Seriously Witch Engine, just apologize for your arc kicking Venture's dog, and the healing can begin.
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As Lazarus points out 12 Monkeys plays games with the main character's head but plays fair with the audience. Good luck with that in a MA project.
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Since the audience is the main character, there is the paradox of this logic. You cannot both "play games with" and "play fair" at the same time. If we accept this a fundamental feature of this media, then we can entertain stories that do either one or the other. This arc is one that 'plays games', most of the other arcs out there are ones that 'play fair'. I think there is room for both in the MA and I enjoy both.
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Controversy does not equate to profundity. The entire field of postmodernism brought about no end of controversy but had very little actual content. Rush Limbaugh or Michael Moore could fart into a microphone and cause two weeks of arguments.
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Perhaps not, but controversy is spawned when a particular topic strikes a chord (or discord) and incites people to talk about it thus proving its significance even if it is not inherently profound. As to postmodernism, you have just dismissed out of hand an entire branch of philosophy and I don't think Rush Limbaugh would like to be called a postmodernist. Whether or not a particular philosophy holds any value it is never wise to flippantly dismiss it.
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What would we get if we included your last name, using all the letters? My guess is you couldn't make anything out of it without leaving out letters. It is much more likely that an anagram in a name found in an arc is the result of deliberate choice than mere coincidence, so it is proper for the player to assume it is going to be significant until shown not to be.
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It was a joke by example, I'll refrain from such in the future. 
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Oh, I agree, Bay's stuff isn't exactly the pinnacle of literature
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Bay is a director, He's not a screenwriter. None of his work can be remotely called literature at all. It's film. An entirely different medium.
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Well to be fair he's not much of a director either.
And I wouldn't say he makes films, he makes movies.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
To address a few concerns:
Q: "Why do you have to blow up the canisters instead of clicking on them?"
A: You are not allowed to place clickes or defendables on the Atlas Park map. I worked with the tools I had to try and put out the story I wanted to tell.
This isn't the first time you blow up canisters and whatnot to stop a plague in game, and since this is the same game where the preferred method of stopping a ghost is punching it in the face repeatedly, smashing the shell and incinerating the canister didn't seem out of line. Nobody bats an eye when you have to hack computer codes with your caveman character every other mission, or when NPCs tell you to do other equally ridiculous things, I had no idea people would make such a big deal out of something that routinely happens in the game anyways.
Q: Wouldn't a hazmat team be disposing of this stuff? Where is the hazmat team?
A: The contact mentions (twice actually) that they ARE sending in a hazmat team to ensure the area is safe once you clear out the Arachnos. When you leave the map for the first time, it's clearly stated the sent in a cleanup team to scrub the area.
Furthermore, your contact is a doctor who specializes in cleanups in this situation (mentioned in passing in mission dialog, and specifically in 'about this contact'), and he gives you to go-ahead to go on your way after the mission.
Q) No competent HAZMAT worker would make that assumption. They'd assume the worst because they'd have to. Why didn't they track it?
A) They did. It's stated in the 1st mission dialog that Arachnos came straight down in their fliers, and immediately set up. After you check the area, you report back to Solemnise, who informs you they're waiting for Liberty to show up, and that they are sending in the cleanup crew. Mission dialog then points out specifically that 24 hours after they'd been in there, since they didn't return, they sent in SWAT and superheroes to investigate. The Hazmat team was doing their job, but as evidenced by mission 2, just ran out of time.
Q) Why does Ms. Liberty have a Katana?
A) That's Hero-1's sword, that she normally wears at her waist. In game lore, she refuses to use it, instead holding on to it, awaiting Hero-1's return.
Since you can't add it to a custom costume, and she is a little, well, out of it, I thought it would be fun to have her swinging it around at foes. Used Katana since it has a rusty model (dragging a sword THROUGH buildings can't be healthy for it) and it mentions this in her custom mob description as well.
Q) Synapse ran off and spread it? Why didn't anyone stop him?
A) Synapse moves at incredible speeds. It's not a stretch to imagine that given the speed Blight took effect in Atlas, he could have been infected and rocketing across america before anyone was able to raise the barriers. The problem with catching a superspeeder, is if you're slower than them you have to anticipate where they're going to later be, not where they are.
Q) How do we know Mako created this thing anyways? Why does he have command of the Arachnoids?
A) 2 different sets of NPCs specifically mention the Blight was created by Mako's crew in Mission 1, with different dialog on each group. Mako's dialog in Mission 3 has him bullying the Arachnoids around, calling them freaks and informing them they're making a last stand.
The combination was partly chosen to set up a brief red herring for observant players that all the survivors were half person/half animal creatures so they might think 'maybe that's a part of the cure', partly because I felt it made his dialog 'you won't turn us into abominations like you' funnier given who he's standing around with, and partly because they're some of the strongest, nastiest guys in Grandville, so it makes sense they'd be some of the last survivors.
Q) Why is the clockwork king there?
A) He's supposed to look horribly out of place. You're a crazy person. Your stories are starting to break down, bleed into each other, and outright shatter the further and further you get off your 'meds'.
Q) Why Solemnise?
A) The definition 'to perform his duties with gravity' I actually thought fits him well. Every step of the way, from your perspective, he's the one trying his best to help you, despite it seeming to be a hopeless situation, even if that situation changes. Plus, it only makes 'Lord Nemesis' if you include the 'Dr.' and I had a few people remark in comments that it completely threw them off because they dropped that part of the name when they went over it in their heads.
Q) Why does the Chief call you your hero name? Why does the zombie look like a zombie?
A) It's mentioned in the clues in that mission that even while 'on your treatment' you still resist a lot of the staff's attempt to rehabilitate you, and aren't entirely lucid. It's mentioned that referring to you by your 'hero' name has, previously, tended to calm you enough to let them administer your medication. the zombie only looks like a zombie to you. Note that nobody else seems to see him that way, or react to him being out of place.
Q) How can a hostpital forbid a mother from seeing their child.
A) Having worked in hospital security in the psychiatric ward, this actually isn't uncommon at all, depending on the state of the patient and whatever else is going on.
Q) Where are all the doctors named Marcus Cole and so forth? Why does this hospital look like a tech lab?
A) I don't know, did you ask any of those doctors wandering around their names? For all you know you had the entire freedom phalanx run right by. I'm not going to change every single NPC on that map into a reference, that's just silly.
It looks like a Tech Lab because the game has no hospital map in it aside from the asylum, and making it the white portal maps would have made it excruciatingly large, which would do nothing but be added time sink. Plus you know SOMEONE would have complained then that tere was giant portal equipment everywhere and portal signs. I picked a small, clean-looking map. The player has to use a little imagination, but maybe that was asking too much 
Q) Why is it not a definitive ending? The Nemesis Plot ending would have been more coherent, pick an ending.
A) I actually thought the ending was fairly clear. Think about how really really stupid the Nemesis ending would be if it were the 'true' ending. It's horror, so really unhappy endings are perfectly acceptable, but, because I knew people like Venture would get bitter about insinuating their character was a nutjob, I left it as an 'out' to disregard everything that had happened.
I'd like to note that once the hospital is introduced, you are told repeatedly that there's no supervillain plot, up to and including the fight with 'Nemesis' in which it begins with him outright stating he's not Nemesis, and then ending with you tearing off his mask to reveal...he's not Nemesis.
Plus, if you watch the dialog, the longer the fight drags on, the more corny and ham-fisted his dialog becomes...until it reaches a point where it's like the NPC dialog in mission 1 - putting you right back on the edge of when you were fully convinced Paragon City was real at the start of the arc.
Really, find me a mission in the regular game where we stop a plague by blowing up biohazard cannisters. I'll wait.
Anyhow, another reason for why the Nemesis plot ending would work better: in the end we're done with this arc and none of it happened. Atlas Park is still there and looks just fine.
Whether you want to treat AE as just a simulator or as actual canon is up to the player, but in the end you simply are not what the arc tries to make you think you arc. This all being a plot by Nemesis to get some critical information out of you, like in the Star Trek: TNG episode "Frame of Mind" would have worked very well in such a case and could be believed to have actually happened? This "oh you're an insane lunatic" ending is just better off ignored because it didn't happen anyway.
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Q) Why does Ms. Liberty have a Katana?
A) That's Hero-1's sword, that she normally wears at her waist. In game lore, she refuses to use it, instead holding on to it, awaiting Hero-1's return.
Since you can't add it to a custom costume, and she is a little, well, out of it, I thought it would be fun to have her swinging it around at foes. Used Katana since it has a rusty model (dragging a sword THROUGH buildings can't be healthy for it) and it mentions this in her custom mob description as well.
