Tanking Recluse...


Aett_Thorn

 

Posted

So we crazies on the Scrapper boards are planning an all Scrapper STF with no temps (we'll leave em enabled, but we're going to try not to use them if we can finish without them). Infatum is going to be playing main tank for this since he's silly and likes to tease villains about their weight.

I *think* I'm prepared for Ghost Widow, I can cap NE defense with one purple and I have confront to stay at max range while the rest of the team beats her down (I also have a backup "tank" to temporarily take over if things go badly, ie the hold hits).

What I'm not so prepared for is Recluse, I've read the guides, but some of the information is conflicting (Does he spawn banes if you hover tank him without an interrupt toggle on him?). So given that all we scrappers are trained to do is flip out and kill things, I figured I'd ask the experts what I can do to make it through at least the red tower stage in one piece against Recluse. Infatum is a willpower scrapper with a little over 2200 hp, 50ish S/L resists, piddly Energy resist, 40ish S/L defense and 30ish Energy defense. I have Eye of the Magus and SoW as the only click powers of relevance. Any advice that gives me more than a snowball's chance in hell would be very welcome


Infatum on Virtueverse

 

Posted

Might be difficult without a buffer to push you 30% over the soft cap to compensate for the blue tower or not being able to use Parry, might be best to use a soft capped SR. At the very least go Blue then Red tower to get rid of that 30% hit bonus then his damage bonus

Hover and toggle to stop Banes might frustrate him and he might to the rubber band target on the next closest scrapper. Happens when I tank him and he briefly losses sight of me at the pillar flag poles. I have learned never to get the pillar in between us or he may dart to the Emp and one shot her.

For GW you will need some sort of slow toggle and maybe caltrops. Your confront should have a longer range than her hold so if you keep her at max range you should be safe. I know I only ever get hit with it when we turn the kiting corner ( when I slip into her range )

How do you plan to get passed her 10% per person melee range heal? 7 Scrappers in range = 70% heal = very very long fight


 

Posted

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Your confront should have a longer range than her hold so if you keep her at max range you should be safe. I know I only ever get hit with it when we turn the kiting corner ( when I slip into her range )

How do you plan to get passed her 10% per person melee range heal? 7 Scrappers in range = 70% heal = very very long fight

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Unless I'm misunderstanding, his comments about using Confront from range were to keep her from targeting/healing off the rest of the team while he would be outside of her melee heal range.


Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project

 

Posted

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Unless I'm misunderstanding, his comments about using Confront from range were to keep her from targeting/healing off the rest of the team while he would be outside of her melee heal range.

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That's the plan.


Infatum on Virtueverse

 

Posted

honestly, if this were me, I wouldn't 'main tank' Recluse with a Scrapper. I'd take two of the scrappers, and make him bounce his aggro back and forth between you. Use your Tier 9s in sequence, to allow the one with the Tier 9 up to tank him while the other one rests up.

The other 6 Scrappers should be able to bring down the towers pretty quickly.


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

Posted

Just some thoughts....

When we did the all-tank STF, we used the Ring of Pain temp power on Recluse to keep him from spawning Banes. That kept the confrontation less chaotic/easier. You get it on a low level arc, and it last 10 minutes I think.

Your best bet would probably have an IO'd out for defense Invul scrapper with Tough/Weave tank him at close melee range so he only uses his S/L attacks. But WP can do it.

Aid Self for the taunter, and Aid Other for a second scrapper "healer" would help as well.

Inspirations:

Try to keep your Resistance at 75%, and DEF at 70% as long as you can, especially while Blue, and Red towers are up.

That means Oranges, and Purples. A few Greens if you don't have aid self.

SR's would need more oranges, than purples since they have no real resists. Aid Self very important.

WP's, and Invuls would probably need an even amount.

Regens, I'd probably take all purples, and hope I don't get hurt twice in a row before I can heal...

I hope this helps.

-Pep


 

Posted

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Your confront should have a longer range than her hold so if you keep her at max range you should be safe. I know I only ever get hit with it when we turn the kiting corner ( when I slip into her range )

How do you plan to get passed her 10% per person melee range heal? 7 Scrappers in range = 70% heal = very very long fight

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Unless I'm misunderstanding, his comments about using Confront from range were to keep her from targeting/healing off the rest of the team while he would be outside of her melee heal range.

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If we could do this with a team of Tanks, scrappers should be able to kill her even quicker.

I just hope your confront is well slotted with Taunt, and have a Ranged attack to multiply the effect.

Since scrappers don't have gauntlet, the extra damage they do may not make holding aggro from range more difficult with only confront/taunt, but I wouldn't want to risk it.


 

Posted

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When we did the all-tank STF, we used the Ring of Pain temp power on Recluse to keep him from spawning Banes. That kept the confrontation less chaotic/easier. You get it on a low level arc, and it last 10 minutes I think.

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Would Rise to the Challenge work for that purpose? I'm trying to avoid using any temps if possible.


Infatum on Virtueverse

 

Posted

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When we did the all-tank STF, we used the Ring of Pain temp power on Recluse to keep him from spawning Banes. That kept the confrontation less chaotic/easier. You get it on a low level arc, and it last 10 minutes I think.

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Would Rise to the Challenge work for that purpose? I'm trying to avoid using any temps if possible.

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No. It has to be a toggle you put on him like Radiation Infection, Darkest Night, Snow Storm?(whatever the Storm Toggle is), etc.

Your personal defense/offense toggles(Invincible, RttC, Blazing Aura,etc) won't work.


 

Posted

Random and not so random thoughts:

Confront requires a “to-hit check” which will be a factor against +4 Arch-Villains. The purple patch will also shorten the duration of the taunt significantly too, but I don’t remember the scale.

Ghost Widow:
I have no idea how the agro magnitude of confront will compare to any of the scrappers scoring a critical. My guess is that a confront will miss at some point and the scrappers in melee will take some agro at least a few times. You’ll just have to see how well the team can immobilize her.

I would have the entire team use Lucks to softcap their defenses, and possibly use rages to shorten the fight. Softcapping will mitigate most of the effects of both Soul Storm and Dark Regeneration on those occasions that the 'taunting scrapper' loses agro.

Lord Recluse:
Bane spawns can be interrupted by some auras; I believe Mud Pots and Chilling Embrace interrupt, but I’m not positive. For scrappers the aura that might work is Invincibility, maybe. If knockback is an issue, use a pillar or other object so it becomes knockdown and you don’t lose contact with him triggering Bane spawns.

I’m not sure how not having a toggle debuff will affect the math, but ~75% is the threshold to floor his “to hit” while the Red Tower is up. Remember that his attack can debuff both your defense and your mez protection (-3.0 to magnitude of your stun protection if I remember correctly). I don’t remember how much the defense debuff is, but it is significant.

Other notes you probably already know:
The Flier is on a fixed 20 minute timer for respawn regardless of when you defeat a given Flier. The time to mark is the first time a team member zones into the final map.

The repairmen are currently bugged; they are healing the towers as soon as they spawn, before they can be targeted/defeated. It would be best to wait for this bug to be fixed before you attempt your run.

-- I'd go with Pep Rally's note on the auras; I'm not sure other than any aura that requires a "to hit check" won't interrupt his Bane spawn reliably.


 

Posted

Thanks everyone thus far, I really appreciate the advice

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I just hope your confront is well slotted with Taunt, and have a Ranged attack to multiply the effect.

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It is pretty well slotted, is a ranged attack necessary normally?

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Confront requires a “to-hit check” which will be a factor against +4 Arch-Villains. The purple patch will also shorten the duration of the taunt significantly too, but I don’t remember the scale.

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It's autohit, scrappers are actually blessed with pretty darn good taunts in our primaries, but most of us don't ever take them (I have a certain love for taunting people I've crane kicked away, but I'm strange like that )

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I don’t remember how much the defense debuff is, but it is significant.

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Good to know, I may plan for double purples while tanking him and switch off with the other scrapper when I run out.

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The repairmen are currently bugged; they are healing the towers as soon as they spawn, before they can be targeted/defeated. It would be best to wait for this bug to be fixed before you attempt your run.

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Was this introduced with I15? I did a STF shortly before then and didn't have any problems. Even if they can't be targeted is their repair ability interrupted by taunt auras?


Infatum on Virtueverse

 

Posted

I still dont think it can be down with just scrappers, since GW will keep you busy, its a long fight with healers and buff's, so you can imagine. I have no doubt about the crazy DpS that will ensue, but Surviving Recluse alone seems impossible for a Scrap. Though, one big purple insp can take care of the damage he does. On paper it looks fine to me. But with no one to add clear mind's or (add mez prot power here), I don't see you getting passed GW. Her uber hold will get someone, if not all. And her heal will keep you face palming your way into oblivion.

Lastly, if you do manage to get it rolling please do record the session via Gamecam or Fraps.


"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"

"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."

 

Posted

It has been done lacrymosa, by 2 teams in fact. One on champion, and one on another server.

Currently the STF has a bug though, so I would wait till that gets fixed. (The repairmen heal for the towers is unstoppable as of i15 release)


 

Posted

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Thanks everyone thus far, I really appreciate the advice

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I just hope your confront is well slotted with Taunt, and have a Ranged attack to multiply the effect.

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It is pretty well slotted, is a ranged attack necessary normally?


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You'll probably be okay without a ranged attack(I forgot the reason for the ranged attack on our all-tank run was because Tanks have gauntlet)... I would have any scrappers with taunt auras turn them off for the fight, though, since they will have these advantages over you for aggro:

a)being in melee > range
b)doing damage
c)taunt aura is another multiplier for threat

Eliminating C would go a long way to making sure you hold aggro.


BTW, what server are you doing this on?


 

Posted

We were going to do it on Virtue this Sunday, there is a lot of interest in it on the scrapper boards so there's been talk of additional teams. If the repair men are unstoppable at the moment though we'll have to call it off for now, not exactly going to be able to take down recluse with his towers up.


Infatum on Virtueverse

 

Posted

actually I think aett has the best idea, swap 'tanking' scrappers, esp via tier 9's.

you know, when they fix the STF


50 Tanks: Invul/ss, Fire/ice/fire, Ice/em, Stone/fire
WP/Stone, dark/dark, shld/mace

50 Other: WS, SS/dark/sc brute, BS/Regen/WM scrpr, fire/fire/force blaster, rad/kin corr, mind/rad ctrl, ill/storm cntrl

 

Posted

Here's a few random thoughts based on my god knows how many times thru that TF:

1. GW - as a tanker I've found that taunt alone will NOT hold aggro from range, and without a way to immob her you'll have a LOT of trouble keeping her at range. I'd suggest everyone just eat enough purples to stay at the 45% soft cap and pound from melee... her heal has to hit in order to work.

2. LR - Here you'll want to keep your res at the cap and most especially you'll want your def at 75% until the blue tower dies. I'd still take the red tower first; while it's up he can one-shot a tanker... he's hit my Invuln for nearly 3k damage... that was thru 75% resists. Once the red tower dropped I didn't have much problem. Hover tanking turned out to be a mistake; he would hit me with a MASSIVE end drain and I'd fall out of the sky at his feet.

3. The Bane Summon - Invincibility WILL keep him from summoning his little helpers; so will Mud Pots. I haven't tried a WP but I'd guess it might have the same effect. Just remember that you will NOT be able to hit him with any attack until the orange tower drops, his def is cranked clear up to "ludicrous".

I will echo what others have said about the STF as it stands right now, with the broken repairmen since issue 15 you'll probably NOT be able to kill the towers. I'd wait until that lovely bug is fixed before attempting the run. There's not a lot more frustrating than getting to the end of a TF and hitting a brick wall.


COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes

 

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We were going to do it on Virtue this Sunday, there is a lot of interest in it on the scrapper boards so there's been talk of additional teams. If the repair men are unstoppable at the moment though we'll have to call it off for now, not exactly going to be able to take down recluse with his towers up.

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Cool. My scrapper on Virtue just hit 50. I'll keep my eye out for when you guys reschedule. Maybe I can get on one of the other teams.


 

Posted

Little off topic, but what's wrong with the STF right now?


 

Posted

Apparently the Repairmen's repair power isn't interruptible, so if they get in range, it's guaranteed to go off. Sounds almost like a stealth change but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt.


Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~

 

Posted

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1. GW - as a tanker I've found that taunt alone will NOT hold aggro from range, and without a way to immob her you'll have a LOT of trouble keeping her at range. I'd suggest everyone just eat enough purples to stay at the 45% soft cap and pound from melee... her heal has to hit in order to work.

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I have to disagree on the first two parts. I had no problem holding aggro with just Taunt and, as long as I had Sprint on, I could just run in a big circle and she only got in melee heal range of me once because I was a little careless. Immobs make it easier, certainly, but we had none on that team.


Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project

 

Posted

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1. GW - as a tanker I've found that taunt alone will NOT hold aggro from range, and without a way to immob her you'll have a LOT of trouble keeping her at range. I'd suggest everyone just eat enough purples to stay at the 45% soft cap and pound from melee... her heal has to hit in order to work.

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I have to disagree on the first two parts. I had no problem holding aggro with just Taunt and, as long as I had Sprint on, I could just run in a big circle and she only got in melee heal range of me once because I was a little careless. Immobs make it easier, certainly, but we had none on that team.

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I've lost aggro on GW to scrappers if I was only taunting and not also hitting her with a ranged attack; I've never lost aggro if I include an APP blast with Taunt. About staying out of melee with her; yeah I can do it if she isn't immob'd, even with my Stone tanker. The problem lies in the rest of the team having to keep chasing after her... no big issue for blasters but a nuisance for melee toons.

It just struck me as easier and faster for a team of scrappers to eat a few purps to stay at 45% and not worry about her heal. Certainly easier than a hit her, chase her down, hit her, chase her again... cue Benny Hill music


COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes

 

Posted

I've tanked Recluse on my Dm/Shield scrapper. At the time I was loaded with tier 3's Oranges, Purples, and Greens.

However we had a Cold and a Sonic who kept shields on me, but no outside healing. The Sonic shields (not the big bubble) can be replaced by large oranges. (I used the wedding temp and tier 9 when it was up, no Archmage yet) To keep my S/L resistance capped at 75%. The Cold kept me at 75 ish % defense, which could be replaced by a large purple every so often on a soft capped shields. I think you want around 80% defense for him to regularly miss.

I used a summoned bane or whatever I could get near to hit to siphon life as often as possible to keep my HP going up. Greens were there for mainly emergency use.

After the red and blue towers went down I pretty much stopped using Insps. Its definitely doable with no outside support as I had at least half my inspirations left by the time the rest of the team joined in the fight.

Scrapper also had a little over 2200 HP. I'd probably say a Shield, Inv or maybe WP scrapper could pull it off if built right. Worst case, have one inspiration load for the red tower, have another load for the blue tower, after that he should be manageable.

Ghost Widow shouldn't be a problem. Normal to hit check on her heal and hold. Just keep purps coming. Same with Mako and elude. Might take a few trips to SG bases or WW though.