INV/Fire
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As far as primaries go, I'm considering Ice, Invul and Shields. I've always loved Ice but with exotic damage holes, positional Defense it seems at a bit of disadvantage late game.
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Shields is positional defense, inv & ice are both typed.
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Alright Tanker gurus, back from a haitus(i12) and am just looking for something new to have fun with, while still being effective without going bonkers with Inventions-Don't have the time to invest in them anymore.
As far as primaries go, I'm considering Ice, Invul and Shields. I've always loved Ice but with exotic damage holes, positional Defense it seems at a bit of disadvantage late game. Invul I have little experience with but am willing to give it a go. Shields is something I'm not completely sold on but it seems to have better overall Defense than Ice with an offensive nature, yet my test version from closed beta doesn't seem to hold up as well as my Icer did.
That said, I need something that can solo well as well as team, PuG's through TF's of all sorts, without giving up too much damage, won't break the bank and is ultimately fun. No Energy Melee and would rather not do SS.
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Inv/SS was my favorite Tanker combo until recently. I levelled up an Shields / Dark Melee and it has quickly gotten favorite status.
Good survivability (not quite as tough as my Inv but much tougher then my Icer and about equal to my WP Tanker) and amazing damage.
If you want something fun and a little exotic, give it a whirl.
Otherwise I agree with the poster above me in Inv/Fire.
I loved Inv/Stone, but soloing early on can be a chore. Shield/Dark is fantastic as Kruunch said, I'm rolling one up currently, and I'm having a blast.
If you want a weapon? I've always heard that Ice/Mace is a pretty great build, capable of fighting everything at least pretty well, and you do get 14% "resistance" to all damage types in range of CE as far as I remember, so that's a plus, and mace has decent mitigation.
I dunno; the attraction of Shield/Dark seems to be that you can get multiple damage bonuses. I feel more attracted to making a Scrapper if I'm looking for big damage numbers.
But I'm inexperienced with Shields on either AT. How's the feel (fun, tough enough?) of Shields as a Tanker set?
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
The nice thing of Shields/DM is that it plays like a Scrapper but is as tough as a Tanker.
Basically you get the advantages of a Fire/Fire Tanker without the squishiness.
Shields being a defense set plays similarly to Ice in that you can be crushed by the random number generator at times. Unlike the utility of Ice, Shields is more offensive oriented with a damage buff aura and Shield Charge (amazing AOE).
The utility factor is made up in Dark Melee with Siphon Life (plugs the heal hole ... 20% heal every 3-4 seconds on a well built version), Dark Consumption (one of your AOEs and endurance recovery) and Soul Drain (aoe dmg, build up effect that stacks nicely with Shield's damage buff aura) and finally the secondary effects of DM being toHitDebuff which layer across Shield's defense based primary extremely well.
So basically what you get is a complete Tanker with few holes and a lot of fire power. One of the mainstays of the offensive power of DM is using Shadow Maul properly to hit multiple targets. This is being "fixed" next issue (not sure if its a max target fix or geometry fix at this point) and I'm not sure how this will effect the offensive capabilities of the set but we'll see.
Don't get me wrong ... you won't confuse this for a Stone or Inv Tanker. But on the upside, you won't go down as fast as a Fire Tanker either.
And doing 400+ damage Shield Charges every 30 seconds is flat out fun 
P.S. - I have a Shields/WM Tanker too (L27 currently) who is a powerhouse offensively but feels clunky and squishy compared to my SD/DM. I think DM specifically makes Shields shine as an all round Tanker set imo.
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I think DM specifically makes Shields shine as an all round Tanker set imo.
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Why don't you go home and get your shine box!
Honestly, I hope it's a geometry fix. This would affect my flying cone defenders!
I hope whatever the fix is, that I can still hit up to five targets. Anything less then that and combined with the animation time of Shadow Maul, really starts to impact the damage potential of the set with the other AOEs being on such long recharge timers.
As a single target set, DM would be just meh (although it's utility would still be awesome).
I guess I'm unfamiliar with this whole issue. If I recall correctly, Shadow Maul and its cousin, Sands of Mu, look like they're limited to 5 targets in City of Data; I've never hit more than 5 myself -- nor met anyone in-game who expected more than 5. "Oooh, all five hit!" is sometimes bragged in team chat.
I also have missed any references (outside of Shadow Maul discussions) to an upcoming fix/change/nerf to cones, either Dark Melee only or to all cones gamewide.
Can you direct me to the discussion of said change?
