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If the buff/debuff scalar was consistent and equal to the corr damage scalar, this would be true. However end up with half of entire sets being filled with powers that have the same numbers for both corrs and defenders.
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Agreed. My point was that, even if we ignore all of that, Corruptors still have a numerical advantage -- namely, Scourge.
Of course it's not that simple, but it seems fair to say that the minutiae tend to favor Corruptors, maybe not in every single case, but most of the time.
Either way, there will always be people who roll this or that AT, even if that AT is totally outclassed by another. Given that Defenders are perceived to fill that classic RPG/MMO role of support -- and perceived to fill it moreso than any other -- Defenders are unlikely ever to drop below a certain threshold of popularity, no matter what ATs compete with them on paper.
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no, it's more of the fact it would be too much work to make support powers consistent when going from primary to secondary like damage and self protection sets do. just like how it would be too much work to make rain powers not use blaster damage.
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We can speculate all day long about why or why not there'll be buffs to the archetype, what form those buffs would/could/should take, but it seems safe to say that Defenders are in a bit of a box right now, because of their relationship with Corruptors/Controllers/Blasters, and because of the stupidly high effectiveness of (de)buff-heavy teams, regardless of their constituent archetypes.
Whatever you think the devs' motivations are, the bottom line is that any wholesale buff to Defenders would be extremely difficult to balance. Making numbers more consistent would only be a prelude to a more comprehensive set of changes; it would make the subsequent job a little easier, but it wouldn't accomplish a whole hell of a lot in and of itself.
Afterwards, you might be able to say that Defenders are a little better balanced with Corruptors (sans Scourge), but you won't have answered the complaints of those who feel that Defenders don't do enough damage, or those who feel that Controllers are still better overall support characters; in fact, if anything, most likely you'll have nerfed the living crap out of the two Defender blast sets which do deliver decent levels of damage. Oh, and for good measure, you'll likely have nerfed the snot out of Corruptor rain powers, too.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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in fact, if anything, most likely you'll have nerfed the living crap out of the two Defender blast sets which do deliver decent levels of damage. Oh, and for good measure, you'll likely have nerfed the snot out of Corruptor rain powers, too.
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I would trade lower -Res values on defender Sonic blast and reduced damage on rains (for both corr and defenders) for higher defender base damage all around any day.
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All the ATs were designed for team play. The difference is that only Defenders are hamstrung in solo play. Tankers inherent is team only too, yet they have ample defense and damage.
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This is not true. Or at least not true in any meaningful way. I can just as easily say that all the ATs were designed for solo play and be just as correct. Especially since the base standard for soloing is the ability to solo on Heroic. The far better indicator is the powers themselves. Unlike tanks many of the defender primary powers are ally only.
On the flip side of the argument all defender teams are generally considered steam rolling juggernauts. Almost nothing slows them down and damage output is a distinct non-issue. Defenders excel in team environments more then any other AT.
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in fact, if anything, most likely you'll have nerfed the living crap out of the two Defender blast sets which do deliver decent levels of damage. Oh, and for good measure, you'll likely have nerfed the snot out of Corruptor rain powers, too.
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I would trade lower -Res values on defender Sonic blast and reduced damage on rains (for both corr and defenders) for higher defender base damage all around any day.
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Therein lies the problem. If you raise Defender base damage by any appreciable amount, then you have to do something for Corruptors too.
It's not a step that will be taken lightly.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Therein lies the problem. If you raise Defender base damage by any appreciable amount, then you have to do something for Corruptors too.
It's not a step that will be taken lightly.
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Unless someone can come up with a better reason then has been expressed in this thread it won't happen at all. Turning defenders into corrupter clones isn't going to make much headway with the devs.
As far as I can tell the general abilities and balance of corrupters are exactly what the people who are calling for more defender damage want. Actually thats not quite true. I get the impression that what people want is the same base damage as corrupters without any loss of buff strength and that certainly isn't going to happen.
