Who were some of the original designers?
By
BackAlleyBrawler,
Posted on: 2009-07-10 12:06 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
My point was that they did everything wrong. Horribly wrong. At least if you consider right being what you engage on doing. Almost every goal they set to themselves was missed.
CoH was aiming to be a typical MMO with tanker/healor/damage/mez pattern.
By random cosmic comedy we ended up with something entirely different, a solo friendly game. This being because the devs overshoot instead of undershoot on every goal. Things were nerfed eventually, but the goal changed based on the new direction the game went for, out of pure accident.
So, things did go "darn well", but they (thanks the lord) went horribly wrong if you remember what they were originally aiming for.
That was why I used that confusion emoticon, because most goals were missed but still things ended up fun. Things didn't go well, but they went darn well to the point of destroying an obsolete design without having to ask for permission.
[ QUOTE ]
My point was that they did everything wrong. Horribly wrong. At least if you consider right being what you engage on doing. Almost every goal they set to themselves was missed.
CoH was aiming to be a typical MMO with tanker/healor/damage/mez pattern.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hrm. Game was fun... who cares?
Game IS fun... so, I don't see any issues, honestly.
Me, I can do without the holy trinity/class system, but I found CoH's version to be palatable.
Honestly, I only left this game for one reason: they took out the 5th Column. At the time, my cousin (who was also a beta'r, although, he was an open betar) mentioned he'd like to get his Jedi in a different game. So, since my "glue" wasn't here, I went over to help him... but I never forgot how much fun I had in the beta or early release.
Whatever else you think of the early devs/game, it still hearkens and shows the roots in the game that is here now... and it is darn good fun both blue and red side.
Explorer: 93%. Achiever: 40%. Socializer: 40%. Killer 33%.
Current Heroes and Villains (altitis holding at 50 currents)
To all the devs, past, present, (and may there be) future: /salute
To NCSoft: Understand that you reap what you plant, and you cannot gain what you throw away.
I remember it was Statesman & Hero1 who came up with most of the game's story bible. Dakan was just senior designer.
I think Dakan posted under the screename "Gaffer" but i'm not sure. It's been 8 years after all.
[ QUOTE ]
I remember it was Statesman & Hero1 who came up with most of the game's story bible. Dakan was just senior designer.
[/ QUOTE ]
As stated earlier in the thread, Rick Dakan came up with the idea for City of Heroes, wrote (according to various interviews) the bulk of the game's backstory, and was Lead Designer until late 2002 (and look how long Melissa Bianco, aka War Witch has been with the game!). Hero 1 wasn't hired until Issue 9 or 10-- he's the current steward of the "story bible", but he didn't come up with most of it. We have no idea how much Jack Emmert contributed to it, the only other person I've seen mentioned as having anything to do with it is Sean "Manticore" Fish (who I'd guess is likely second to Dakan in contribution, though it would be awesome to have a dev clear this stuff up).
[ QUOTE ]
I think Dakan posted under the screename "Gaffer" but i'm not sure. It's been 8 years after all.
[/ QUOTE ]
As stated earlier in the thread, that was Jeremy Gaffney, the NCSoft executive producer for CoH (quoted as such here in a Ctrl+Alt+Del blog post-- second on the page).
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After seeing this quote from Back Alley Brawler it made me think:
[ QUOTE ]
The infamous knockout blow animation wasn't even something that I animated, so I have no attachment to it and don't feel any need to defend it's quality. I happen to like it, I know plenty of others do as well, and I know a great deal of people who don't.
[/ QUOTE ]
So if I recall correctly:
Geko = Original powers guy before Castle, or did Castle exist with him back then too?
Statesman = Original lead designer, passed mantle to Positron.
Original powers animator guy = ???
Gilgamesh = ??? Was he just NC Soft or a designer?
[/ QUOTE ]
You also have
Lord Recluse = David "Zeb" Cooke who was lead designer for City of Villains when it was released. He's also the guy who designed Dungeons and Dragons 2nd Edition.
Captain Mako = "Savage" Shane Hensley who was the lead writer for CoV. He's also the guy in charge of Pinnacle Entertainment Group (aka Great White Games) which released such infamous PnP titles as Deadlands and Savage Worlds. He's allegedly working on a Deadlands MMO as studio head of "Superstition Studios". This is part of the financially turbulent Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment group of studios, which if it has the luck of previous attempts to bring Deadlands to the electronic age will die on the vine but not before threatening to actually launch and be really cool.
[/ QUOTE ]
Another Deadlands connection is this book I found a little while ago.
Deadlands Back East
[/ QUOTE ]
That's the same Deadlands connection, it's a supplement for the tabletop PnP RPG I mentioned. That's one of about 25 Deadlands books NOT counting the HoE or d20 materials. There's probably over 50 deadlands PnP books or products in existence although most are out of print. You can still buy PDFs of most of them at peginc.com however. There's also a few still in the distribution chain so sometimes you can get lucky at game stores.
[ QUOTE ]
NC Soft better have some saboteurs over at Cheyenne Mountain because a Deadlands MMO is the only thing that will ever compete with CoH for me.
[/ QUOTE ]
From the sound of it, Cheyenne is pretty much out of cash right now and is looking for new investors to get Stargate Worlds out the door. The most recent update on the situation by the dev team amounted to "well the lights are still on".
So, the curse of Deadlands continues. First, the game goes out of print, then the promised Reloaded books for the Savage Worlds version were alot slower to come out than promised (and we still only have one of the three plot point books), then the FPS game dies on the vine when the development company goes out of business, now the MMO developer working on it is teetering on going under.
It's cursed I tell ya! Cursed!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
|
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After seeing this quote from Back Alley Brawler it made me think:
[ QUOTE ]
The infamous knockout blow animation wasn't even something that I animated, so I have no attachment to it and don't feel any need to defend it's quality. I happen to like it, I know plenty of others do as well, and I know a great deal of people who don't.
[/ QUOTE ]
So if I recall correctly:
Geko = Original powers guy before Castle, or did Castle exist with him back then too?
Statesman = Original lead designer, passed mantle to Positron.
Original powers animator guy = ???
Gilgamesh = ??? Was he just NC Soft or a designer?
[/ QUOTE ]
You also have
Lord Recluse = David "Zeb" Cooke who was lead designer for City of Villains when it was released. He's also the guy who designed Dungeons and Dragons 2nd Edition.
Captain Mako = "Savage" Shane Hensley who was the lead writer for CoV. He's also the guy in charge of Pinnacle Entertainment Group (aka Great White Games) which released such infamous PnP titles as Deadlands and Savage Worlds. He's allegedly working on a Deadlands MMO as studio head of "Superstition Studios". This is part of the financially turbulent Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment group of studios, which if it has the luck of previous attempts to bring Deadlands to the electronic age will die on the vine but not before threatening to actually launch and be really cool.
[/ QUOTE ]
Another Deadlands connection is this book I found a little while ago.
Deadlands Back East
[/ QUOTE ]
That's the same Deadlands connection, it's a supplement for the tabletop PnP RPG I mentioned.
[/ QUOTE ]
Did you see who wrote that book though?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I remember it was Statesman & Hero1 who came up with most of the game's story bible. Dakan was just senior designer.
[/ QUOTE ]
As stated earlier in the thread, Rick Dakan came up with the idea for City of Heroes, wrote (according to various interviews) the bulk of the game's backstory, and was Lead Designer until late 2002 (and look how long Melissa Bianco, aka War Witch has been with the game!). Hero 1 wasn't hired until Issue 9 or 10-- he's the current steward of the "story bible", but he didn't come up with most of it. We have no idea how much Jack Emmert contributed to it, the only other person I've seen mentioned as having anything to do with it is Sean "Manticore" Fish (who I'd guess is likely second to Dakan in contribution, though it would be awesome to have a dev clear this stuff up).
[ QUOTE ]
I think Dakan posted under the screename "Gaffer" but i'm not sure. It's been 8 years after all.
[/ QUOTE ]
As stated earlier in the thread, that was Jeremy Gaffney, the NCSoft executive producer for CoH (quoted as such here in a Ctrl+Alt+Del blog post-- second on the page).
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmm I remember there being a Hero1 dev on the boards in 2001.
That guy that wrote the original comic books with War Witch and Apex was the guy who wrote the legendary 600-page Story Bible before he got asked to leave Cryptic. Rick Dackarn, or Dackan, or something like that I think. I think that's why some of this old story and descriptions and motivations were a lot stronger. It came out of one guy who knew what he wrote--Reichsman going against story lore was just not really looking over what was written about him before writing the arc.
I'm not sure if that makes me believe in this mythical document more or less. If it IS that long I can see why you wouldn't have the time to go reading through a long, rambling account many points of which may have been changed, never implemented (there were a few factions on the old CoH site that never appeared in the game. Might've been renamed...I figured the Freakshow were the Killing Krew [or something like that]), things that have been retconned out or rewritten (SPIDER into Arachnos, Column into Council...i'm SURE they changed more than just that).
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I remember it was Statesman & Hero1 who came up with most of the game's story bible. Dakan was just senior designer.
[/ QUOTE ]
As stated earlier in the thread, Rick Dakan came up with the idea for City of Heroes, wrote (according to various interviews) the bulk of the game's backstory, and was Lead Designer until late 2002 (and look how long Melissa Bianco, aka War Witch has been with the game!). Hero 1 wasn't hired until Issue 9 or 10-- he's the current steward of the "story bible", but he didn't come up with most of it. We have no idea how much Jack Emmert contributed to it, the only other person I've seen mentioned as having anything to do with it is Sean "Manticore" Fish (who I'd guess is likely second to Dakan in contribution, though it would be awesome to have a dev clear this stuff up).
[ QUOTE ]
I think Dakan posted under the screename "Gaffer" but i'm not sure. It's been 8 years after all.
[/ QUOTE ]
As stated earlier in the thread, that was Jeremy Gaffney, the NCSoft executive producer for CoH (quoted as such here in a Ctrl+Alt+Del blog post-- second on the page).
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmm I remember there being a Hero1 dev on the boards in 2001.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe that was what Rick was posting under back then. On the archived staff pages, there is no "writer" position, and Rick and Jack are the only people listed as designers until the staff listing was removed in 2003, so if someone named Hero1 back in 2001 claimed to be involved in writing the backstory, and nobody knows what Rick's board name was, it would be logical to assume that Hero1 may have been Rick. I don't think anyone's remembered/figured out what Rick's board name was back then, if he posted on the forums at all.
Here's a forum thread from 2006 where someone seems to think Rick's forum name was Hero1:
[ QUOTE ]
Wasn't Rick Dakan's name on the original forums Hero1? So I'd assume while he'd have a say in Statesman, his hero was more Hero1. Jack was already on the team at that time, I think he just got bumped up to Lead Designer, which meant he could then change whatever he wanted about Statesman.
But that still doesn't change the complete origin flip that was 'Unlocked his inner will' and 'Drank from the fountain of Zeus,' it just explains the original magical artifact origin being changed.
[/ QUOTE ]
And hey, I remember that original origin for Statesman!
Oh, as for Rick's writing the Story Bible, here you go, straight from Jack's mouth in August of 2004:
[ QUOTE ]
Who wrote the storylines that run through Paragon City? Was it a collaborative effort?
Rick Dakan penned much of the initial fiction of the City. Its our talented writing team thats brought it to life. Sean Fish, Matt Miller, Jane Kalmes and Brian Gilmore have set a new standard, I think, in the quality of quests for MMPs. Many players view our storylines as much of a rewards as any XP!
[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds to me like Rick wrote the majority of what would be considered the Story Bible, and the others used that fiction to write the actual missions. Note that Jack does not take any credit for writing.
Edit: Also, note that he gives Rick no credit for "bringing it to life" during his time as a contractor-- Rick claims to have written 400,000 words of background material and NPC dialogue in 2003 after being fired and re-hired as a contractor, which sounds to me like he was involved in mission writing. But maybe they threw his dialogue out.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
I have to agree with Rick that the idea of a second city filled with villains is silly. Especially when it has so little effect on the hero side as to be just a segregated section of the game with different archetypes.
I imagined it would be something more like mission architect with a player controlled villain as the boss. Or a way you can do crimes on one side and have heroes stop those crimes on the other. Or a Make your own Nemesis kind of system ala Champions Online.
when it came out calling itself City of Villains? I was like "huh? how did that obviously bad decision get made? They seemed so smartish about that kind of thing before."
When those kinds of choices get made, I always expect it has to do with some inner company flux political changing of powers thing.
To those interested parties: I talked to Positron at the Comic Con, and he said Rick Dakan wrote about 80% of the story bible.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
[ QUOTE ]
I still have one, level eight or so, that I haven't touched since then. 1835ish days since I last loaded her...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think we've forgotten how broken the powers system was at launch.....
[/ QUOTE ]
Not me.
The first character I ever made was an MA/SR scrapper.
>:E
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
I still have mine too, although I log him in for event badges. =)
I do have a fire tank on that server who hasn't logged in since about a month after I started playing. I should see how many days he's up to...
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone