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Saving myself undue hassle and debate is my responsibility.
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Quoted for irony. 
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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You keep saying that like you think it will magically turn out to be true. Anyhow, I'm tired of you trying to justify your cowardice. Feel free to keep talking but I don't see any reason to listen.
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There's no cowardice about it. It's about hassle. If I send you a comment then I might get hassled by you. I don't know you. I don't want to get hassled. I just want to have fun playing the game. I don't want the person that I send a comment to to send me 15 angry responses back. I don't want them to come rate-grief my arc.
BTW, when I rated your arc earlier today and sent you my comments you were much more courteous than you've been in this thread. Given what I've seen in this thread I'm surprised that you didn't try to rip my head off when I gave your arc MacGuffin Delivery Service #1567 only 4 stars.
I gave it 4 stars because I honestly don't feel that it deserved 5 stars. I also gave you some feedback, because I wanted to, and NOT because you deserved it. Make no mistake, those stars are there so I can help other players decide if they want to run your arc. The feedback option is there in case I feel like sending you feedback. And even if I only give you 1 star you do not deserve any feedback from me or anyone else. You deserve nothing from me. You get feedback if I feel like sending it. I owe you nothing, period.
It's not my job to help you fix your story-arc, that's your job. It's not my job to help you get into the Hall of Fame, that's your job. It doesn't matter if I give you 3 stars or 2 stars or even 1 star. No matter how many stars I do or do not give you, I owe you nothing.
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They don't exist to justify a rating or explain why the rating was less than perfect. The player has no need to justify or explain the rating, and therefore ratings of three stars without comments are perfectly valid.
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Deliberately avoiding what I said about 1- or 2-star ratings being "low", but okay.
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Fine. 1- or 2-star ratings without comments are also valid. I used 3-star specifically because I told Lazarus, "By my rubric, I may have 3-starred your arc, and I make no apology." And Lazarus replied, approximately, "That's OK as long as you explain yourself."
Either way, a rating of 2 stars is as valid as a rating of 5, with or without commentary, and as long as the ratings aren't given maliciously, they aren't griefing. Lazarus has opted to defend the position that they are, simply because they don't provide the author with a solution.
Frankly, the only reason that you and I are going back and forth is because you presumed to step in and reply to one of my posts. The basis for my viewpoint has been disagreement with this notion that droppng from five to four stars overnight implies griefing, and the idea that a three-star rating given without comment constitutes some form of griefing.
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I see now that you're generally about playing rhetorical games, which is fine - just own up to it.
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On the contrary, I've made considerable effort to remain clear and be straightforward.
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And my point was simply that ratings without comments aren't constructive.
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To rehash just a little more, I agree that ratings without comments aren't constructive criticism; however they are still valid ratings, and serve a purpose within the larger playerbase.
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If you don't care about anyone else improving what they do, by all means, rate and move on.
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From declining to leave a comment to accompany a rating, it simply doesn't follow that I don't care about anyone else improving what they do. In point of fact, I help people improve themselves in a variety of ways every day, whether I include a comment when rating a particular MA arc or not.
It does follow, however, that I don't care enough about that specific arc to open myself to possible harassment, griefing and pointless debate. That's logically implicit.
But you choose to generalize that reticence to imply that I'm not a helpful or considerate person, in order to indict my personality on general terms through logical fallacy.
It is you who are playing rhetorical games.
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Your solution of just not providing feedback on things that are questionable is one way of dealing with that. The educator in me prefers to see people able to learn and improve, so I tend to take the other approach when I can. Different strokes, etc.
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While I'd like to be helpful to authors whose story arcs could be significantly improved with simple corrections, the history of this forum suggests to me that it's better just to rate the arc and move on in most cases. For example: let's say a story arc is full of text like this:
"I need you, and, um, whomever is with you, to, er, to go to the alternate dimension and determine, if you can, a way of stopping all the munchkins, I don't care how, you'll think of something, and if possible, bring back the red, green, and blue rolls of cellophane that were taken from the warehouse."
Now, I'm pretty sure that the text is a run-on sentence and would read better this way:
"I need you and your team to get over to the alternate dimension and find a way to stop those munchkins. You'll think of something. And try to find those three rolls of cellophane that were taken from the warehouse."
Or, if that doesn't sound in character for the contact, then at the very least:
"I need you and um, whomever is with you, to, er, to go to the alternate dimension and determine, if you can, a way of stopping all the munchkins. I don't care how. You'll think of something. And if possible, bring back the red, green, and blue rolls of cellophane that were taken from the warehouse."
...because at least this way, it isn't a run-on sentence. It reads better with periods separating the major ideas.
But heaven forbid I should comment that there are "too many commas" in the text. We've seen how that's worked out for others in the past. It hasn't gone to the betterment of story arcs everywhere, to say the least.
qr
I think some people are thinking of ratings as being like "grades" given for papers. Getting a low grade from a teacher without accompanying feedback or reasoning doesn't accomplish the goals of the teaching environment, and is frustrating to encounter as a student.
But these ratings aren't like that. Their primary purpose isn't to benefit the author; their primary purpose is to benefit other players. If, while giving a rating, a player wants to leave comments for an author, only then are they assuming a task in any way analogous to that of a teacher (though it's really peer review) - up to that point, IMHO there is no reviewer relationship between player and author, only between player and general audience.
And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines
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so it doesn't make sense to you that I don't believe anything is perfect?
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It doesn't make sense that you insist on equating the maximum possible rating with perfection when you know no one can attain it. Essentially, you're throwing away an entire category by rounding off differently from most other people. You're really using a 4-point scale, and since most others are using a 5-point scale, the averaging function is getting thrown off.
Some posters are ignoring a important difference between this medium and others when concerning the rating/feedback system. Unlike a movie, a novel, or an album, a story arc can easily be changed after it's been released. These aren't set in stone once they are released, with the exception of the Dev Choice arcs any arc can be edited almost instantly in response to feedback. Helping the author does make things better for the audience that comes after you, and for you as well if you choose to replay the story arc.
Yes there are those who think that their work is perfect and don't listen but those tend to be the exception rather than the rule. And so what if someone gets mad from negative feedback and starts harassing you? Ignore exists for a reason and it's not like nobody has ever been banned for harassment either.
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Unlike a movie, a novel, or an album, a story arc can easily be changed after it's been released.
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Except for different releases, in theatres and home video, of Star Wars.
Oh...EASILY changed...OK, though I guess it counts as somewhat easier if you own ILM ;-)
My scrapper doesn't need an AoE. She IS an AoE.
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Yes there are those who think that their work is perfect and don't listen but those tend to be the exception rather than the rule. And so what if someone gets mad from negative feedback and starts harassing you? Ignore exists for a reason and it's not like nobody has ever been banned for harassment either.
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Except then that person can now grief your arcs because they know who you are.
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I never rated any story with a 5. I never give the perfect score to anyone. If i am impressed, i give a 4 at most. Most of the time i vote a 3 on everything. Really bad missions get a 2. I never gave a 1 yet.
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This is just you assuming that 5 = perfection. It's just 5 out of 5. That may not make much sense but I assumed getting the blessings of "Dev's Choice" and other such accolades would be necessary for it to be closer to "perfection." Just because you got the highest score possible does not mean it's "perfection" unless the scoring system actually accounts for that. Or is a "thumbsup" from Roger Ebert "Perfection?"
so it doesn't make sense to you that I don't believe anything is perfect?
If I can find arcs worthy of five stars, so can you.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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so it doesn't make sense to you that I don't believe anything is perfect?
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No, it does not make sense. I'll explain why.
If by definition nothing is perfect, then by definition a 5 star rating does not mean perfect. The rating system has 5 stars, each of which represents 20% of the maximum possible rating. If you rate a story-arc with 5 stars it means that the story-arc is in the top 20% of story-arcs in the Mission Architect in your opinion. That's all that it means. 5 stars does not mean it is perfect.
If you're refusing to give 5 stars to any story-arc then you either do not understand what a 5 star system is supposed to be OR you are intentionally griefing others by refusing to give 5 stars to the story-arcs that deserve to have 5 stars. In other words: if you're playing MA story-arcs and intentionally refusing to give any of them 5-stars, then are either an idiot or you are griefing.