If you don't like playing villans then simply wait for "Going Rogue" and that problem is solved. If you don't have all the same powersets then campaign for more proliferation.
Pushing to turn defenders into blue colored corrupters isn't going to work.
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Therein lies the problem. If you raise Defender base damage by any appreciable amount, then you have to do something for Corruptors too.
It's not a step that will be taken lightly.
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Unless someone can come up with a better reason then has been expressed in this thread it won't happen at all. Turning defenders into corrupter clones isn't going to make much headway with the devs.
As far as I can tell the general abilities and balance of corrupters are exactly what the people who are calling for more defender damage want. Actually thats not quite true. I get the impression that what people want is the same base damage as corrupters without any loss of buff strength and that certainly isn't going to happen.
If you don't like playing villans then simply wait for "Going Rogue" and that problem is solved. If you don't have all the same powersets then campaign for more proliferation.
Pushing to turn defenders into blue colored corrupters isn't going to work.
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For me it is more of a Controller vs Defender issue not a Corrupter vs Defender issue. I don't play redside really to care much for Corrupters. All I know is that Defenders should do far more damage then Controllers since they "waste" a whole powerset on it.
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in fact, if anything, most likely you'll have nerfed the living crap out of the two Defender blast sets which do deliver decent levels of damage. Oh, and for good measure, you'll likely have nerfed the snot out of Corruptor rain powers, too.
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I would trade lower -Res values on defender Sonic blast and reduced damage on rains (for both corr and defenders) for higher defender base damage all around any day.
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Therein lies the problem. If you raise Defender base damage by any appreciable amount, then you have to do something for Corruptors too.
It's not a step that will be taken lightly.
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let's see here, with the most consistent set being rad/rad for both defender and corruptor at the moment. It makes a good example for damage scaling (assuming they adjust the gross omissions in support increases in other Defender primaries eventually).
with defender/corruptor getting .25/.20 +dmg and .30/.225 -res damage bonuses against a 5000 hp target, it will take 86/82 attacks of X-Ray Beam (without scourge factored in yet) to kill the foe. that's a 4.3% damage advantage for corruptors before factoring in the 17.52% final damage increase over time that scourge will provide to that. The average overall support advantage for Rad for defenders is 20.35%. In order to reach a balance here the defender base damage would need to be increased by 0.9% to balance the support and damage shift. That would leave the defender at an avg 20% support advantage over the corruptor and the corruptor at an avg 20% damage advantage over the defender.
It's then just a case of tweaking the other sets to be balanced by increasing/lowering +dmg/-res power to narrow the damage gap while increasing/lowering defensive buffs/debuffs to meet an equillibrium with the scourge advantage. Below is an example of how I would change sonic resonance for defenders to balance it with corruptors and the 0.9% defender base damage increase.
Defender
Sonic Siphon = 0.30
Sonic Barrier = 0.20
Sonic Haven = 0.20
Sonic Cage v 5.96 -> 4.99 (or just ignore)
Disruption Field ^ 0.30 -> 0.345
Sonic Dispersion = 0.15
Sonic Repulsion v 6.23 -> 4.99 (or just ignore)
Clarity = 13
Liquefy = 0.357
avg support advantage = 19.33% over corruptor
Corruptor
Sonic Siphon = 0.225
Sonic Barrier = 0.15
Sonic Haven = 0.15
Sonic Cage = 4.99
Disruption Field ^ 0.225 -> 0.245
Sonic Dispersion ^ 0.113 -> 0.12
Sonic Repulsion = 4.99
Clarity = 10.4
Liquefy = 0.25
avg damage advantage (with scourge) = 19.38% over defender
So how will you balance blasters into this now that you increased defender base damage by around 38% and corrupter damage by around 26%?