[/ QUOTE ]
From the Paragonwiki entry on Ms. Liberty (most likely copy/pasted from somewhere official):
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The sword Ms. Liberty carries is the fabled Excalibur, which Hero 1 entrusted it to Miss Liberty while he journeyed to the Rikti homeworld with the rest of the Omega Team, and she passed it down to her daughter. Although she cannot wield the sword, Ms. Liberty carries it at her side waiting for the day when Hero 1 returns.
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So 1: It's Excalibur. Swords with names generally don't rust. Since in the CoH universe this is most likely THE Excalibur, it should be a broadsword.
2: It's not that she doesn't want to use it; she can't use it. Swords with names are sometimes funny like that.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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Seriously Witch Engine, just apologize for your arc kicking Venture's dog, and the healing can begin.
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That won't solve anything, since it's reached the point where the entire MA Forum has started arguing with Venture. Actually if anything, this is getting Witch Engine tons of exposure.
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Seriously Witch Engine, just apologize for your arc kicking Venture's dog, and the healing can begin.
[/ QUOTE ]
That won't solve anything, since it's reached the point where the entire MA Forum has started arguing with Venture. Actually if anything, this is getting Witch Engine tons of exposure.
[/ QUOTE ]
While the rating of the arc drops. Law of Averages has already taken hold.
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Seriously Witch Engine, just apologize for your arc kicking Venture's dog, and the healing can begin.
[/ QUOTE ]
That won't solve anything, since it's reached the point where the entire MA Forum has started arguing with Venture. Actually if anything, this is getting Witch Engine tons of exposure.
[/ QUOTE ]
While the rating of the arc drops. Law of Averages has already taken hold.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm just saying, everyone running to defend someone from Venture/use this as an opportunity to get their kicks is what's causing this debate to continue. Venture's just one person, people.
This is getting silly.
Stephen Sheridan has a mission in which one of the stated objectives is 'Destroy the Mutagenic Cansiters" which cause people who come in contact with them to become Lost.
You also ignored everything else addressing your points, many of which seemed to be you missing mission dialog, or just personal preference rather than actual plot holes.
EvaDestruction: Even the smallest broadsword is far bigger than the sword she uses, and to my knowledge, it says nowhere in game that she -can't- use it.
Good lord, the way people are obsessively deconstructing this arc you think they'd want me to have written the next great American novel, and not the 'fun mission that I put some thought into in a game where you fly around and shoot things with spandex' that I intended it to be.
I think it's more than a little unfair that people are treating this now as something to be hyperanalyzed every step of the way (despite a lot of those boiling down to people ignoring the actual NPC and mission dialog) when I never made claims it was some great work of literature, though I mean, the fact that they seem to hold me to those standards is a little flattering because it says to me they must think I'm on that level since that's the level they're breaking the arc down on.
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Seriously Witch Engine, just apologize for your arc kicking Venture's dog, and the healing can begin.
[/ QUOTE ]
That won't solve anything, since it's reached the point where the entire MA Forum has started arguing with Venture. Actually if anything, this is getting Witch Engine tons of exposure.
[/ QUOTE ]
While the rating of the arc drops. Law of Averages has already taken hold.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's funny actually, because near the start of this thread, the arc had over 90% 5-star votes, and nearly a hundred votes. Once the 'forum cartel' folk latched on, it all of a sudden got hit with a bunch of 1 and 2 star votes that have been coming in in bursts. But not before, and the arc had literally been around months, and hadn't been advertised at all. My supergroup has 4 active players, and my coalition has another 6-8, so I know those prior masses of 5-star votes weren't from them. We're a small crew.
The lesson here is, don't dare upset the Forum Cartel because apparently they've got connections. :P
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Stephen Sheridan has a mission in which one of the stated objectives is 'Destroy the Mutagenic Cansiters" which cause people who come in contact with them to become Lost.
[/ QUOTE ]
So one old arc from before issue 1, which was rife with bad writing, and has never been done again since. That's hardly something that we do all the damn time in this game, which is what you try to make it sound like.
[ QUOTE ]
It's funny actually, because near the start of this thread, the arc had over 90% 5-star votes, and nearly a hundred votes. Once the 'forum cartel' folk latched on, it all of a sudden got hit with a bunch of 1 and 2 star votes that have been coming in in bursts. But not before, and the arc had literally been around months, and hadn't been advertised at all. My supergroup has 4 active players, and my coalition has another 6-8, so I know those prior masses of 5-star votes weren't from them. We're a small crew.