So which one is it?
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In other words: if you're playing MA story-arcs and intentionally refusing to give any of them 5-stars, then are either an idiot or you are griefing.
So which one is it?
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Oh, come on now, don't be silly.
They could very well be both.
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so it doesn't make sense to you that I don't believe anything is perfect?
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No, it does not make sense. I'll explain why.
If by definition nothing is perfect, then by definition a 5 star rating does not mean perfect. The rating system has 5 stars, each of which represents 20% of the maximum possible rating. If you rate a story-arc with 5 stars it means that the story-arc is in the top 20% of story-arcs in the Mission Architect in your opinion. That's all that it means. 5 stars does not mean it is perfect.
If you're refusing to give 5 stars to any story-arc then you either do not understand what a 5 star system is supposed to be OR you are intentionally griefing others by refusing to give 5 stars to the story-arcs that deserve to have 5 stars. In other words: if you're playing MA story-arcs and intentionally refusing to give any of them 5-stars, then are either an idiot or you are griefing.
So which one is it?
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YOU do not decide for me what is worth 5 stars or not. I will not give 5 stars to something because all players before me decided to do so. I do not give a damn about what other players thinked about a story and how they rated it. I never give a 5 and i never give a 1. It really is that simple. Most of the time i rate everything with a 3 because almost every arcs i played were not that much impressive or that much bad.
And now if someday devs or gms were to ever accuse me of griefing then ill reply to them that maybe they should rate the content for me if they do not want me to rate it the way i want.
That is all.
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
I take this thread as yet more evidence that the rating system was a big mistake. 
The Cape Radio: You're not super until you put on the Cape!
DJ Enigma's Puzzle Factory: Co* Parody Commercials
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YOU do not decide for me what is worth 5 stars or not. I will not give 5 stars to something because all players before me decided to do so. I do not give a damn about what other players thinked about a story and how they rated it. I never give a 5 and i never give a 1. It really is that simple. Most of the time i rate everything with a 3 because almost every arcs i played were not that much impressive or that much bad.
And now if someday devs or gms were to ever accuse me of griefing then ill reply to them that maybe they should rate the content for me if they do not want me to rate it the way i want.
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Well, golly, why don't you just start giving good arcs ONE star and bad arcs FIVE stars? You're not going to let the DEVS tell you the way you're supposed to rate missions, are you?
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I take this thread as yet more evidence that the rating system was a big mistake.
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Because a thumbs-up/thumbs-down rating system just wasn't good enough.
QR
Weatherby_Goode - "Heck, Carrion Creepers negates the knockdown from Carrion Creepers."
Most of the MArc's I've played,(of the ones not my own), I rated 5 Stars because I felt they deserved it. There was one MArc, the one titled"Too Many Bunnygirls" I only played partway through, because I thought that the character I used could Solo it. She couldn't, so I only played it partway through, but I still gave it a 5 Star Rating because I thought it was worth it. A couple had problems, which I always give in Feedback at the end of the mission, so they could improve them. I gave those missions with the problems in them either 3 or 4 Stars.
Try my 3 MArcs: I.D.#67166:Protect the Artifacts!! I.D.#97724:Level-Up Time. I.D.#243803:Witch War! Salem vs. Croatoa!
First of all the post that you're responding to was directed to Mr_DJ, not to you. Just so you know, I wasn't accusing YOU of anything.
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YOU do not decide for me what is worth 5 stars or not.
[/ QUOTE ]I don't think that anyone here ever said that they do get to decide for you, I know that I certainly did not. If you read my post you will notice that I specifically said; "...in your opinion." Do you understand what the words "in your opinion" mean? I'll give you a hint, they do not mean "I get to decide for you."
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I will not give 5 stars to something because all players before me decided to do so. I do not give a damn about what other players thinked about a story and how they rated it.
[/ QUOTE ]Also I never said that you have to rate an arc with 5 stars just because others have done so. Make no mistake, if 5,238,066 people give an arc 5 stars and you give it a 1 that is not griefing if you honestly didn't like that story-arc. But if you refuse to ever ever ever ever give any story-arc 5 stars then you either do not understand how the rating system works or you are griefing.