I noticed the "balancing" example you used with Sonic Resonance only reduces the capabilities of the two less popular powers. For that matter you actually increased the strength of Sonic Disruption. O_o
For me this fails the "laugh-out-loud" test. It all buff and no downside. A huge buff at that. Defenders are already very powerful in teams this is an increase to both their solo ability *and* teaming ability. Even more so for corrupters.
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So how will you balance blasters into this now that you increased defender base damage by around 38% and corrupter damage by around 26%?
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Wrong, defender base is only increased by 0.9% in my calculations and corruptor base is completely left alone. Blaster damage remains unrivaled here and defenders will still do less than corruptors in damage.
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I noticed the "balancing" example you used with Sonic Resonance only reduces the capabilities of the two less popular powers. For that matter you actually increased the strength of Sonic Disruption. O_o
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Sonic Cage and Sonic Repulsion's increases really have no significant advantage over the corruptor version in actual use, not the case with clarity and the rest of the powers. Sonic Disruption requires a teammate to even be able to use and applies it's benefit to the entire team not just the defender/corruptor, it also makes up for the shortcomings of the Sonic Resonance set (overuse of ally dependent powers and specializing in -Res but not being the best at it).
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For me this fails the "laugh-out-loud" test. It all buff and no downside. A huge buff at that. Defenders are already very powerful in teams this is an increase to both their solo ability *and* teaming ability. Even more so for corrupters.
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You seem to be lost. Corruptor and Defender solo damage isn't increased by buffing Disruption and only Defenders gain a base damage increase here and only by 0.9%. Also a +4.5%/+2% tweak upward on Disruption field isn't game-breaking in the slightest, if you really think so then perhaps you should be complaining about Freezing rain that does -35% and can double stack itself easily currently.
Numbers make my head hurt. 
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Numbers make my head hurt.
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Well FF is the only set that is completely unworkable in cross AT balance of this nature in it's current state unless you dramatically shift the damage components of Force Bolt and Repulsion Bomb in weird ways for defenders. Personally I would add a lingering -Res component to repulsion bombin addition to it's current effects, probably about -20% to -25% off the top of my head. Thematically one could say you cracked their armor with the impact or something.
I can barely contain my glee with the sonic primary
Unless I'm misunderstanding the intent of corrupters vs defenders, corrupters in CoV are suppose to fill similar roles to blasters. The buff set secondary is to help them do so. Thus why corrupters are a 'high' damage archetype. As a fight wears on corrupters start doing double damage. They will always out damage defenders by a large margine overall, and that is intended.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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Anyone who has played both a defender and a corruptor to 50 knows that defender damage is completely out of whack and the support number advantage they supposed to have is utter garbage. You don't need to crunch numbers to know this, it's obvious from playing both ATs. Of course, you've admitted to having not actually played a corruptor to 50, so as I said before you really don't have a leg to stand on here. Defenders aren't "fine as is", they need to be tuned to have better base damage and the support numbers need to be more consistent, no more of this bullcrap with over half of entire sets like Kinetics have identical numbers on defenders, controllers, and corruptors.
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As someone who has played several Corruptors and Defenders to 50, the only "utter garbage" I see is the assessment above of the relative support capabilities.
So you've been throwing out numbers for an indivual Defenders vs one Corrupter and their relative damage output. What you fail to account for is that Defenders are intended to excel on teams and do just that, in a manner Corrupters are unable to.
Let's say there's a 7-member team that cranks out 1000 DPS. The 7 and 1000 are chosen arbitrarily and only used as a convenience instead of a variable "k". Further, let's just say the Defender does 100 DPS and the Corr does a corresponding 100 * (75/.65) * (1 + .1752 (your Scourge number that I'll trust w/o verification)) = 136 DPS. I'll also assume the team is fighting even cons. Let's make things simple by saying 1/2 of the damage is base and 1/2 is from enhancements (rather than .95 from enh).