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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I guess I'm unfamiliar with this whole issue. If I recall correctly, Shadow Maul and its cousin, Sands of Mu, look like they're limited to 5 targets in City of Data; I've never hit more than 5 myself -- nor met anyone in-game who expected more than 5. "Oooh, all five hit!" is sometimes bragged in team chat.
I also have missed any references (outside of Shadow Maul discussions) to an upcoming fix/change/nerf to cones, either Dark Melee only or to all cones gamewide.
Can you direct me to the discussion of said change?
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Release Notes for 19.20090612.0 - 6/16/09 (Test)
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Fixed a bug where cones could hit significantly more enemies than intended.
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That is to address 'cone warping' as Dersk posted about here. I gave it a brief whirl on Test, and I could still hit multiple mobs easily with SM. I might not hit as many as I do as frequently, but if if you're aware of the cone angle/size, you'll still be hitting 3 without trouble. If you stood flatfooted without repositioning, then you'll won't notice any difference whatsoever.
THoughts:
1. Ice/ tank. If you dont have much tank experience, I recommend ice. ice has EA, which will allow your beloved blue bar to be everful. ice/anything is good, but I recommend taking advantage of it to get ice/stone or ice/fire. WP/ and Ice/ are best endurance wise, thats why I recommend those for new tanks. I dont know if you have 50 or 0 tanks before.
If you have massive cash, you can slot the armors with LoTG and get massive recharge and regen. Massive influence build, you can build VERY heavily on recharge (I have 65% on my ice/em build, no purples, no hasten). Hoarfrost is about 15-20 seconds from perma. Plus, ice tanks can get 100% recharge/slow protection.
2. Shield/ - Positional defense, easier to soft cap than ice, esp by 6 slotting your attacks. I have noticed its more survivable against fire/psi opponents (e.g. fir bolg), but I find ice/ more survivable against other opponents. Shield charge is fun!
I have a shield/mace, and my greatest concern is endurance (i'm still leveling). Since shield has respectable resistance (ok SL resistance, more than invul other resistance types), and its easy to cap defense, for a heavy IO build, shield/ usually has more survivable potential than ice/ (notice I said heavy IO build. straight SO build, I'd go ice). Plus you have +dam.
shield/ss, ohhhhh!
3. Invul/ - your best mitigation/defense is invinciblity which requires you to keep mobs in melee range. If you love to jump around and run from foe to foe, you wont get the same benefit as standing in the middle of a massive group. Except for granite, you can SL resist cap invul/ with tough. You can softcap your defenses (with some difficulty) or just SL defense (easily). Imho, only WP has better heavy IO set potential than invul/ (since WP has so much regen). Most IO bonuses for resistance are worthless (unless your a granite, then you can cap fire/ice/dark), but the defense bonuses are very liberal.
Thus, I think invul/ has the most survival build for expensive/heavy IO set bonus potential. From an SO only build, I barely rank invul/ ahead of ice/.
Just a rough approximation.
50 Tanks: Invul/ss, Fire/ice/fire, Ice/em, Stone/fire
WP/Stone, dark/dark, shld/mace
50 Other: WS, SS/dark/sc brute, BS/Regen/WM scrpr, fire/fire/force blaster, rad/kin corr, mind/rad ctrl, ill/storm cntrl
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I guess I'm unfamiliar with this whole issue. If I recall correctly, Shadow Maul and its cousin, Sands of Mu, look like they're limited to 5 targets in City of Data; I've never hit more than 5 myself -- nor met anyone in-game who expected more than 5. "Oooh, all five hit!" is sometimes bragged in team chat.
I also have missed any references (outside of Shadow Maul discussions) to an upcoming fix/change/nerf to cones, either Dark Melee only or to all cones gamewide.
Can you direct me to the discussion of said change?
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Release Notes for 19.20090612.0 - 6/16/09 (Test)
[ QUOTE ]
Fixed a bug where cones could hit significantly more enemies than intended.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is to address 'cone warping' as Dersk posted about here. I gave it a brief whirl on Test, and I could still hit multiple mobs easily with SM. I might not hit as many as I do as frequently, but if if you're aware of the cone angle/size, you'll still be hitting 3 without trouble. If you stood flatfooted without repositioning, then you'll won't notice any difference whatsoever.
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Could you hit more then 3 at any point?
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I guess I'm unfamiliar with this whole issue. If I recall correctly, Shadow Maul and its cousin, Sands of Mu, look like they're limited to 5 targets in City of Data; I've never hit more than 5 myself -- nor met anyone in-game who expected more than 5. "Oooh, all five hit!" is sometimes bragged in team chat.
I also have missed any references (outside of Shadow Maul discussions) to an upcoming fix/change/nerf to cones, either Dark Melee only or to all cones gamewide.
Can you direct me to the discussion of said change?
[/ QUOTE ]
Release Notes for 19.20090612.0 - 6/16/09 (Test)
[ QUOTE ]
Fixed a bug where cones could hit significantly more enemies than intended.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is to address 'cone warping' as Dersk posted about here. I gave it a brief whirl on Test, and I could still hit multiple mobs easily with SM. I might not hit as many as I do as frequently, but if if you're aware of the cone angle/size, you'll still be hitting 3 without trouble. If you stood flatfooted without repositioning, then you'll won't notice any difference whatsoever.
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Could you hit more then 3 at any point?
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Yep (that screenshot is around I13 iirc). Most times, the key (even on Test now) is movement. If you just stand in one place while surrounded, then you won't hit be landing any fatty mauls. When aiming cones I tend to move around a lot and aim to hit as many as I can. Hitting 5 used to be very rare, but it was no longer nearly as hard to do when the cone was extended to 7ft.
[edit: Yeah, I know, Romans are easy mode for melee cones. They prefer melee and are small, so you can squeeze a lot of them in very little area.]
Invy/Stone
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
Shield/DM! It has no holes, a self-heal, a tohit check recovery power, and plenty of ST damage. Just remember to grab Taunt early to hold aggro and you'll be set.
Too many alts to list.
I meant could you hit more then 3 on test.
Trying to determine if their fix was geometry or max target cap.
But good to know they didn't totally obliterate Shadow Maul (and similar cones) ... of course it wouldn't have been the first character of mine the devs ended up neutering 
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I meant could you hit more then 3 on test.
Trying to determine if their fix was geometry or max target cap.
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Ahh, it's not a target cap change, I have hit 5 targets with it on Test. Besides, Castle confirmed it was a fix for the 'cone warp' due to movement:
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Fixed a bug where cones could hit significantly more enemies than intended.
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Could we get some clarification on what, exactly, this means? Were cone powers hitting more than the target cap, cones being a larger size than intended, the 'cone warp' due to movement?
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The 'cone warp' due to movement.
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Source
Ah thank you very much.
As long as you can hit up to 5 targets then Shadow Maul will continue to shine in the SD/DM build I think.
P.S. - Try Shadow Maul with Hover ... I think you'll be pleasantly surprised
Shields/Super Strength.
Don't see how DM is "amazing damage", but then I've only gotten one to 35 or so and think the damage is craptastic. Long recharging AoE "attacks" and a single target high damage immobilize... how is the damage anything above mediocre?
You're playing the set wrong if you're using those descriptors for it.
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
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Shields/Super Strength.
Don't see how DM is "amazing damage", but then I've only gotten one to 35 or so and think the damage is craptastic. Long recharging AoE "attacks" and a single target high damage immobilize... how is the damage anything above mediocre?
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First off the damage in the set really doesn't take off for Tankers until the low 40s due to the build schedule and probably how you are going to end up slotting (not to mention IO sets).
Second I never said that DM will outshine SS (although I think it's very close when talking about packs of mobs) *BUT* DM plugs all of Shield's holes whereas SS doesn't (heal, end recovery and toHitDebuff) which means that an SD/DM will never be as squishy as an equivelant SD/SS and that's the key here.
lol, my threads turned into a Dark Melee fight.
Thanks for some input. Rolling up an Invul/Fire for now. My Tanking experience is actually better than average for those who questioned. I played Ice/EM for quite a while but deleted it after the EM 'fixes'. Also done Stone Armor(easy, boring) and a bit with WP and FA.
Alright Tanker gurus, back from a haitus(i12) and am just looking for something new to have fun with, while still being effective without going bonkers with Inventions-Don't have the time to invest in them anymore.
As far as primaries go, I'm considering Ice, Invul and Shields. I've always loved Ice but with exotic damage holes, positional Defense it seems at a bit of disadvantage late game. Invul I have little experience with but am willing to give it a go. Shields is something I'm not completely sold on but it seems to have better overall Defense than Ice with an offensive nature, yet my test version from closed beta doesn't seem to hold up as well as my Icer did.
That said, I need something that can solo well as well as team, PuG's through TF's of all sorts, without giving up too much damage, won't break the bank and is ultimately fun. No Energy Melee and would rather not do SS.