I put a vote in for my FM/SR. :-)
I'm fine with that, or with Rieze's request for BS/WP earlier in the thread, or with Morbid Star's request to duplicate Shred Monkey's build 
. Those seem to be the three serious suggestions on the table.
Hmmm, if I have to vote, I think duplicating Shred Monkey's build would be the most interesting. I'm guessing that we could knock out one of the other two more quickly, though.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
My suggestion:
Claws/FA (Because I have only seen 3 or 4 of that kind so far and their builds were all horrible)
Restriction:
Limited Budget (250 Mio Inf)
Goal:
A build that does not suck => Maximum HP + Defence for increased survivability
Here's my DB/SR attempt :
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1,401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dual Blades
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Medicine
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Power Slice -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(40), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def(7), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(9), LkGmblr-Rchg+(9), RedFtn-EndRdx(39), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 2: Ablating Strike -- Hectmb-Dam%(A), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(3), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(5), Achilles-ResDeb%(7)
Level 4: Focused Senses -- RedFtn-Def(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(11), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(11), RedFtn-EndRdx(43), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 6: Agile -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(15), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(15)
Level 8: Blinding Feint -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(34), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 10: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 14: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 16: Dodge -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(17), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(17)
Level 18: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(19), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(19), Mrcl-Rcvry+(21), Mrcl-Heal(21), RgnTis-Regen+(23)
Level 20: Quickness -- Run-I(A)
Level 22: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(23), P'Shift-EndMod(25), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(25)
Level 24: Boxing -- Amaze-Stun(A), Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(37), Amaze-Stun/Rchg(37), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(39), Amaze-Acc/Rchg(39)
Level 26: Sweeping Strike -- Armgdn-Dam%(A), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Armgdn-Dmg(27), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(29), Empty(31)
Level 28: Lucky -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(31), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(33)
Level 30: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Empty(31)
Level 32: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(33), DefBuff-I(33)
Level 35: Evasion -- RedFtn-Def(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(36), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(36), RedFtn-EndRdx(43), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 38: Stimulant -- IntRdx-I(A)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 44: Focused Accuracy -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(45), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(45), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(45), GSFC-Build%(46), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Aid Self -- IntRdx-I(A), IntRdx-I(48), Numna-Heal(48), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(48), Numna-Heal/Rchg(50)
Level 49: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-ResKB(50), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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PVP +3 def IO in Tough, PVP -res IO in Sweeping Strike.
[ QUOTE ]
requirements...
1. must be soft cap'd def to all posistions (and highest DDR of which, current MIDs isn't very accurate in)
[/ QUOTE ]
Got it.
[ QUOTE ]
2. must have highest possible ST DPS attack chain ((BF>AS>SS>AS ... repeat, i think is what it is, though i'm not exactly sure it's the best or feaseable, need a'bit of input on this)(with 95% tohit +4's in each attack of the chain, easyer to do if #4 can run full time))
[/ QUOTE ]
The build can run BF AS SS AS with a 0.16s gap. I haven't bothered to check, but I think the tohit should be fine (kismet + FA + BF x2 + at least 120% acc enhancement in each attack between enhancements and set bonuses).
[ QUOTE ]
3. must have Aid Self
4. must incorperate a full set of GSF-C in a toggle
5. must(?) have perma-hasten (this i belive is required for the highest dps chain, if not than can exclude)
6. must include -res proc(s) (there's a PvP IO type as'well i belive)
7. needs to be endurance efficient for long fights
8. travel power is optional (but is nice for BotZ's though not opposed to the BotZ in elude)
9. kismet unique would be nice in auto or toggle (as long as it does not hinder DDR)
[/ QUOTE ]
All good.
[ QUOTE ]
10. unlimited budget
[/ QUOTE ]
Definitely !
[ QUOTE ]
11. does Not need to be exemp friendly
12. does Not need to be PvP friendly
[/ QUOTE ]
Definitely not !
I'd like to throw a DM/WP build into consideration with the following restrictions.
1. Any IO sets but purples acceptable.
2. As long as no purples are used, any budget is acceptable.
3. Sustainable endurance useage.
4. Highest realistically attainable typed defenses possible without making major sacrifices in damage.
5. Seamless ST attack chain with decent damage.
6. Includes Superspeed.
I'd love any ideas for a Fire/Dark (I am actually considering this for a Brute, but I figure close enough). I have modest goals (I think):
- I would like to get as close to softcap defenses as I can (either all Types or Positions, whichever is easier).
- Although I don't have any money restrictions, I will probably not use Purples.
- This will be for PvE, and I don't really care about soloing AV's or perfect attack chains, and things like that, but I don't want to sacrifice much damage.
- I want to not be sucking End during each fight.
Perhaps since noone is voting, and more suggestions keep coming in, it would be fair to simply go in order of what was suggested first to most recent. This way, noone gets left out and if the suggestion is easy it can be resolved quickly, allowing for the more difficult ones to be reached.
At first, accuracy didn't look like it was quite there. Sweeping Strike, for instance, shows up at 85% against +4s. But that's assuming you haven't already connected with Blinding Feint. And Blinding Feint itself has over 95% without needing to stack. Also, that's with Focused Accuracy off. If you're fighting tough targets, toggle it on for a bit until your Blinding Feint stacks, then toggle it back off. So I'd say you're there.
Oh, and yes, BF>AS>SS>AS is the best DPS chain. I might argue for BF>SS>AS instead, as it does do better AoE damage and does pull ahead when speed boosted, but it's enough behind the other on single target DPS that I won't push for it when that's the criteria.
Is endurance consumption sustainable? It looks kind of ugly on the surface, but I assume what's going on is that having Conserve Power up over half the time pulls us out of the hole. I can check it if necessary, but I assume you already have.
If there's any problem, I see some easy tweaks. You could replace the recharge in Practiced Brawler with an endurance reducer. Not much benefit to double stacking it. You could replace the defense IO in Weave with a +3 Enzyme. Actually, I'd do that anyway since it's better defense, not worse. You could drop one of the interrupt reducers from Aid Self and put a +3 Ribosome in Tough. I might do that anyway, since it's only increases the interrupt window by 0.16 seconds, you don't get hit much through soft-capped defenses, and a few more points of resistance are nice. Speaking of resistance, it might be nice to fit in the PvP +resistance unique, but I don't know where you'd get the slot. Hmmm, well, if it had sustainable endurance before, it has more than sustainable endurance now, so maybe we could pull a slot out of Stamina and use it for the unique.
Anyway, it's down to tweaks based on your final goals.
I thought it would be tougher than that. Nice job, Nihilii. 
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps since noone is voting, and more suggestions keep coming in, it would be fair to simply go in order of what was suggested first to most recent. This way, noone gets left out and if the suggestion is easy it can be resolved quickly, allowing for the more difficult ones to be reached.
[/ QUOTE ]
I second this motion.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
[ QUOTE ]
Is endurance consumption sustainable? It looks kind of ugly on the surface, but I assume what's going on is that having Conserve Power up over half the time pulls us out of the hole. I can check it if necessary, but I assume you already have.
[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't check it. As I used a very similar build (in terms of recharge, endurance reduction and recovery numbers) for a few weeks on my DB/Inv, I assume it'd work here too. I remember it was very close at times, if the perf shifter didn't proc enough it could get ugly, so it might be worth checking it just to be sure...
The chain uses 22.75 end in 5.596 seconds (4.06eps) and, using your tweaks, net recovery with all toggles except Focused Accuracy is at 2.63 end per second. With 110 max end, that gives us 76.9 seconds before running out of end (without considering the perf shifter proc), and CP has a 74 seconds downtime. It's tight, but it should work as long as there's no end drains thrown your way.
Another option would be to change a red fortune set in either Focused Senses or Evasion with a GotA set (more max end) and the Shield Wall unique, losing only 0.2s on AS.
Well time for me to ask for a build to see what the experts come up with:
FM/Invul
1 - Any budget but no purples (Abs. Amazements are okay for boxing)
2 - must have aid self
3 - softcapped to SLEN with 1 foe in range of invince, if possible high FC defense too.
4 - enough recharge for an attack chain to be able to solo AVs and if possible perma dull pain.
Thanks in advance.
it seems fairly feasible, and as werner said, "tweakable",
wondering where exactly the 0.16s gap is, and if it's coverable,
also would like to run the GSF-C set toggle permanently, as the proc spikes the damage output in AV fights and such with'out the pause of haveing to pop BU or insp or such in while trying to run an attack chain, not that it's all that disconcerting in a chain, but i perticularly find that set's with'out a BU (as in a click self dam/acc buff) find it alot more desireable in a toggle, plus the fun surprise when you 1shot something just out of nowhere is way too fun,
also as the kismet you mention but i dont see, not that it was a requirement, but if it were to replace something in there what would the DDR effect be, on that note: is there any type of guide that shows the effective enhanceable and non-enhanceable DDR type powers and thier ratios ? , MID's at current doesn't seem to do this very well.
I am requesting an Electric Melee/Shield Defense build for my scrapper >.>
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
I'm almost sure a gapless BF AS SS AS chain isn't possible without external buffs.
As for the GSFC proc, according to Mids (I know, I know... that's bad, but I never bothered to check it exactly) it's a 5% chance of 100% damage buff lasting 5.25 seconds. In a toggle, that means it pulses every 10 seconds, so that's an average 2.625% damage buff. The Gaussian set bonus itself gives you almost as much as that... This build is running around ~280% damage most of the time, making the proc really, really worthless.
(Now if you like it because it's fun, I'm not disputing that ; just pointing out from a number perspective it seems useless, unless Mids numbers or my own calculations are terribly wrong.)
i've found that the proc itself seems to proc alot more often on a 10sec pulse than it does in a click attack chain, it's really an opinion prefferance i guess, and with it being a unique it's the only way to get the 6set bonus as'well, but also that it's less of a time consumer in set's that dont have BU such as DB Claws DM ect... not to mention the 1-5 set bonuses and its enhancement values work better in a toggle, and BF, FU, and SD,... you want some acc and maybe dam in
I'm not saying I'd put it in a click power, I'm saying I wouldn't care where I put it. From a number perspective, it doesn't seem like this proc worth caring about.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying I'd put it in a click power, I'm saying I wouldn't care where I put it. From a number perspective, it doesn't seem like this proc worth caring about.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. While we could run it permanently, we only have a few ways to do it, and all of them suck.
Tactics requires a power pool, and we can't drop the ones we have. Hasten is necessary for the attack chain. Stamina is necessary to power it. Tough and Weave keep the build from being devoted to +defense sets and sacrificing the recharge necessary for the attack chain. Aid Self was given as a requirement of the build.
Focused Accuracy has a huge endurance cost, which would require massive endurance reduction in the attacks, hurting DPS far more than the proc would ever make up.
Targeting Drone is even worse than Focused Accuracy because it also requires that you drop Conserve Power, and you'd never recover from that sort of double punch to your endurance.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying I'd put it in a click power, I'm saying I wouldn't care where I put it. From a number perspective, it doesn't seem like this proc worth caring about.
[/ QUOTE ]
i completely understand where your comeing from in a "number perspective" , but there seems to be a rather more than calculatable discrepancy between therory and practice, ... the RNG is what it is as in Random, though i see it in effect on paper, i dont find it to be the case in practice ... i do belive the RNG is a'bit bias when dealing with a limited scale, perhaps it has to do with the clamps, but it seems to hit the mark more often then theory would show when dealing with either extremes.
OK...here's a build I've been agonizing over trying to get to work.
MA/WP
A AV soloing sustainable attack chain that uses Eagle's Claw.
Softcapped SLEN Defenses
Enough END to sustain attack chain/toggles
Unlimited Budget and any IO sets OK.
Near cap (but doesn't have to be capped) HP.
Flight
This is what I've been agonizing trying to make, might not be possible, or maybe I'm not seeing it.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying I'd put it in a click power, I'm saying I wouldn't care where I put it. From a number perspective, it doesn't seem like this proc worth caring about.
[/ QUOTE ]
i completely understand where your comeing from in a "number perspective" , but there seems to be a rather more than calculatable discrepancy between therory and practice, ... the RNG is what it is as in Random, though i see it in effect on paper, i dont find it to be the case in practice ... i do belive the RNG is a'bit bias when dealing with a limited scale, perhaps it has to do with the clamps, but it seems to hit the mark more often then theory would show when dealing with either extremes.
[/ QUOTE ]
So... you're saying that you think the random number generator is firing so much more often than it should on the proc that it would make up for the big on-paper damage loss required to have the endurance to run Focused Accuracy full time?
OK.
Drop the Achilles' Heel in Ablating Strike and replace it with an endurance reducer. Drop the PvP -resist proc in Sweeping Strike and replace it with an endurance reducer. Drop the Mako's acc/end/rech from Blinding Feint and replace it with an endurance reducer. Hopefully that will give you enough endurance to run Focused Accuracy full time. You'll probably need even further compromises, but maybe that'll be enough.
But really, you've left the realm of the number crunchers at that point.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
This is the best I could do. It falls short on everything, but it's not that far.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1,401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Martial Arts
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Storm Kick -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Empty(7), Mrcl-Rcvry+(40), Mrcl-Heal(42), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(43), Heal-I(43)
Level 2: Mind Over Body -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(15), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(15), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 4: Fast Healing -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(37), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(37), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(37), Numna-Heal/Rchg(40), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 6: Focus Chi -- AdjTgt-Rchg(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(46), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 8: Crane Kick -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Ksmt-ToHit+(50)
Level 12: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(13), Zephyr-Travel(19), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(19), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(25)
Level 14: Fly -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(17)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(43), Numna-Heal/Rchg(45)
Level 18: Crippling Axe Kick -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(21), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(21), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx(25)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(31), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(31), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(34)
Level 22: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 24: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(45), Numna-Heal/Rchg(46), RgnTis-Regen+(46)
Level 26: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(27), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(27), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(31)
Level 28: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(29), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(29)
Level 30: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Eagles Claw -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(33), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(33), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(36), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(36), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 38: Strength of Will -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(39), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(39), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(42), HO:Enzym(42)
Level 44: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 47: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(48), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 49: Tactics -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(50), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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|-------------------------------------------------------------------|</pre><hr />
The attack chain would be SK CK CaK SK EC, possibly with a slight gap.
40.9% S/L and 42.1% E/N with the PVP IO.
2283hp.
End should be fine (net loss while attacking is ~0.1 eps with all toggles active, assuming averaged values at 0.2 eps for each perf shifter proc).
I would like to see a dark meele/shield defense scrapper that has enough AE capability to be a reasonably good farmer. Soft capped defense and sustainable endurance. No limits on any IOs, build me a dream build
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I'm almost sure a gapless BF AS SS AS chain isn't possible without external buffs.
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can anyone confirm or disprove this ?
also, is there any type of guide that shows the effective enhanceable and non-enhanceable DDR type powers and thier ratios ? , MID's at current doesn't seem to do this very well. i try looking through the guides as they are, but after the fifty'ith or so one with no help, maybe someone with better search-fu may have an answer
[ QUOTE ]
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I'm almost sure a gapless BF AS SS AS chain isn't possible without external buffs.
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can anyone confirm or disprove this ?
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Ablating strike (6 sec base recharge) must recharge in less than 1.452sec, which can be done with +314% recharge. I haven't the faintest idea how you'd get that much recharge in Ablating Stike. A little more than 100% in the attack is plausible via aggressive slotting. Quickness offers another 20%; Hasten another 70%. Five LotGs is 37.5%. Five 5% recharge bonuses is easy enough to manage, so there's 25% more, and if you took Weapon Mastery, you could get five 10% bonuses from purple sets (Melee, PBAoE, Ranged, Targeted AoE, and Immob). So that's... 302.5%. Still need 11.5% more recharge... if you took Confront and 6-slotted with Mocking Beratement, that would be another 7.5% (which IIRC doesn't break the Rule of Five with LotG 7.5%s). Need 4% more (sorry, thinking out loud). Kismet has 3.75% but that's not -quite- enough... or is it? I think 313.25% is actually enough, and we now have 313.75%
I think it actually CAN be done, but the build would be like clown shoes. Funny, but not very practical.
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It looks like the FM/Shields build debate is dead. I think it got concluded between what Rankin and Werner both did by the looks of things.
Next?
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Suggestions phase, go! Let's get some suggestions going on! I want something truly thought provoking, capable of making me spend a few hours crunching numbers before my D&D game tomorrow!