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merits and tickets considerably undermine this logic.
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I think "considerably" is something of an overstatement. If you set out to equip your character with merits you're going to spend considerably longer doing so than if you use the market. What merits do in theory is damp the high-end pricing of items. Amusingly, prices on most high-priced recipies you can obtain with merits are currently back where they were before merits were introduced or higher.
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whatever other gameplay goals they serve, they absolutely were designed as an end-around the market and it's "ridiculous" valuations of certain goods.
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I do not believe this was their intent. Merits were not created to "fix" high prices, but to address the concern of players who did not want to be "forced" to interact with the market. Certainly it is impossible to fully extricate dislike of the market from dislike of "high" prices, but I think the distaste is as much directed at the various concepts of playing "city of day traders," of being "gouged" by other players, or of market PvP than the inability to actually pay the prices found there. In other words, merits were intended to bypass the market mini-game. Bypassing "ridiculous" prices was simply a by-product of that.
Tickets undermine the logic only for non-common salvage. For set recipies, they are simply an alternative random supply.
In any case, neither tickets not merits appears likely at this time to provide purples, PvP IOs, or HOs. I could envision purples and HOs appearing at merit vendors someday, but I do not believe PvP IOs will ever be available there. I could imagine a PvP-only variant, however - some sort of bounty-like system.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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So certain customers are expendable?
[/ QUOTE ]
Do you really need me to confirm that for you?
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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# Fixed PvP rewards to function once again. Now, influence, inspirations, and other normal rewards occur on every PvP kill, while PvP IO recipes can only be rewarded on rep-valid kills.
# Fixed rep-validation to function in arenas, even though it doesn't give you any reputation in arenas.
# Also lowering the rep timer from 10 minutes to 5 minutes.
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OK I get it now, you only get rep once every 5 minutes if you kill before then the timer gets reset. this means only 6 kills per arena match can generate PVP IOs in a 1vs1
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I guess I'm not familiar with this rep-validation timer then. From what you say, I get the impression that continuously killing someone in the arena will result in only 1 chance for a drop since all the other kills reset some timer? Further, if you wait 5 mins between kills (let's say 5 mins and 10 seconds to be safe) you only get 5 kills per arena match that can potentially drop an IO? And the drop rate is in the neighborhood of 1 in 75-100 according to my testing...this would mean that PvP IO's get even rarer than they already are. This seems counter-intuitive to me.
[/ QUOTE ]
makes sense to me. you kill people in zone then you kill another person etc.. the timer will rarely kick in. in arena farming you're screwed. Elegant
[/ QUOTE ]
Unless you can triple box...
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
I am not quite sure I am following everyone.
From my experience in PvP, under the tab showing your reputation value, you can have an incredibly long list of players you cannot kill due to the time restriction.
Killing one person, then moving to another only adds that second person to your list.
So, now you have:
UberGuy: 4:37
Nethergoat: 4:59
Killing Swell only puts him at a fresh five minutes while the others countdown.
"I do it better than anybody you've ever seen do it.
The screams from the haters, it's got a nice ring to it.
I guess every super hero needs his theme music .."
Lucky for me, I think I have a few PvP IOs sitting in my base storage, and I have a few characters who've got some sitting in their inventories thanks to drops. However, this does mean I'll need to rethink some of my potential future PvP builds, because many of the PvP IOs will likely become prohibitively expensive.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
[ QUOTE ]
I am not quite sure I am following everyone.
From my experience in PvP, under the tab showing your reputation value, you can have an incredibly long list of players you cannot kill due to the time restriction.
Killing one person, then moving to another only adds that second person to your list.
So, now you have:
UberGuy: 4:37
Nethergoat: 4:59
Killing Swell only puts him at a fresh five minutes while the others countdown.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think the points are that:
1. In low pop servers there may be only 3 players
2. What if Uber or Goat kill you? It restarts the timer, correct?
So MY argument is that new players to PVP are given a HUGE disadvantage as compared to players with PVP IOs. Bascially, if you make the assumption that the player with the PVP IO gets the first kill then they will be getting MORE PVP IOs. Seems like a catch-22. If you have PVP IOs then you can have more. If not then you don't get any ...
I just don't see why somone killing ME should start a timer for ME. I should be rewarded if I hunt him down and repay him the favor - IMHO.
I agree with your last statement, but it was done to prevent alternating kills, which would be simple in that scenario.
You can hunt him down in five minutes.
"I do it better than anybody you've ever seen do it.
The screams from the haters, it's got a nice ring to it.
I guess every super hero needs his theme music .."
<QR>
There's been a lot of good discusion in this thread but I really don't think anyone addressed my point yet. With these changes, PO's will be much much more rare than before. We can only assume that this was the devs' intent, but why bother?
1 - They're not THAT good, compared to say purples. Why should they be more rare?
2 - Prices on the market will only skyrocket (oh how I kick myself for selling that IO for ONLY 600m now!!) if you can even find one.
3 - Farmers will still farm but with different strategies and they'll make a lot more money doing it.
I just don't see any of these changes as positive. What is the intended positive outcome of these changes?
I understand your points about not crying for the farmer. I understand that you think these shouldn't be farmable. But I don't think anyone has argued against the fact that the supply will sharply decrease.
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<QR>
There's been a lot of good discusion in this thread but I really don't think anyone addressed my point yet. With these changes, PO's will be much much more rare than before. We can only assume that this was the devs' intent, but why bother?
1 - They're not THAT good, compared to say purples. Why should they be more rare?
2 - Prices on the market will only skyrocket (oh how I kick myself for selling that IO for ONLY 600m now!!) if you can even find one.
3 - Farmers will still farm but with different strategies and they'll make a lot more money doing it.
I just don't see any of these changes as positive. What is the intended positive outcome of these changes?
I understand your points about not crying for the farmer. I understand that you think these shouldn't be farmable. But I don't think anyone has argued against the fact that the supply will sharply decrease.
[/ QUOTE ]
Point 1- Yes they are. At least the Heal set and one other offer 7.5% recharge in PVE and since they act just like purples you get that 7.5 always.
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Point 1- Yes they are. At least the Heal set and one other offer 7.5% recharge in PVE and since they act just like purples you get that 7.5 always.
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I was under the impression that they acted different from normal ones by TURNING OFF if you exemped at all, which made it pointless to farm anything below 50.
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Point 1- Yes they are. At least the Heal set and one other offer 7.5% recharge in PVE and since they act just like purples you get that 7.5 always.
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I was under the impression that they acted different from normal ones by TURNING OFF if you exemped at all, which made it pointless to farm anything below 50.
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Nope; full level 1 exemplar!
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Point 1- Yes they are. At least the Heal set and one other offer 7.5% recharge in PVE and since they act just like purples you get that 7.5 always.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was under the impression that they acted different from normal ones by TURNING OFF if you exemped at all, which made it pointless to farm anything below 50.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope; full level 1 exemplar!
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This directly contradicts what I was told before. Can anyone please confirm?
And if so, why aren't they purple...or even some new rarer color?
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Point 1- Yes they are. At least the Heal set and one other offer 7.5% recharge in PVE and since they act just like purples you get that 7.5 always.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was under the impression that they acted different from normal ones by TURNING OFF if you exemped at all, which made it pointless to farm anything below 50.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope; full level 1 exemplar!
[/ QUOTE ]
This directly contradicts what I was told before. Can anyone please confirm?
And if so, why aren't they purple...or even some new rarer color?
[/ QUOTE ]
tested and double tested by marketeers yesterday.
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<QR>
There's been a lot of good discusion in this thread but I really don't think anyone addressed my point yet. With these changes, PO's will be much much more rare than before. We can only assume that this was the devs' intent, but why bother?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because they love PvP'rs.
See i13.
To the rest: Who says any outcome has to be positive?
"I do it better than anybody you've ever seen do it.
The screams from the haters, it's got a nice ring to it.
I guess every super hero needs his theme music .."
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Nope; full level 1 exemplar!
[/ QUOTE ]
This directly contradicts what I was told before. Can anyone please confirm?
And if so, why aren't they purple...or even some new rarer color?
[/ QUOTE ]
tested and double tested by marketeers yesterday.
[/ QUOTE ]
Haha, no offense but I meant someone BESIDES you. I already know what you think about it. :P
Nope, they act like purples. You get them no matter what level you exemp to. It is somewhat pointless to farm lower level ones, because the higher give higher Enhancement bonuses while providing the same set bonuses. The only benefit to lower level ones is you can slot them earlier, but PvP IOs are more of a "final build" type of thing.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
Okay well then. I still don't think they're as good as purples since they bonuses they give aren't as good (neither the regular effect nor the set bonuses) yet they're about to be much more rare than purples.
Some off-the-cuff math: Old drop rate ~1/100 kills, ~50kills per 30 mins = ~1 drop per hour. New drop rate ~1/100 kills, ~5 kills per 30 mins = ~10 hours per drop. This assuming you're fighting one person.
Assuming you kill at 30 secs per kill, you could have 10 people (or more, but 10 is the theoretical minimum to hit cap) help you to get back to the old maximum drop rate of one per hour.
This assumes you're in a controlled environment where you really are getting 1 kill per 30s. If you're in a pvp zone, things are far less controlled and that rate seems particularly...optimistic. This cancels out the fact that there are (in theory) more than 10 people in the pvp zone at a time. In addition, you have to hope that nobody killed them within the last 5 mins.
I just don't see the supply doing anything but dropping drastically. These are already rarer than purples and, tho similar and better than normal set IO's, they're not as good as purples with their Superior bonuses. My point is still valid I think. Why do the devs want the drop rate so low?
They just want them to not be farmable - drop rate, availability, and price be damned.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
[ QUOTE ]
They just want them to not be farmable - drop rate, availability, and price be damned.
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What they should do is make them available to be bought somewhere ... increase supply = decreased profit = less farming. Only way to stop farming is to make it not as profitable.
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These are already rarer than purples and, tho similar and better than normal set IO's, they're not as good as purples with their Superior bonuses. My point is still valid I think. Why do the devs want the drop rate so low?
[/ QUOTE ]
Purples have been out for four issues.
And, what's the approximation for purples? One every three thousand kills?
"I do it better than anybody you've ever seen do it.
The screams from the haters, it's got a nice ring to it.
I guess every super hero needs his theme music .."
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
These are already rarer than purples and, tho similar and better than normal set IO's, they're not as good as purples with their Superior bonuses. My point is still valid I think. Why do the devs want the drop rate so low?
[/ QUOTE ]
Purples have been out for four issues.
And, what's the approximation for purples? One every three thousand kills?
[/ QUOTE ] Yes but not everyone PVPs and all kills have a chance for drops in PvE, right? I see what your saying but think they aren't quite comparable.
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These are already rarer than purples and, tho similar and better than normal set IO's, they're not as good as purples with their Superior bonuses. My point is still valid I think. Why do the devs want the drop rate so low?
[/ QUOTE ]
Purples have been out for four issues.
And, what's the approximation for purples? One every three thousand kills?
[/ QUOTE ]
How many people PvE?
How many people PvP?
See where I'm going here? Regular PvPers take up something like 5% of the CoX community. The drops rate was already low in zones. I PvP a lot and I've had maybe half a dozen drop for me. I see the restrictions in this patch doing nothing more then making them close to nonexistent.
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They just want them to not be farmable - drop rate, availability, and price be damned.
[/ QUOTE ]
What they should do is make them available to be bought somewhere ... increase supply = decreased profit = less farming. Only way to stop farming is to make it not as profitable.
[/ QUOTE ]
They aren't looking to stop farming though they would love it if people would. They are simply looking to make it harder and thereby reduce it without increasing the supply to do so.
They want them to be rare but they want most of them to be earned "in the proper way".
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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They just want them to not be farmable - drop rate, availability, and price be damned.
[/ QUOTE ]
What they should do is make them available to be bought somewhere ... increase supply = decreased profit = less farming. Only way to stop farming is to make it not as profitable.
[/ QUOTE ]
They aren't looking to stop farming though they would love it if people would. They are simply looking to make it harder and thereby reduce it without increasing the supply to do so.
They want them to be rare but they want most of them to be earned "in the proper way".
[/ QUOTE ]
I see your point, so this isn't directed at you. But this is a BAD case of "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink." People aren't gonna pvp if they don't want to pvp. People want the drops tho. This is just gonna piss them off.
I see the dilemma they think they're in...they want people to pvp so they give cool pvp drops, but then people farm teh drops and they're still not pvping. That should be a big neon sign that they're doing it wrong. In a game about super heroes, where people constantly complain about anything that isn't superhero-like (e.g. the market), do they really think pvp is just gonna take off?? The goal of getting more people into pvp is stupid...that's not what the game is about and it's not their strength...bad strategic move. But they've already put their foot in it with the PO's and they can't take em back. They need to be trying to deal with them separately from the issue of getting more people into pvp.
So yeah, maybe they just don't want any more of those in game and they're hoping they die off a slow death. *shrug* It may sound like hubris or something, but I don't think that just because they're a video game company etc etc that they've necessarily thought thru all their decisions before implementing them. I've seen way too many MMO's screwed up by the nerf bat to give the devs the benefit of the doubt.
I'm referring to the second half of the comment:
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I'd be shocked if the devs saw "outrageous" prices on certain stuff and took it as a sign of something they should fix.
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maybe they do want PvP IO's to be like purples.
But they absolutely have seen "outrageous" prices on certain stuff and decided to 'fix' them.
Maybe Purples and PvP IOs will be purchaseable with Pratorean Codpieces, or whatever new currency they flop out with Going Rogue.
I don't think that's very likely, but then again I recall lots of us discounting the possibility of end-arounds like merits and tickets because some things were "supposed" to be expensive.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone