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A PB can control with knockback
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You and I clearly have very different definitions of "control".
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[ QUOTE ]
A PB can control with knockback
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You and I clearly have very different definitions of "control".
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Oh god, please don't get me started on why I hate having PBs on a team at times.
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[quote A WS can't fill as many roles as a PB on a team.
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This. PB's are better at tanking, have a minor heal, and are good at blasting. WS, IMO, are just there to do damage.
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WSs have much much better mez capability than PBs. Also WSs get Psi Resistance and can still use their forms after hitting their lvl 38 defense.
PBs Tank well, Blast ok, Heal and Control a little.
WSs Blast well, Control ok, Tank ok, and have very damaging pets.
Seems pretty balanced to me.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
Yeah, a WS can't heal your team. That is true. Doesn't the WS blasts slow mobs? I though slow mobs meant damage mitigation. You know, because they can't hit as often. Eh, I guess that's just my take on it.
Knockback is certainly control oriented, though far from ideal. It is best used when a team is being overwhelmed and need some sort of damage mitigation, and usually when there are no other trollers on the team. Heaven forbid such an event from occurring.
Knockback can be an excellent control mechanism if the PB using it actually moves its butt and bothers to find the best place to KB the mobs into, otherwise... it can be terrible! 
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Gravitic Emanation on a warshade is golden. If you have the resources warshade is probably the best and most versatile thing to make. Having 3 pets out at once is absolutely nasty too.
True, but I usually use GE for its Disorient more than its KB.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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I have been wanting to reply to this post for a long time but couldn't from EU side so am very happy with the merger |
Originally Posted by DiscoKat
A PB can control with knockback, act as a pseudo defender with glowing touch, scrap with melee attacks & blast with range. If you include the three forms then you add tanking & more blasting. Much more versatile than a WS. WS has some variety but lacks the all around punch of versatility that the PB can bring.
Still great for teams but just not as versatile. A WS can't fill as many roles as a PB on a team. |
Anyway I disagree seriously with your take on PB's being more versatile than Warshades, not once have I been in a situation and thought "Yay a PB" (Actually the complete opposite mostly) but I have been grateful for Warshades many times.
Firstly knockback is the worst type of control possible, yes it is total control because things can't fight back but it completely destroys the average kill speed of a good team having to adjust position and targets to see where things have ended up. And as a PB you would be doing the team a much bigger favour just killing stuff. Oh also Gravatic Emination + Inky Aspect from a Warshade totally locks down whole spawns permanently, in a much more useful way than anything a PB can do.
Secondly counting Glowing Touch as a power which gives good utility is laughable. Yes you have a heal but you are never going to keep anyone alive if they were in serious danger, and even if you do it would probably be more use to use that time causing damage and just rez your team mate after the mob is cleared. Putting slots and time into a power which is of so minimal use means there is going to be a more useful power being underslotted.
Scrapping with melee attacks is a valid point as something you can do, but regardless of where you are the; damage form for Kheldians is Nova, so if you want to count damage as a skill you should be slotting Nova not scrapping (And I do not understand why no PB's get this).
The only thing I would be tempted to grant you is that White Dwarf is a better tank than Black Dwarf, but with the new Black Dwarf Mire I would even contest that.
Anyway that wasn't a dig at you DiscoKat, I just don't like to see people being mislead.
Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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Actually, I would indeed argue that PBs provide more utility to a team, for all the reasons previously mentioned.|
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
I have been wanting to reply to this post for a long time but couldn't from EU side so am very happy with the merger
Anyway I disagree seriously with your take on PB's being more versatile than Warshades, not once have I been in a situation and thought "Yay a PB" (Actually the complete opposite mostly) but I have been grateful for Warshades many times. Firstly knockback is the worst type of control possible, yes it is total control because things can't fight back but it completely destroys the average kill speed of a good team having to adjust position and targets to see where things have ended up. And as a PB you would be doing the team a much bigger favour just killing stuff. Oh also Gravatic Emination + Inky Aspect from a Warshade totally locks down whole spawns permanently, in a much more useful way than anything a PB can do. Secondly counting Glowing Touch as a power which gives good utility is laughable. Yes you have a heal but you are never going to keep anyone alive if they were in serious danger, and even if you do it would probably be more use to use that time causing damage and just rez your team mate after the mob is cleared. Putting slots and time into a power which is of so minimal use means there is going to be a more useful power being underslotted. Scrapping with melee attacks is a valid point as something you can do, but regardless of where you are the; damage form for Kheldians is Nova, so if you want to count damage as a skill you should be slotting Nova not scrapping (And I do not understand why no PB's get this). The only thing I would be tempted to grant you is that White Dwarf is a better tank than Black Dwarf, but with the new Black Dwarf Mire I would even contest that. Anyway that wasn't a dig at you DiscoKat, I just don't like to see people being mislead. |
But you do make one very good point: in quite a number of situations, utility doesn't trump pure damage output. Sometimes, utility can be a lifesaver. At those times, someone might go, "wow, that PB does bring a lot of cool things to a team." Most of the time, though, a well-played Warshade is just such an engine of destruction that utility falls by the wayside.
