entitled "OMG PVP IS ONLY 4 VILLAINS", I can see that isnt entirely the case.
Good tactics and well chosen/slotted powers is one thing, but a team of 8, with two full compliments of FF's, and four scrappers... we should be able to do at least some fair damage on a relatively normal basis. True, we did manage to get her into the low yellows once, but thats as close as we got to KO'ing her in a full half hour of PVP. This isnt about PVP being hero OR villain oriented, this is about PVP being massively off-balanced when people start exemping down into lower zones.
If anything, you villains have no place to call PVP biased towards heroes. You have the brute class, an archetype with tanker defenses, scrapper offenses and blaster-style inherant powers that dont even require low health to become effective! Or the stalker, the perfect PVP'er when used correctly. Given the amount of damage you can do with an easily performed stealth-hit, then given the mass damage of an assassin strike, and the fact that you wont always be operating alone, you simply cannot say that it is biased in favor of the heroes :P
The last time I checked, the assassin strike still lands even when your target has long since ran away from melee range. Its like the melee sniper rifle, only its a critical, only once triggered it doesnt actually matter how far away they get from you, it still hits (passing the accuracy check). And yet we still have all these people saying heroes have it easy? I think you're just being a tad shortsighted there.
All I can say is that PVP has some serious balancing issues, and not all of them are entirely due to level 50's exemping into lower PVP zones to go stat-farming. I have to admit that PVP is a lot more fun than I had previously imagined, but a great session is often turned bad when some random idiot steps in, and deliberately slap you down to red health, then keeps attempting to teleport you into a group of comp-controlled enemies. Fair enough if someone wants to use NPC allies to help win a fight against someone, but DONT DELIBERATELY CAUSE PEOPLE DEBT.
PVP is a great thing, and it hasnt been out for long, but it looks like there are some who just want to punish honest-to-goodness players, for trying to have a bit of competetive fun. I personally dont mind the villain archetypes, as off-balance as they seem when it comes to PVP. It adds a bit of extra flavor, y'know? It keeps things interesting, and it creates a real sense of the divide between hero and villain, rather than just villains having more costume options. :P
I mean honestly, since when were villains the better dressed ones? lol
Im personally not going to bother with PVP again until they tweak it some more. A zone might say "level 25" but what it really means is "level 40 exemped", that goes for both sides of this. Though i'll probably still take my younger characters out for missions in Bloody Bay, i'll be moving with SS and im not about to pause even to look around :P
As much as I despise Lady Fuya for farming in Sirens Call, I have to acknowledge that the worst of it is simply down to the system of how PVP works out. That, and it sucks that when she should have finished me off, an Arachnos unit beat her to it, and I got an extra helping of full outdoor-grade debt.
Yes, I was a bit sore about that
At the end of the day, I really dont mind getting my [censored] handed to me, provided there is a remotely fair chance that I can at least fight back, and that debt isnt practically ensured. Hell I dont even need the real chance to win, I just need the chance to put up a half-interesting fight before they snuff me like a -20 level underling.
One of these days Lady Fuya! One of these days!
*shakes fist, swears non-specific revenge*