Positive arc threads should be allowed!

Personally, I'm disgusted by the behavior of a select few who feel that their negative and non-constructive thoughts need to be heard on any thread on this sub-forum.

This is a game. It's not serious business. And the AE is a creative tool that is meant to encourage people to be creative, not restrictive in making their arcs.

We are supposed to be encouraging people to share in this MMO format and this negative behavior turns people off.

Harsh critizism is fine when you state in your thread that you won't coddle the author but, for gods sake, keep it in your own thread.

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I was just looking at your avatar, fascinated by its hypnotic back-and-forth, and I suddenly thought what a weird hell it would be to be trapped in his mind for all eternity as he skidded in and out, over and over, never stopping...



It makes me want to find the episode its from, tbh. Any idea which one it is?

Oh, and I agree.

Eco.

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MArcs:

The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)

I agree entirely, this should be a place of creativity where people can help each other in a constructive way, a community that constantly seeks to improve itself together. The AE has a bad rap amoungst the player-base, this should be the place where we undo that, where we talk about and make stuff that's fun and worthwhile. At least, that's what I came here thinking and looking to find. Overall that's not what I've found and so I content myself with the "Recommendations" thread I made and call it good. The times when I have requested a 'review' I've done so knowingly, with an idea of what is to come.

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Criticism is fine, but I have to agree that if the best advice that can be given to the author is "take the arc down, delete it, and die in the most painful way imaginable", perhaps the arc wasn't meant for that reviewer.

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QR

Weatherby_Goode - "Heck, Carrion Creepers negates the knockdown from Carrion Creepers."

Personally, I'm disgusted by the behavior of a select few who feel that their negative and non-constructive thoughts need to be heard on any thread on this sub-forum.

My family does a flea market at a middle school in NYC on Sundays. One time when I was working with them I went into the school to use the men's room and spotted a wall full of essays by the students. It was obviously the result of a big class assignment because every single one had the same topic: extolling the virtues of being....

...average.

It was probably one of the most horrifying moments in my life.

Of course, by all accounts now things are getting even worse.

The community is not well-served by fostering an environment in which no one is allowed to be critical of anything. Architects don't deserve five stars for trying. Personal attacks aren't warranted, of course, but an attack on an arc is not an attack on an Architect. Ironically, most of the personal attacks are being directed not at Architects whose work wasn't up to snuff but towards those who dare to make that observation. I can only assume that the individuals responsible grew up in one of these "no one ever fails" environments and thus never learned that life is a contact sport.

This is a game. It's not serious business.

Anything worth doing is worth doing well.

And the AE is a creative tool that is meant to encourage people to be creative, not restrictive in making their arcs.

The fastest way to ensure a creative process will generate garbage is to remove all of the restrictions. George Lucas made the first Star Wars movie on a wing and a prayer. He had all the time and money he wanted when he made the prequels.

We are supposed to be encouraging people to share in this MMO format and this negative behavior turns people off.

Anyone driven off by criticism probably should be.

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Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"

Venture, while I'm generally in agreement with you here, I do think that the rhetoric becomes overly vitriolic at times.

There is a point at which criticism becomes unproductive. I understand your point that people who aren't willing to learn from criticism shouldn't be writing arcs - disagree, but understand. Even assuming that stance, though, there are people who are willing to learn from criticism who get so turned off by the delivery that the actual positive changes delivered within it get lost. In other words, I think a somewhat softer touch would actually further your own cause in some cases.

That said, I don't quite understand the personal attacks mounted on you. As far as I know you've never attacked an author, only the work itself, so responding with personal attacks is inexcusable.

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And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines

QR

Here's the thing, it's fine if you don't like something. I don't think anyone's saying "you have to be all hugs and like everything." But it's not fine if you go on a personal crusade to destroy something. That is just counter productive to the idea of encouraging more story-driven arcs, as opposed to the farming content we all hate.

Also, it never hurt anyone to be a bit gracious when giving opinions.

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Here's the thing, it's fine if you don't like something. I don't think anyone's saying "you have to be all hugs and like everything." But it's not fine if you go on a personal crusade to destroy something.

Tell that to the people who go on a personal crusade to destroy anyone who says anything negative. If people are going to respond to criticism with personal attacks they shouldn't be too surprised when the opposition escalates.

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Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"

[ QUOTE ]
QR

Here's the thing, it's fine if you don't like something. I don't think anyone's saying "you have to be all hugs and like everything." But it's not fine if you go on a personal crusade to destroy something. That is just counter productive to the idea of encouraging more story-driven arcs, as opposed to the farming content we all hate.

Also, it never hurt anyone to be a bit gracious when giving opinions.

[/ QUOTE ]
Even though it'll likely get me pulled into this mess, as I recall, Venture posted his opinions about Blight and was called a troll by multiple people for it. That's not a personal crusade. That's taking personal attacks from multiple people for saying his opinion about a thing that a guy wrote.

Say what you want about his tone of voice, but the only people who I've seen that are actively spreading negativity around here, are the people who feel the need to flame people that they don't like at every opportunity.

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QR - People, IGNORE Venture, do not feed the troll! He will never be 'gracious' or offer 'a somewhat softer touch'. Other people's feelings mean nothing to him, and he's said as much on numerous occasions.

Eco.

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MArcs:

The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)

There has to be a balance in all these things. Giving an arc 4 or 5 stars and saying "its cool" is just as worthless as giving it 1 or 2 and saying "it sucks".