Add a Rad defender to that team and their team DPS becomes
(500+ 50) * (1 + 1 (enh) + .25 (DMG boost from AM)) * (1 + .3 (RES debuff from EF)) = 1609
Add a Rad Corr and their team DPS becomes
(500 + 68) * (1 + 1 (enh) + .2 (DMG boost from AM)) * (1 + .225 (RES debuff from EF)) = 1531
Including Assault widens the gap.
On top of that, by fully enhancing RI for -ToHit, before adjusting for rank, the defender has enemy to-hit floored. With the corr debuff enhanced to .3875, a team takes almost double the damage. Increasing rank and level does lessen this disparity.
Lastly, the Defender heals for more and debuffs recharge and damage better than the corr as well. I'm having serious trouble finding why a team would choose a Rad Corruptor over a Rad Defender.
Before you question my bona fides, I have a 50 fire/rad corr, a 45 rad/rad def, 50 fire/rad cont and 50 ill/rad cont, and currently working on a 35 Sonic/Rad corr, so I've played a little of the rad flavors.
Of course, Rad is just one case. The other common sets are Cold, Dark, Kin, Sonic, Storm. I'm not going to crunch numbers right now. Kin is the only set that may not have an apparent advantage to a team from a Defender over a corr.
The question for Going Rogue isn't "will corrs replace defenders?" it's "will trollers make corrs irrelevant?" Same support numbers, but control and containment damage as well.
Edited to fix a math mechanics error that changed the values, but not the conclusions
I notice no one has commented on or number crunched my idea about altering Vigilance to make powers use less endurance the less endurance you have...
Ok...Maybe I *am* lost. Though I would counter that with the way your throwing out numbers seems almost deliberately confusing. Including switching your example model from rad to sonic in the middle.
My understanding of the various damage levels is this.
Base line damage modifier is 1.0 for a specific damaging power.
Defenders damage modifier for base damage on a specific damage power is .65
Corruptors are .75.
Blasters (I think) are 1.25.
So if the base damage for a power is 10 hp then a defender with that power would do 6.5 a corrupter would do 7.5 and a blaster would do 12.5.
You start by saying.
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with defender/corruptor getting .25/.20 +dmg and .30/.225 -res damage bonuses
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Now what do you precisely mean by this? Do you mean you moved the defender base modifier up to .9 and the corrupter up to .95? That certainly seemed to be what you meant. If it was then thats a *large* jump in damage.
An increase in the defender base damage of 9% would be .65 * 1.09 = .7085 or 70.85%. Is this what you meant?
Also since this is all about *soloing* ability why are you touching the team based powers at all?
Also an increase to 34.5% -Res is an increase of 15% in the power. (.345 / .3 = 1.15) Though again this is a team based power so why would you be modifying it at all if this is about soloing ability?
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What you fail to account for is that Defenders are intended to excel on teams and do just that, in a manner Corrupters are unable to.
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I don't think this is a failure to take the team based abilities of defenders into account. More like outright ignoring the vary clear design of defenders as a team oriented AT who are comparatively weak soloers by intention. The devs definition of "acceptable" is if an AT can solo standard missions on Heroic difficulty. By this standard defenders are just fine.
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with defender/corruptor getting .25/.20 +dmg and .30/.225 -res damage bonuses
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Now what do you precisely mean by this? Do you mean you moved the defender base modifier up to .9 and the corrupter up to .95? That certainly seemed to be what you meant. If it was then thats a *large* jump in damage.
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Those are the bumps in damage the ATs can achieve through readily available +damage self/ally buffs or -DR foe debuffs. Note that +damage buffs are additive with enhancements and ignore foe level, while foe DR debuffs are multiplicative and degraded against over-level foes.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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By this standard defenders are just fine.
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Just throwing this out there:
(De)buff sets haven't been given the mathematical once-over since release, making them one of the /very/ few groups of powers that haven't been rebalanced in relation to each other since release. And, while (de)buff sets in general work well, there are some sets that really could do with tweaking.
Again, just throwing it out there.
