with the difficulty slider changes coming in Issue 16, Warshades will be superior since you can get the maximum benefit of your variable buffs while solo.
Of course if you plan to keep with standard difficulty settings, PB is superior because it's more constant and not variable-based.
what about pvp? I know PB's are good pvpers from my knowledge but what are Warshades like in Player versus Player combat? Also, how can PB's hold against larger groups of enemies or WS's vs. stronger enemies?
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what about pvp? I know PB's are good pvpers from my knowledge but what are Warshades like in Player versus Player combat? Also, how can PB's hold against larger groups of enemies or WS's vs. stronger enemies?
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lol pvp
Well, PvP is in a certain amount of flux right now, but generally speaking Kheldians are not the best-suited AT for PvP.
Of the two, PBs are the better choice for PvP because of more/stronger melee attacks and greater self-contained survivability. Several of the Warshade powers require enemies (alive or dead) in order to function, which works out to a disadvantage in 1v1 combat when there's nothing to fuel powers like Mire or Circle.
This isn't to say that a Warshade can't PvP, only that the AT isn't ideal for it, meaning that build and player skill have to be correspondingly better to make up the difference.
Iscariot's Guide to the Tri-Form Warshade, version 2.1
I'm sorry that math > your paranoid delusions, but them's the breaks -- Nethergoat
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thats really helpful, but what about my question on how warshades handle single bosses or peacebringers attacked masses of enemies?
It's not a valid question. In terms of PvE, the bosses and big groups questions are highly build-dependent. It's not PB vs WS.
It's Tri-Form PB vs Human/Dwarf PB vs Human/Nova PB vs Human Only PB vs Tri-Form WS vs Human/Dwarf WS vs Human/Nova WS vs Human Only WS.
It's not really possible to make a blanket PvE statement about PBs or WSs, therefore. In general terms, the WS is going to feed off of large mobs because of the scaling buffs in Mire, Eclipse and Circle, while the PB has more self-heals and hard-hitting ST attacks.
A WS may have trouble with single bosses if they have to take them cold, but a good WS typically won't do that but will instead try to take the boss down using buffs from other mobs in the final room. This is more difficult when EBs/AVs are involved, of course.
I wouldn't say either flavor of Kheldian would be unable to do either type of PvE, it's just a matter of how fast you're able to do it with your particular AT, build and power choices. Both the PB and the WS have the potential to clear masses of enemies and to take down single boss targets.
Iscariot's Guide to the Tri-Form Warshade, version 2.1
I'm sorry that math > your paranoid delusions, but them's the breaks -- Nethergoat
P.E.R.C. Rep for Liberty server
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thats really helpful, but what about my question on how warshades handle single bosses or peacebringers attacked masses of enemies?
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PBs handle single foes better and WS handle multiple foes better. They perform about the same outside of their specialty.
EDIT: I'm refering to just general performance. I'll leave all the fine details to Justaris.
I mainly am centered around tri-forms of either AT and what im essentially trying to decide is that WS looked very interesting at fun to me, but some aspects turned me to take a look at the PB which I like except that it sounds a little slow and has trouble handling more enemies. What are the drawbacks and weaknesses of a PB as oppose to the WS?
If we're talking Tri-Form in both cases?
The WS is going to pull ahead in larger mobs, such as an 8-man team on high difficulty settings. With enough mobs to fuel the Mire and Eclipse buffs, the Tri-Form WS is a juggernaut and Stygian Circle ensures that the juggernaut never stops rolling. So that's the upside.
As previously mentioned, the WS has some trouble with single tough bosses, especially if the boss in question is tough enough to outlast the initial round of buffs. The Tri-Form WS will buff up with Mire and Eclipse on the boss's mob but will soon take all of them out. At this point there's only one enemy left (the boss) and that's not enough to get a good buff from either power. This can make for a long, drawn-out fight in Dwarf. So that's the downside. For some EBs or AVs you may even need teammates and/or temp powers to win out.
A Tri-Form PB also puts out significant AoE damage but doesn't have the scaling buffs of the WS. Build Up doesn't last nearly as long and is therefore more difficult to use in forms (you lose a significant part of your Build Up time just shifting). So the PB does good AoE but not at the level of the Mired WS.
By contrast, the PB's R-Strike and I-Strike help to deal with bosses, as do the self-heals. On the boss question the PB has the edge since Build Up, Essence Boost, Reform Essence, Conserve Energy, etc all give the same benefit whether you're fighting one enemy or fifteen. So you don't have the dropoff you see with the WS.
Again, I want to stress that these are general trends based on the way the powers work. I'm not saying you can't do great AE damage as a PB or take down hard targets with a WS; these are just the natural strengths of the ATs. Build is a huge factor for any Kheld, as is playstyle.
Iscariot's Guide to the Tri-Form Warshade, version 2.1
I'm sorry that math > your paranoid delusions, but them's the breaks -- Nethergoat
P.E.R.C. Rep for Liberty server
A PB has a harder time reaching Resistance, Damage, and Accuracy caps solo. Due to the nature of their buffs, they get more constant but lower spiking buffs.
A WS can reach the Damage Resistance, Damage, and Accuracy cap solo when surrounded by 10 foes (only six or seven are needed for Resistance, fewer for Accuracy, but Damage needs a bit more).
Really, it's not that PBs are slower, or can't handle more enemies, it's that Warshades are designed to spike higher because they have a harder requirement to meet.
Thanks, I am thinking to go Warshade. Ill probably use yer guide Justaris. I am assuming the Dwarf and Nova's are pretty much the same and I will find ways to get around the challanges for either AT. Thanks for your help.
As to those who said pvp...PB's are SPECTACULAR in pvp if you build them right. Spend most of your time in nova, put some range/Damage HO's and some PVP IO's for plus range and you are looking at 175 ranged single target attacks from nova, doing great damage. Also PB has dull pain and reconstruction as well as phase. You can also get a heal from dwarf form and a strong melee attack if you dare to enter melee.
Teamwise, I find PBs to be more versatile, while WSs are more damage oriented.
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Teamwise, I find PBs to be more versatile, while WSs are more damage oriented.
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This is correct and incorrect. Speaking in Human-Form terms, PBs are more damage oriented while WSs are more control/debuff/messing-with-the-bodies oriented.
Solo, PBs are scrappy and somewhat easy to solo. WSs are a little tougher if you dont know what you're doing.
Luckily I came from a Kin/Rad Def to a WS, so it was a little easier of a transition for me.
All of which is IMHO, of course.
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As to those who said pvp...PB's are SPECTACULAR in pvp if you build them right. Spend most of your time in nova, put some range/Damage HO's and some PVP IO's for plus range and you are looking at 175 ranged single target attacks from nova, doing great damage. Also PB has dull pain and reconstruction as well as phase. You can also get a heal from dwarf form and a strong melee attack if you dare to enter melee.
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This. I've seen some very tough PBs in RV. They are harder than hell to kill, with Reconstruction and a DP clone. And that Incandescent Strike deals some pretty good damage from what I've seen. And they get BU.
I like them both. I can solo with both, team with both, and lose quite well in PvP/E with both. I find when soloing it is the INS you carry/combine with the AT that can make the difference. I have a mid 30 human only PB which can handle mobs quite well when build with FIGHTING, HASTEN, and FITNESS. Run in drop a nuke, take a blue, click away on my AOE while pounding the solo target. (My human only WS is the sort of the same but with MEDICINE (mainly for heal self).) However, as basically pointed out in a previous posts, it has a lot to do with play style, build, and preference.
The only real advise I can give is to use some IO sets that increase HP, and/or defense.
My 49 is a scrapper but their playstyle eventually bored me, although I prefer to solo. It's still a tough decision for me to make between the two. I also like huge mobs which leads me to the Warshade, but I still would muchrather solo. Does a Warshade typically have a easier time soloing in dwarf/nova?
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My 49 is a scrapper but their playstyle eventually bored me, although I prefer to solo. It's still a tough decision for me to make between the two. I also like huge mobs which leads me to the Warshade, but I still would muchrather solo. Does a Warshade typically have a easier time soloing in dwarf/nova?
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You imply you do not like melee toons. I would not bother with these AT's. They are heavily depend upon melee and melee ranged atts. I am not sure, but I think these toons were meant to please the blapper and anti blapper groups, must like some of the I16 additions are meant to please the farming and anti farming groups.
Dwarf is a stripped down tank. Nova is a supped up blaster. Realistically, these AT's seemed to be designed for team play but due to power pools, and sets, you can build them for solo play. I took, fighting, super speed, and fitness to help with human form solo play, and medicine to help solo with my WS. It is really going to come down to you, and how you like to play, and your build.
Even before I13, and before IO-sets, you could still build a Kheldian for solo-play using nothing but SO's.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
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As to those who said pvp...PB's are SPECTACULAR in pvp if you build them right. Spend most of your time in nova, put some range/Damage HO's and some PVP IO's for plus range and you are looking at 175 ranged single target attacks from nova, doing great damage. Also PB has dull pain and reconstruction as well as phase. You can also get a heal from dwarf form and a strong melee attack if you dare to enter melee.
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This. I've seen some very tough PBs in RV. They are harder than hell to kill, with Reconstruction and a DP clone. And that Incandescent Strike deals some pretty good damage from what I've seen. And they get BU.
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I have to chime in and agree with the two quoted posts. As a long time PB PvPer (long before the current iteration that could be considered PB's "golden age" of PvP) PBs are by far superior in PvP to WS's.
In fact, I'd say they are right up there with the top AT's hero-side in overall effectiveness and survivability. Sure, you won't kill as quickly as a blaster, but you can pump out some mean damage. If you build it right, you get 3 heals that recharge quickly, you get 2 perma-cycling mini-snipes in Nova and some ancillary powers that help get you through (like Qfly) the rough spots.
I think WS looks promising to me. If I were to solo as a Warshade should the difficulty be set to either Tenacious or Unyielding due to those difficulties granting more mobs?
I tend to wait before changing any difficulty settings. Usually by the time I have the Nova AoE attacks slotted up with IOs (or the Dwarf Form and the Dwarf Mire).
No sense in getting ahead of yourself and facing more enemies then you can handle when you don't have the powers to handle it (Mires, AoE attacks in Nova, Eclipse, or a Corpse power or two, etc). In other words, wait until you have powers that like larger spawns before you get the larger spawns.
so keep the diff as it is untill i get Mire or other AoE things, but then I should use those difficulties right? Because of more mobs? Are the khelds nearly the same at the beginning levels?
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Teamwise, I find PBs to be more versatile, while WSs are more damage oriented.
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This is correct and incorrect. Speaking in Human-Form terms, PBs are more damage oriented while WSs are more control/debuff/messing-with-the-bodies oriented.
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A PB can control with knockback, act as a pseudo defender with glowing touch, scrap with melee attacks & blast with range. If you include the three forms then you add tanking & more blasting. Much more versatile than a WS. WS has some variety but lacks the all around punch of versatility that the PB can bring.
Still great for teams but just not as versatile. A WS can't fill as many roles as a PB on a team.
My char is lvl 49 so im planning to get a kheld, and i know most of what there is to know about them but i haven't had any actual experience playing as one and I rarely grouped with one. I know that PB are better at solo and Warshade group, but what about vice versa. How can a PB hold against larger amount of enemies or a Warshade vs. a Boss. Right now the PB is looking better to me but I wouldn't like it if it couldn't handle anything more than a few enemies or the Warshade against single or fewer more powerful enemies because of it's reliance on defeated foes.