Well thought out criticism can be very helpful to improving the work overall. But when giving reasons, if it's done in a very negative "this is pure crap" sort of way it will simply invalidate any advice given. If advice and criticism are done in a constructive, respectful way (even if it points out a hundred flaws) it is far more likely to be taken seriously and to have an impact on the work in question. This is true of critiques in any media.

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[ QUOTE ]
QR - People, IGNORE Venture, do not feed the troll! He will never be 'gracious' or offer 'a somewhat softer touch'. Other people's feelings mean nothing to him, and he's said as much on numerous occasions.

Eco.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I agree. Maybe if all the people who call him a troll at every opportunity ignore him then we can stop having so many arguments around here.

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
QR - People, IGNORE Venture, do not feed the troll! He will never be 'gracious' or offer 'a somewhat softer touch'. Other people's feelings mean nothing to him, and he's said as much on numerous occasions.

Eco.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I agree. Maybe if all the people who call him a troll at every opportunity ignore him then we can stop having so many arguments around here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. And if he could stop trolling in threads like this, then everybody would be happy

Eco.

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MArcs:

The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
QR - People, IGNORE Venture, do not feed the troll! He will never be 'gracious' or offer 'a somewhat softer touch'. Other people's feelings mean nothing to him, and he's said as much on numerous occasions.

Eco.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I agree. Maybe if all the people who call him a troll at every opportunity ignore him then we can stop having so many arguments around here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. And if he could stop trolling in threads like this, then everybody would be happy

Eco.

[/ QUOTE ]
You have him on ignore. You have no idea whether he's trolling or not.

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
QR - People, IGNORE Venture, do not feed the troll! He will never be 'gracious' or offer 'a somewhat softer touch'. Other people's feelings mean nothing to him, and he's said as much on numerous occasions.

Eco.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I agree. Maybe if all the people who call him a troll at every opportunity ignore him then we can stop having so many arguments around here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. And if he could stop trolling in threads like this, then everybody would be happy

Eco.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought you had him on ignore. So why do you care?

I personally find it hilarious that some of the people who criticize Venture for "having to get the last word in" and "not letting things go" are just as guilty of it themselves.

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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper

Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

[ QUOTE ]
I personally find it hilarious that some of the people who criticize Venture for "having to get the last word in" and "not letting things go" are just as guilty of it themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]
I was thinking the exact same thing.

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QR - And you lot lol? What is this, a game of 'No, You!'?

Eco.

---

MArcs:

The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)

[ QUOTE ]
There has to be a balance in all these things. Giving an arc 4 or 5 stars and saying "its cool" is just as worthless as giving it 1 or 2 and saying "it sucks".


[/ QUOTE ]

Or giving an arc 3 stars and saying "It ain't half good and it ain't half bad" as your "review".


WN

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Check out one of my most recent arcs:
457506 - A Very Special Episode - An abandoned TV, a missing kid's TV show host and more
416951 - The Ms. Manners Task Force - More wacky villains, Wannabes. things in poor taste
or one of my other arcs including two 2010 Player's Choice Winners and an2009 Official AE Awards Nominee for Best Original Story

[ QUOTE ]
I think a somewhat softer touch would actually further your own cause in some cases.

[/ QUOTE ]

The funny thing is that people say this and yet, like Simon Cowell, Venture's reviews are still insanely popular in comparison to everyone else's.

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OP, despite what your title erroneously (or dishonestly) implies, "positive threads" are indeed allowed. They simply aren't entitled to be free of dissenting opinion. Nor should they be.

Negative =/= non-constructive

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[ QUOTE ]
QR - And you lot lol? What is this, a game of 'No, You!'?

Eco.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to follow his advice for once.

/ignore MrCaptainMan

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[ QUOTE ]
OP, despite what your title erroneously (or dishonestly) implies, "positive threads" are indeed allowed. They simply aren't entitled to be free of dissenting opinion. Nor should they be.

Negative =/= non-constructive

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but needlessly sarcastic, rude, insulting vitriol (such as, for example "I wish it could be erased from the database") is.

Eco.

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MArcs:

The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)

I'm sorry, Laz, I have you on ignore too, so there's no point responding to any of my posts.

Eco

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MArcs:

The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
OP, despite what your title erroneously (or dishonestly) implies, "positive threads" are indeed allowed. They simply aren't entitled to be free of dissenting opinion. Nor should they be.

Negative =/= non-constructive

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but needlessly sarcastic, rude, insulting vitriol (such as, for example "I wish it could be erased from the database") is.

Eco.

[/ QUOTE ]
You know, ignoring someone is more than just pushing a button. You actually have to ignore the person. Continuing to argue with someone while you can't see their posts is frankly childish.

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[ QUOTE ]
It's not serious business.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course not. It's Serious Business!!!

In a more, erm, serious light, negative critique can be a good thing. I recently got a two-star on one of my arcs since they discovered a logic error (which was exceedingly embarassing) and a level gap that almost led to a wipe. Fixing these greatly improved the arc. Someone else two-starred it because they didn't find the arc funny. Since that's opinion, there's nothing I can do about that. However, one of my efforts to extend the length of the arc he very validly called out as being a pointless time sink and I'll be editting that soon.

Personally, I'm fine with negative critique as long as it is actually constructive. A couple of reviewers might stand to have slightly better tact in how they say things but a lot of us submitters need to grow thicker skin. Something else is that we positive minded folks need to promote each other. 75% of the time I suggest someone else's arc instead of mine on Arc Night since I like to show people arcs I've enjoyed.

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