The lesson here is, don't dare upset the Forum Cartel because apparently they've got connections. :P
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh get over yourself. Almost no one makes it past the 100 vote mark with a 5-star average, you weren't anything special really to begin with. Next are you going to blame the person who started this thread and began hyping the arc up on your behalf?
I simply said it had precident. Nowhere diud I say you do it all the time, just that it's not out of place AND had been done before in game. Note that you also destroy bombs by punching them every third story arc, too. That makes about as much sense.
What about all the other complaints you had that I addressed? If you're going to overanalyze the arc, I would at least think you'd have the courtesy to follow the dialog in the arc before complaining something doesn't make sense.
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As Lazarus points out 12 Monkeys plays games with the main character's head but plays fair with the audience. Good luck with that in a MA project.
[/ QUOTE ]
Since the audience is the main character, there is the paradox of this logic. You cannot both "play games with" and "play fair" at the same time. If we accept this a fundamental feature of this media, then we can entertain stories that do either one or the other. This arc is one that 'plays games', most of the other arcs out there are ones that 'play fair'. I think there is room for both in the MA and I enjoy both.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think its possible albeit difficult to pull off well.
The Sixth Sense borders on this territory. The movie is deliberately crafted to slip the audience into a pseudo-first person perspective, and then plays games with that perspective. But it plays fair: it doesn't hide anything from the player that isn't hidden from the main character himself. Furthermore it isn't a conventional gotcha in that its written to make the audience *want* to pursue the perspective of the main character, which is to help the boy.
In my opinion, the genius of the movie is that it doesn't cheat: the big reveal doesn't, as so many others do, *add* new information that changes the meaning of the story in ways the audience couldn't have predicted, it actually *subtracts* the rest of the movie from the clues, and without the distraction of the rest of the movie the dots become suddenly easy to connect.
Partly illustrating what makes that so difficult is that, having done it once, even Shyamalan can't figure out how to do it a second time.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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Oh get over yourself. Almost no one makes it past the 100 vote mark with a 5-star average, you weren't anything special really to begin with. Next are you going to blame the person who started this thread and began hyping the arc up on your behalf?
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Oh for the love of - that was a joke at the end there. Sorry master Lazarus, I've learned my lesson, I will never attempt to lighten the mood with humor again.
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While the rating of the arc drops. Law of Averages has already taken hold.
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It's funny actually, because near the start of this thread, the arc had over 90% 5-star votes, and nearly a hundred votes. Once the 'forum cartel' folk latched on, it all of a sudden got hit with a bunch of 1 and 2 star votes that have been coming in in bursts. But not before, and the arc had literally been around months, and hadn't been advertised at all. My supergroup has 4 active players, and my coalition has another 6-8, so I know those prior masses of 5-star votes weren't from them. We're a small crew.
The lesson here is, don't dare upset the Forum Cartel because apparently they've got connections. :P
[/ QUOTE ]
Or, you know, whenever something is hyped as THE BEST THING EVAR there will inevitably be people who are severely disappointed that it doesn't live up to the hype.
And, when people look at THE BEST THING EVAR with a critical eye they will find flaws that they may have previously overlooked.
And, when an arc is on the first few pages it will inevitably get 1- and 2- star votes that it wouldn't otherwise have gotten, for whatever reason.
Or, it could all be a Forum Cartel plot.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
Eva - I actually agree completely. The arc IS overhyped at this point, and I mean, saying that as the writer is pretty damning. There is no way it can live up to the insane scrutiny it's getting because I seriously didn't ever in a million years think anyone would take ANYTHING in this game this seriously, let alone my dumb arc.
The cartel plot thing was a joke since yes, it's pretty obvious that the hype of having the forum big names all over it has brought a ton of people in with a much more critical eye than the previous players. Apparently the joke fell completely flat. No, I do not actually think that there's any conspiracy or cartel affecting my arc, I think if anything, it just can't live up to people's expectations now after the somewhat damning BEST ARC EVER start this thread had.
Your post count makes you right!
Sorry, I had to. (And for posterity, it's currently 1337, that most coveted of post counts - at least until 31337.)
And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines
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Seriously Witch Engine, just apologize for your arc kicking Venture's dog, and the healing can begin.