Ultimately, I think it comes down to the make up of a team and their mindset. Both Kheldians can adapt to all sorts of teams, but I generally find PBs are easier to play when stuck in a particular role (main tanking or support especially) and Warshades are simply dominant when the team doesn't require anything but for you to contribute (because boy, can you contribute!).
In short: PBs are better for "filling a specific role that is lacking on a team," and Warshades are better when no specific roles need to be filled and they can do whatever the heck they want.
As for solo, I think PBs have the edge for single tough targets due to their more self-contained survivability, and ability to hit more often and, with Achilles Heel proc, debuff resistance, while Warshades are simply superior minion munchers.
During 2XP weekend, I got on my Lv50 TriFormPB and headed to the AE Center in AP. I joined some AE farming teams, purposefully preferring teams with as many low level characters as possible.
As expected, we ran all Lv50+ Boss missions, but as we played, I noticed how wonderfully efficient everything went along if everyone just followed my PB into battle. She kept everyone safe by basically not letting any enemy hit any team-member other than herself.
As soon as I noticed any of the other players using AoE Fear or Disorient powers, I'd join with my own powers so the Fear/Disorient effects would stack (yes, my PB has 3 powers from the Presence Pool) and switch to Nova to help with better damage than my Dwarf can dish out.
My PB was all over the place, herding mobs and even packing two spawns together for easier AoE controlling powers, when we had Controllers, and blasting stuff to bits when possible. It actually was a lot of fun, and hopefully, people enjoyed my playstyle as well as I did.
I didn't heal my teammates or control (unless you consider KB a measure of control) the enemies, but it was evidently clear that without my PB there, things would not go as smoothly (even when we had high-level Tanks who actually were not "raised" in the AE Incubator). You may attribute all this to me being a smart player, with a solid build etc, but the fact is that if my character was anything other than a PB, I doubt I could have done with it everything that I did.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
I play a triform PB and a human form WS...
Both in team and solo are quite fun and very interesting.. As far as solo vs group..
Both are good either way
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I would have to strongly disagree with this. I have a purple'd out human-only form PB and a purple'd out human-only form WS, and I've gotta say that the WS wins the damage output contest hands-down, no questions about it. That, and it's a hell of a lot more fun to play (which is sad, since the PB is my "signature" character "AlienOne").|
Originally Posted by Neutrino_Siphon
[ QUOTE ]
Teamwise, I find PBs to be more versatile, while WSs are more damage oriented. [/ QUOTE ] This is correct and incorrect. Speaking in Human-Form terms, PBs are more damage oriented while WSs are more control/debuff/messing-with-the-bodies oriented. Solo, PBs are scrappy and somewhat easy to solo. WSs are a little tougher if you dont know what you're doing. Luckily I came from a Kin/Rad Def to a WS, so it was a little easier of a transition for me. All of which is IMHO, of course. |
"The One"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
I'm sad to report that last night, I had to have a discussion with a 45 months Vet (at least the Badges said so) over what a PB brings to a team.
He was adamant in his opinion that a PB is mediocre in everything compared against the original AT it parallels and even a TriFormPB played by the most awesome Kheldian player would not contribute to a team as much as a dedicated AT character would.
I reminded him that if you're looking for a dedicated AT to fill a specific role, you probably don't want to invite a Jack of All Trades, no matter how good the player behind the keyboard is, and the discussion went south from there.
Warshades can at least say that their role is DPS, and they perform it in any way they see fit, but considering how superior a Warshade is at DPS compared to a PB and how its easier for a WS to control its KB in comparison to a PB, I doubt I could consider straight-DPS a PB's role.
I therefore think that a PB's team-role is protection. Protection of the team, sort of like a Tank/Defender, but in a very different way than either original AT would perform it.
It's possible that the exact problem originated in the fact that the individual I was having this discussion with, was a Tanker. 
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
[quote A WS can't fill as many roles as a PB on a team.
[/ QUOTE ]
This. PB's are better at tanking, have a minor heal, and are good at blasting. WS, IMO, are just there to do damage.