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I never give a 5 and i never give a 1.
[/ QUOTE ]Here's the question then: If you played a story-arc and you honestly thought that it was the best story-arc that you've ever played in City of Heroes, would you give it 5 stars?
I never give a 5 and i never give a 1. It really is that simple.
No, it isn't. If I adopted that policy no one would bother reading my reviews, and they would be right to do so. Your standards are unreasonable.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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so it doesn't make sense to you that I don't believe anything is perfect?
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No, it does not make sense. I'll explain why.
If by definition nothing is perfect, then by definition a 5 star rating does not mean perfect.
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To relate our rating system to school rating systems, there are teachers that refuse to give students A's ... I even vaguely remember someone suing a teacher because they refused to give A's ... A does not mean perfect, it means excellent. Think of 5 stars the same way.
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The rating system has 5 stars, each of which represents 20% of the maximum possible rating. If you rate a story-arc with 5 stars it means that the story-arc is in the top 20% of story-arcs in the Mission Architect in your opinion. That's all that it means. 5 stars does not mean it is perfect.
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To expand what you have said, 5 stars means Excellent .. which is an A ...The problem with our rating system is ... 5 starts is an A, 4 stars is a B, 3 stars is a ... D .... and there's a 20 point spread between an A, and a B ... It's kind of like those pop quizzes you got in school which consited of 5 questions. You get 2 wrong, and your screwed. There needs to be more stars ... At least 10 ...
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In other words: if you're playing MA story-arcs and intentionally refusing to give any of them 5-stars, then are either an idiot or you are griefing
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Saying that nothing is perfect is a common philisophical debate. Yes, I can see his point, and to some degree I agree that nothing can be perfect. Giving 5 stars means they get 100% ... should you give 100% if you find something wrong with it you don't like or should you give them 95%? Except that the next step on the scale is 80%. I read someones respons to one of the OP's arcs, and they said that there wasn't enough color in the arc descriptions when the contact was talking. I think there shouldn't be any color at all. One of us isn't going to give him 5 stars. You can't appeal to everyone, and the people you don't appeal to are going to 1-4 star your arc.
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I do not give a damn about what other players thinked about a story and how they rated it. I never give a 5 and i never give a 1. It really is that simple.
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Now I'm confused. I distinctly recall you once saying you would only give stories ratings of 5 or 1, based only on whether they had bad or good average ratings already and not on their contents at all. When did that change?
Wow, this thing blew up quicker than I expected.
"If I had Force powers, vacuum or not my cape/clothes/hair would always be blowing in the Dramatic Wind." - Tenzhi
Characters
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First of all the post that you're responding to was directed to Mr_DJ, not to you. Just so you know, I wasn't accusing YOU of anything.
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YOU do not decide for me what is worth 5 stars or not.
[/ QUOTE ]I don't think that anyone here ever said that they do get to decide for you, I know that I certainly did not. If you read my post you will notice that I specifically said; "...in your opinion." Do you understand what the words "in your opinion" mean? I'll give you a hint, they do not mean "I get to decide for you."
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I will not give 5 stars to something because all players before me decided to do so. I do not give a damn about what other players thinked about a story and how they rated it.
[/ QUOTE ]Also I never said that you have to rate an arc with 5 stars just because others have done so. Make no mistake, if 5,238,066 people give an arc 5 stars and you give it a 1 that is not griefing if you honestly didn't like that story-arc. But if you refuse to ever ever ever ever give any story-arc 5 stars then you either do not understand how the rating system works or you are griefing.
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I never give a 5 and i never give a 1.
[/ QUOTE ]Here's the question then: If you played a story-arc and you honestly thought that it was the best story-arc that you've ever played in City of Heroes, would you give it 5 stars?
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Yes, i might give it 5 stars if it was the very very very best story ever but to me it is like giving a 10 at the olympic games for gymnastic or artistic skating. It is very unlikely.
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
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I never give a 5 and i never give a 1. It really is that simple.
No, it isn't. If I adopted that policy no one would bother reading my reviews, and they would be right to do so. Your standards are unreasonable.
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Well, i dont play by your rules, thats too bad heh. I am given options to rate stuff as i see fit and that is just what i do. We all have our own criterias.
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
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First of all, I didn't accuse the OP of not being able to take constructive criticism; nor did I conflate ratings without comments with constructive criticism.
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That was certainly how the original text to which I was replying, and which you quoted in my original reply, read - at least to me.
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I merely pointed out that any comments given to accompany a rating, so long as they aren't deliberately insulting or abusive, are constructive criticism, and as such, a service to the author.
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A statement with which I agree. It really wasn't clear from what you originally said, though.
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They don't exist to justify a rating or explain why the rating was less than perfect. The player has no need to justify or explain the rating, and therefore ratings of three stars without comments are perfectly valid.
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Deliberately avoiding what I said about 1- or 2-star ratings being "low", but okay. I see now that you're generally about playing rhetorical games, which is fine - just own up to it.
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Evidently. Again, my point: comments aren't something that you deserve. They aren't needed to explain a rating. If they exist at all, they're merely constructive criticism, provided they're not deliberately insulting or abusive.
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And my point was simply that ratings without comments aren't constructive.
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If there is no feedback other than the raw stars, however, what's there to be thankful for?
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And here's my point again. To be thankful for something, you must realize that it wasn't your due, that you didn't necessarily deserve it, that you recieved something which you rightly might not have recieved.
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You really do like arguing, don't you? I'm not saying anyone is entitled to anything - only that ratings without comments do not constitute "constructive criticism".
The mis-use of that term is a huge annoyance for me. I think we've sufficiently clarified that what I read as your meaning and your intended meaning were not in-line.
I am not suggesting that anyone is entitled to anything. If you don't care about anyone else improving what they do, by all means, rate and move on.
I will also note, at this point, that you are using a version of the rhetorical "you" that I take as general, and not at all an indictment of how I read, write, or play arcs in the game. I did not take anything you said, when using "you," to indicate that you were accusing me of anything. That was the level of discourse I'd thought we were operating on.
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But the OP's statement, "I don't mind being three-starred as long as you explain it," implies that he doesn't see a comment as something to be thankful for, but as something that he deserves as justification for a rating lower than five stars.
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I missed the part where he said he wouldn't be thankful for it.
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And if you don't get any feedback, it's probably because attitudes like those of the OP make giving feedback more hassle than it's typically worth.
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Or it might be that your style of giving feedback elicits attitudes like those of the OP.
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I've given precious little feedback on arcs, mostly limiting myself to positive comments, or to very minor points I felt I could address without a lot of debate, precisely because I don't want to get into the sorts of argument that I've witnessed others wasting their time with in this forum.
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I obviously don't know you (specific) or what you (specific) do with arcs. I was using the rhetorical "you" in the same sense I perceived you (specific) to be using it. I'm not drawing inferences about in-game behavior from forums behavior. If you (specific) meant every "you" to be about me specifically, I'll go ahead and quote the next phrase from your message and say, "Back atcha".
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So your shot in the dark misses its mark
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See above.
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Besides, how is it that my style of criticism could possibly "elicit" an attitude of self-entitlement on the part of an author who feels he deserves something that he doesn't?
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Because a style of criticism that feels like an attack will naturally elicit a defensive reaction. Not "your" style of criticism, mind you. Goodness forbid I say anything about "you".
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If you really do agree with me that non-abusive feedback is something to be thankful for and taken with a grain of salt, I can't understand how you can possibly hold that such behavior on the part of authors is partly the fault of the player who gave the comments.
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Because any interaction requires two people. If there's something in what a reviewer says that makes the author feel a need to lash out, odds are there was a better way to phrase the critique.
Of course, I'm also of the opinion that many MA authors are excessively juvenile, or may have grown up in a world that says "Everyone gets a trophy, nobody gets told they aren't the best," and have no idea how to handle constructive criticism. I've never seen so many people ARGUE with reviews in any other venue.
That being said, there can be no reaction without action, so both parties have to be aware of the situation. Your solution of just not providing feedback on things that are questionable is one way of dealing with that. The educator in me prefers to see people able to learn and improve, so I tend to take the other approach when I can. Different strokes, etc.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.