[/ QUOTE ]
That won't solve anything, since it's reached the point where the entire MA Forum has started arguing with Venture. Actually if anything, this is getting Witch Engine tons of exposure.
[/ QUOTE ]
While the rating of the arc drops. Law of Averages has already taken hold.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's funny actually, because near the start of this thread, the arc had over 90% 5-star votes, and nearly a hundred votes. Once the 'forum cartel' folk latched on, it all of a sudden got hit with a bunch of 1 and 2 star votes that have been coming in in bursts. But not before, and the arc had literally been around months, and hadn't been advertised at all. My supergroup has 4 active players, and my coalition has another 6-8, so I know those prior masses of 5-star votes weren't from them. We're a small crew.
The lesson here is, don't dare upset the Forum Cartel because apparently they've got connections. :P
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, my suspicions are that forum readers in general give statistically lower ratings than non-forum readers. At least one reason for this may be as simple as the fact that the players that subscribe to the forums in the first place are self-selected to be more critical in general. Players less likely to want to participate on the forums are also less likely to want to pass criticism onto other players, and more likely to rate slightly higher on average as a result.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
[ QUOTE ]
Note that you also destroy bombs by punching them every third story arc, too.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hyperbole will get you nowhere. Aside from the rare set of explosives that are placed so that you can use them to hurt the surrounding enemies, nowhere do we go around punching bombs to disarm them.
Except of course the Rikti raids, and the hero respec trial. And, if I cared to check, I bet I could find a handful of story arcs where you do it too.
You're still ignoring where I pointed out all the dialog you ignored then ranted that something wasn't addressed in the mission when it was. Please don't be so selective with what you're arguing here, I'd appreciate your feedback on those points.
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While the rating of the arc drops. Law of Averages has already taken hold.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's funny actually, because near the start of this thread, the arc had over 90% 5-star votes, and nearly a hundred votes. Once the 'forum cartel' folk latched on, it all of a sudden got hit with a bunch of 1 and 2 star votes that have been coming in in bursts. But not before, and the arc had literally been around months, and hadn't been advertised at all.
...
The lesson here is, don't dare upset the Forum Cartel because apparently they've got connections. :P
[/ QUOTE ]
It's just publicity, I'm sure. This arc is getting a lot of people playing it due to word of mouth, people playing it because they want to see if Reviewer A is right, people playing it because they want to prove that Reviewer B is wrong, and people playing it just to see what the hype's all about. Heck, I read this whole thread and I haven't played the arc and didn't even have it on my radar before.
Anyway, as a result of your arc getting a lot more exposure, you'll get a lot more plays. As a result, you'll get the guy who gives you a bad rating because your arc isn't good exp, the one who gives you a bad rating because your arc is too easy, the one who gives you a bad rating because your arc is too hard, the one you hates the ruined Atlas Park map, the one who hates Lord Nemesis, the one who just isn't impressed with anything and purposely never rates anything high, the one who gives you a low rating out of pure spite because your rating is too high, the one who loved the arc except for a minor typo in mission 4 which caused him to dock you 2 stars, and so on, and so forth.
Best you can do (IMHO) is smile and say "Thanks for trying my arc!"
Make changes based on suggestions you think are helpful; don't make the changes you think aren't right for your story.
So let's not hear any more about some sort of Forum Cartel Conspiracy. Really, Mr. Doe, do we need to increase the dosage of your medication? It sounds like these delusions of being some sort of mission author are returning! And we were doing so well before! You don't want to have to be transferred back into the rubber padded room, do you? DO YOU?!!
@PW - Police Woman (50 AR/dev blaster on Liberty)
TALOS - PW war journal - alternate contact tree using MA story arcs
=VICE= "Give me Liberty, or give me debt!"
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To address a few concerns:
(tl;dr)
[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, seriously, you're not doing yourself any favors now. You wrote a pretty good arc and did a great job using the MA tools to implement it. A lot of people love it. Some people don't like it or are critical of it. Let the arc stand on its own. Don't try to "explain" things that people "aren't getting". Igonre the little voice that says "but only if they *understand*, I'm sure they'd all come around and we could all be great friends!".
Character index
Policewoman - like I said, I know it's simply a matter of exposure and people who wouldn't have sought out the arc on their own playing it because of that, and, broken record time - my joke about it fell really really flat.
The board are serious business!
[semi-QR]
Someone made a thread praising an arc I didn't like?! Quickly! Man the thread crapper!