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By this standard defenders are just fine.
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Just throwing this out there:
(De)buff sets haven't been given the mathematical once-over since release, making them one of the /very/ few groups of powers that haven't been rebalanced in relation to each other since release. And, while (de)buff sets in general work well, there are some sets that really could do with tweaking.
Again, just throwing it out there.
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Exactly. Radiation Emition is about the only support set that is pretty well balanced going back and forth between ATs and remain consistent like all the damage and self-protection sets do when they get proliferated. The rest of support sets have powers that are either way off in value (EX: Liquefy and Fulcrum Shift), have their numerical advantage made meaningless (EX: Knockback and controls) and/or completely identical on both ATs (EX: Sleet, Speed Boost, and Siphon Speed).
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Base line damage modifier is 1.0 for a specific damaging power.
Defenders damage modifier for base damage on a specific damage power is .65
Corruptors are .75.
Blasters (I think) are 1.25.
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blaster damage modifier is 1.125. I'm just proposing raising the defender modifier to 0.656, which is about a 0.9% increase not a 9% like you keep misreading. that might seem small and minor to you but with damage buffs and -res debuffs that small shift varies things quite a bit.
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So if the base damage for a power is 10 hp then a defender with that power would do 6.5 a corrupter would do 7.5 and a blaster would do 12.5.
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This is wrong. To get base damage you find the power's damage scalar, the AT's damage modifier, and the level modifier and multiply them together.
For instance, X-ray beam on a lvl 50 corruptor would have these values:
DS = 1
ATmod = 0.75
LVLmod = 55.6102
Base damage = DS * ATmod * LVLmod = 1 * 0.75 * 55.6102 = 41.70765
If you wanted to find defender base damage for the same power just switch the ATmod out for 0.65, like so:
BASE damage = 1 * 0.65 * 55.6102 = 36.14663
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Now what do you precisely mean by this? Do you mean you moved the defender base modifier up to .9 and the corrupter up to .95? That certainly seemed to be what you meant. If it was then thats a *large* jump in damage.
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what you quoted was referring to the damage buff values from Accelerated Mutation and the -resist debuff values from enervating field. Damage buffs are done first and applied directly from base damage just like enhancements. -Resist debuff increases however effect the final damage, meaning they have to be calculated last.
Here are the basic formulas:
Buffed Damage = BASE damage * [ 1 + ( Dmg buff + Dmg enhancement ) ]
Final Damage = Buffed Damage * [ 1 - ( Purple Patch * Res Debuff ) ]
When scourge crits, it will immediately hit for the same Final Damage as the attack that proced it, basically doing double final damage. 17.52% is the overall damage increase that scourge does over time no matter the situation, this was found by creating a large table that measured the number of attacks required to kill a foe with X life using Y damage before scourge is taken into account. Then I did a separate table that was identical until it hit 50% and increased the damage by 2.5% for every 1% below 50% of X life until it caps at 100% dmg buff at 10% or less life at which it remains 100% dmg buff til 0% life. Both tables shoot out the final number of attacks required and you simply do [ 1 - ( ScourgeTotalAttacks / StandardTotalAttacks ) ] to get 0.1752, which is always independent from the amount of life, the damage buffs, the -res debuffs, and the base damage of the attack.
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Also since this is all about *soloing* ability why are you touching the team based powers at all?
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It's not about solo ability here, it's about balancing the defender average support numbers in a support set to be be about X% greater than the average corruptor support numbers. Also to maintain a X% avg damage advantage for corruptor over defenders.
Using the sonic example from earlier, we want defenders to have 19.35% avg. increase in their Sonic primary over a corruptor's sonic secondary. On the reverse side though, Corruptors would maintain a 19.35% avg increase in their damage over what defenders do individually with their attacks combined with their -res/+dmg powers while in a team.
First of all Turbo, you don't have to get that complicated to find the base values. Seriously. Just go into character creation and look at the real numbers there for powers. It will tell you the base damage for any given level with a power. I used electric blast as an example, and compared level 50 damage. Just for kicks since I already compared damage between that set for defenders and corrupters, I'm going to check it's damage potential related to blasters, corrupters, and defenders.
Corrupter's Thunderous Blast
41.71 smashing damage on target
83.42 energy damage on target
75.00%% chance for 41.71 energy damage on target
50.00%% chance for 41.71 energy damage on target
41.71 energy damage on target 2.5% chance per every
percentage point targets health is below 50%
So a potential max damage upon use of 250.26 damage
Defender Thunderous Blast
36.15 smashing damage on target
72.29 energy damage on target
75.00%% chance for 36.15 energy damage on target
50.00%% chance for 36.15 energy damage on target
Maximum possible damage of 180.74
Blaster thunderous blast
62.56 smashing damage on target
125.12 energy damage on target
75.00%% chance for 62.56 energy damage on target
50.00%% chance for 62.56 energy damage on target
maximum potential damage is 312.8
Keep in mind that this is without buffs, debuffs, or slotting. With rad emmision (which you admit is balanced across the AT's) the numbers would look like this for potential max damage without outside buffs/debuffs coming into play:
Corrupter 360.3744 (this assumes the enemy has no resistance to smashing or energy so gets the full 20% resistance debuff, and assumes AM is applied for the +20% damage buff
Defender 293.7025 (this is assuming the enemy has no resistance to smashing or energy damage so the full 30% resistance debuff applies, and also assuming AM for the +25% damage)
Blaster 312.8
I find this interesting. This implies that a defender can potentially do nearly blaster levels of damage, so the claims that they don't do enough damage are proven bunk. It also shows that corrupters, a 'high damage' archetype actually can do that high damage. In fact, they can do better damage then blasters. Which is even more interesting considering they are designed to be a damage dealer, yet people assume their just reversed primary/secondary defenders. This shows a fundamental design difference. It also shows why devs consider defenders the most balanced archetype.
In regards to the OP, defender damage only 'sucks' if you don't slot for damage.
Edit to expand:
Turbo, I do see where you are trying to come from, but I think your wrong.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
First you're wrong on the max potential on corruptor base damage for thunderous blast. It's 208.54 not 250.26.
Secondly, you're not calculating the damage all the way through. You're also forgetting the blaster damage buff from defiance which is about 40% of a buff on average.
Corr buffed dmg = 208.54 * ( 1 + .95 + .2 ) = 448.361
Def buffed dmg = 180.73 * ( 1 + .95 + .25 ) = 397.606
blaster buffed dmg = 312.81 * ( 1 + .95 + .4 ) = 735.1035
then we apply -res debuffs and scourge
Corr res = 448.361 * ( 1 + .225 ) = 549.242225
Corr scourge = 549.242225 * ( 1 + .1752 ) = 645.4694628
Def res = 397.606 * ( 1 + .3 ) = 516.8878
final damage
Corruptor = 645.47
Defender = 516.89
Blaster = 735.10
Defenders come no where close to blaster damage here.
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First you're wrong on the max potential on corruptor base damage for thunderous blast. It's 208.54 not 250.26.
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I got those numbers by copy/pasting strait from the game, so are you saying the game is lying about the numbers? Let's do some basic math. Shall we?
41.71 smashing+83.42 energy=125.13 damage every time you use the attack. You will agree this is proper math right? Because if not, then your saying that the six calculators I used to recheck it are lying.
Then there is a high chance (at 50) for 41.71 energy damage. 41.71+125.13=166.84
Next there is a fifty/fifty chance for 41.71 damage. 166.84+41.71=208.55 damage.
But that's not 'best case' is it? Then there's scourge. So for maximum possible damage with a corrupter you must include scourge damage too, right? That's another 41.71 damage. So 208.55+41.71 is what? That's right, 250.26 damage best case (scourge goes off, both damage chances go off). So in a complete vacuum it does 250.26 damage maximum.
Now since this is a corrupter and we're assuming a rad/electric defender, a electric/rad corrupter, and a electric/* blaster let's include the damage boosts rad can get reliably solo. That's +20% damage from AM and a -20% resistance debuff. Note I am not including enhancements. That's because we have no way of knowing if the person chose to slot for damage, accuacy, recharge, or what. Maybe they underslotted damage to get more end drain? We don't know.
For best case situation this corrupter already just did 250.26 damage unenhanced, but with AM it would be 300.312 damage total. Assuming no resistances of course. This damage is then modified by the enemy's resistance (or lack there of). Since they presumably had no resistance to start, let's give the full corrupter resistance debuff of 20%.
The math so far would be as follows:
(41.71+83.42)+(41.71+41.71+41.71)*1.2=X
X*1.2=Y
Y=360.3744
For a defender the math is less complicated because they don't have scourge damage added in. neither do blasters.
Speaking of blasters, maybe I should have included Aim in my calculations. I didn't though. If I did, I'd have to use it in my calculations for all 3 archetypes. By omitting Aim I removed one variable to reduce math clutter.. Nor did I include the buff from Defiance since there's no way of knowing which attacks were used before casting Thunderous Blast. If it's the alpha strike (which nukes I've noticed usually are) then there is no defiance buff most likely.
Please note this is also excluding things like +damage powers cast by allies and red inspirations.
But don't let me stop you from forgetting to include Scourge in 'maximum possible damage' calculations. Also don't let me stop you from double checking math too. I know a 0.01 difference isn't much, but in math even a small discrepancy can in the long run foul you up. That's why I quadruple checked my math each time, and triple checked I was putting the correct values in to begin with.
By the way, enhanced with ED levels of damage enhancing, the maximum possible damage for a corrupter's thunderous blast is 488.007, and with the buff from AM raises it to 585.6084. Still higher with -resist powers active. Don't look now Turbo, but your math for 'maximum damage' that a hypothetical corrupter could deal with the power is too low.
For a defender who slotted for 95% damage with enhancements they do 422.9316 at their peak with AM.
But of course if this is an alpha strike, the corrupter doesn't get scourge damage do they? This means base damage+enhancement bonus+AM bonus. That comes out to 488.007 damage for the corrupter before resistance debuffs are factored in. 66 damage isn't that large of a margin.
Factoring in Aim alters things even more. Defenders remember get higher damage buff values from powers then blasters or corrupters. So adding Aim in will close the gap a bit.
Remember, because defenders get the highest values for most buffs and debuffs, using those damage buffs and resistance debuffs can easily close the gap in damage. This is why TA came with the -res values for Acid Arrow and Disruption Arrow reduced to 20% each for defenders. When they were 30% each it was too powerful due to them being stackable without slotting.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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If we assume that Corruptors' damage scalar advantage is cancelled out by Defenders' buff/debuff scalar advantage, then we're left with one inescapable conclusion:
Scourge > Vigilance
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If the buff/debuff scalar was consistent and equal to the corr damage scalar, this would be true. However end up with half of entire sets being filled with powers that have the same numbers for both corrs and defenders. Then on the opposite end, you have a wildly unbalanced sonic blast for defenders because the debuffs are so high and Ice storm and blizzard using blaster damage values, making overpowered amongst the rest of the defender blasts by comparison. Which is the major difference between defenders and controllers/corruptors, Defender numbers are an absolute random mess of numbers where as controller/corruptors have values are much more consistent and well balanced.
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And because the devs are leery of the balance implications of stacked buff/debuff teams, we'll probably never see a significant buff to Defenders as a whole AT.
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no, it's more of the fact it would be too much work to make support powers consistent when going from primary to secondary like damage and self protection sets do. just like how it would be too much work to make rain powers not use blaster damage.